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Do We Need More Haters? Why is SST Using Bun? And Does Adam Need Drugs?

/ 01:11:47/E78
Adam:

I might be a little sick.

Dax:

Oh, man. I was

Adam:

trying so hard Oh. To,

Dax:

You don't sound good.

Adam:

Yeah. I was trying so hard to deny it.

Dax:

Good luck.

Adam:

Casey, she has this thing with, like, just how powerful your mind is. You know? And, like, she thinks I have an especially powerful mind. I convinced myself I'm sick. So she has this whole routine she goes through when she starts feeling symptoms and, like, telling yourself it's just it's allergies.

Adam:

It's fine. So I did the whole routine for a couple of days and I thought it went away. And then I was like, so psyched that I used the power of my mind to not be sick. And then I woke up this morning, and my throat feels awful, and I can't talk.

Dax:

So I do believe in that stuff, if I'm being honest. Yeah. Okay. So I'm gonna say a bunch of stuff. I'm sure someone will listen to and be like, that's not accurate, but whatever.

Dax:

I'm just gonna say it anyway. I have heard that paramedics are trained when they're, like let's say that someone's in an accident and they're, like, hurt and maybe unconscious. When they're moving them into the ambulance and, like, around them, not to say stuff like this person's fucked or, like, they're definitely not gonna make it.

Adam:

Well, yeah. That would be bad.

Dax:

Because I think I've heard that there's a research that shows that subconsciously if you hear that, that actually has a good impact on your outcome. Wow. Because at the end of the day, like, your body it's not like external stuff that's healing your body. It's your body healing your own body. Yeah.

Dax:

And some part of that is controlled by I mean, it's like a complex emergent system, of course, but, like, yeah, part of me, like, believes there's some some tie with, like, the conscious and not conscious part of you.

Adam:

It's kinda wild when you think about your body, like, all the things that your active brain don't control. Oh, yeah. Doesn't control. Yeah. Like just all the autonomous systems and things happening.

Adam:

And like how there like, what there's, like, in your gut even, is there there's

Dax:

something about, like The gut bacteria?

Adam:

Well, like, there's the bacteria. But then there's there's also this idea that, like, it's not just what is it that's in your brain? It's not only in your brain? Neurons? Is that what it is?

Dax:

Because I I

Adam:

Something like

Dax:

There's, like, a cluster of them, like, the 2nd largest cluster is, like, in your gut or something. Is it something like that?

Adam:

It's like

Dax:

I don't know. I'm making stuff up.

Adam:

It's this idea that not all, like, messages come from your brain. I used to think, like, everything in your body is being controlled by signals from your brain, but, like, lots of different parts of your body actually make their own decisions and kind of, like, act on their own. Is that true?

Dax:

The the other thing with that is, like, the gut bacteria also, like, that's also communicating to your brain and asking for things. And that's, like, not you technically, but it is you. And I, like, like I mean, the the thing with sugar, like, people talk about sugar. I mean, I've experienced it myself. Like, if you start eating a bunch of sugar, your, like, sugar addiction, like, really starts going up.

Dax:

Yeah. And I I I think that's just from the bacteria in your gut that's, like, demanding more and more of it. And if you stop eating sugar cold turkey for, like, 3 days, it just all goes away. So it's so weird that this conscious part of your brain like, sometimes I'll just be, like, zoning out and walking around my house. Next thing I know, like like, there's something sweet in my hand and I'm eating it.

Dax:

And I don't really remember, like, me doing that. And, yeah, something like mind controlled me from from my gut. Really weird.

Adam:

We're not really one living organism, are we? We're like a legion of living organisms. We're like a host to all of these things that like, the gut microbiome is nuts. I wanna talk about the food psychology thing that you saying that reminded me. There was, like, I don't know, 3, 4 months ago, I tweeted something about, like, struggling with food psychology and just that my wife and I feel like half of our, like, daily struggle is just food and having to I mean, there's, like, the logistics of it that are painful, having to make it, clean it up, whatever, all the preparing and being in the kitchen and doing all that.

Adam:

But just the food psychology part where we feel like we've constantly battled just like eating for fun or boredom or stress or whatever we're dealing with. And I tweeted something about like, hey, anybody have solutions? And everybody's like, what are you talking about? Food's easy. And I felt so alone.

Adam:

I sound like I'm crying. Oh, this is bad. This may or may not make it under our podcast feed. No.

Dax:

I definitely have to make it. This is hilarious.

Adam:

Okay. Yeah. I just remember, like, not a lot of people seem to resonate with this idea of, like, the difficulty of food psychology and just, like, eating the things you need and not just for funsies, because I feel like so much of my eating is probably unnecessary, and that's been a constant struggle. Do you feel is that a struggle? Like, the sugar addiction thing is what made me think of this because we definitely struggle with getting into sugar.

Dax:

I can definitely relate to some of it. I don't think it manifests for me the exact same way. I think I'm not someone that has a habit of just eating all the time. Like, if anything, I forget to eat all the time. Like, I've eaten anything today.

Dax:

Yeah. When I'm working I do. Yeah. Exactly. So I don't think I have that habit of of eating.

Dax:

But I'll go through periods of time where I'm like it always starts off the same where, like, we'll have you know what? I think we're starting it. I think the period's starting right now. Because Liz was like, I'm gonna make a cake. And she made a cake, and it's a big cake.

Dax:

It's a big chocolate cake, and it's really good. And I literally had it for breakfast yesterday. It starts off with something like that. And then I just start eating it

Adam:

every day.

Dax:

And then I just get used to, like, pretty much having access to something sweet, like, whenever I need it. Yeah. So for me, it's always

Adam:

Yeah. Like, at the end of every day for me, it's like I have to end on,

Dax:

like, the sweet or something. Yeah. Sweet. But like that, It's not like it stays, like, flat. Like, I just start doing more and more and more.

Dax:

And then it gets to the kind of, like, a weird place. But the fix is so easy for me. I just discovered it. Like, it's very easy for me just to go cold turkey for 3 or 4 days, and then I just go back to back to normal. So that part I can relate to the, okay, I'm, like, not really in control of what's happening in relation to food.

Dax:

And I'm sure that manifests for you in, like, a different way.

Adam:

I don't know. I feel like it's first world problems. It's like the abundance of food that we have in our society, creates all these different struggles. I feel like if I just talk like this, if I just talk in this register, you can't really tell that I'm sick. I'm gonna try to maintain.

Dax:

I feel there's some kind of podcast hosts that talk about it on purpose all the time.

Adam:

Yeah. Just monotone like this. Just all Is

Dax:

it monotone? It's like a whisper.

Adam:

Crime podcast where they're, like, talking about this file that they dug up from the local

Dax:

Yeah. I think that's what it is.

Adam:

Sheriff's department. And you would not believe that's still a

Dax:

lot of true crime podcasts. I haven't listened to any. It's don't you guys get, like, really scared? Like, doesn't that, like, work up your paranoia at all? Me, who do

Adam:

you guys?

Dax:

Just all the people that listen to true crime stuff. I really get it.

Adam:

So it's for me, it it started with, serial.

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

And I've just been chasing that experience. It's like meth. It's like the first time you do it. It's the highest high, and then you're just chasing that for the rest of your life. I'm just chasing the serial experience.

Adam:

I'll never get there again. But the it made me think maybe it's a genre. Maybe I just need to listen to more true crime stuff, and I'll find something that engages me like serial that nope. It's it's Sarah Koenig. It's her storytelling.

Adam:

I don't know if I've talked about this on the podcast before, but it's just anything she does, I think, is what I really am into. But, yeah, I've listened to a bunch of true crime. Don't get scared, I guess. Nothing about serial scared me about a high school drama turned murder. I don't know.

Adam:

Yeah. I don't get scared about true crime stuff.

Dax:

Yeah. I I can see why the serial story maybe isn't necessarily scary, but, but Alan visited me a few weeks ago, and we were talking about how he goes on these, like, really crazy rabbit holes with true crime. So, 1, listening to true crime stuff, but also it's, like, reading, like

Adam:

Oh, the Wikipedia stuff. Yeah.

Dax:

Describe I forgot what he was describing, but it was always like he was like, yeah, I was on Wikipedia, and I was reading about this serial killer. And he did all this crazy stuff. But then there was a link on the Wikipedia article to this other guy who actually did even more crazy stuff. And I clicked on that. And then I think he just kept going and going and going.

Dax:

And then, like, you know, he's he's out, he's, like, mostly from the city, but, like, you know, when he's visit he's he's in Maine now. He's in the middle of nowhere and it can be kinda creepy. So, like, yeah, like, I'm not surprised that he's, like, you know, imagining all this crazy stuff happening to him 1 year lead and all that stuff.

Adam:

Yeah. I I just finished a podcast, actually. I think I know I didn't get scared, but when you listen to some of this stuff, it's alarming that there are people that their brain works this way. Mhmm.

Dax:

So, like,

Adam:

it was about a serial killer. I can't remember now what it's called. It's about this serial killer from, like, the seventies, I think. But he had, like, a whole family, and they had no idea that he was, like, killing all these people. What's it called?

Adam:

Podcast Drew kind why am I doing this? I'm trying to find it. Not Barebrook. I did listen to some of that. But some of these podcasts really do have the most monotone voice ever.

Dax:

It's a serious topic.

Adam:

Yeah, I guess so.

Dax:

Can't really be like, you stabbed them 6 times in the study.

Adam:

But it takes away when, like, they just sound so boring. Like, you sound like a very boring person. You know? It was about this guy that that that just went into some of the stories of, like, the murders and just how cold and how, like, how could his brain just, like, be that way? How is that another human being?

Adam:

I don't know. That part sounds scary. It's just kind of, like, very dark to think about, psychopaths and all this.

Dax:

Have you killed any people?

Adam:

Have I killed any people?

Dax:

Like, as listening to that, does it make you wanna you know, is it making you curious?

Adam:

I don't know why that's so funny to me. Is it making me curious about killing people?

Dax:

Listen. Okay. Let me just explain the thought process here. At some point, I'm assuming you came across, Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg with their whole, like, jujitsu fight, and then you saw people, like, you know, doing jujitsu.

Adam:

They didn't do it though, did they?

Dax:

No. They didn't. But I'm assuming that was, like, something that caught your attention. And then you probably started watching some people do jiu jitsu. And then now you're, like, really into it and doing it like crazy.

Dax:

So it's not unreasonable for me to ask.

Adam:

For me to get curious just because I got into true crime podcast.

Dax:

Like, no. You're you're, like, I wanna be the number one serial killer. I wanna be a world class serial killer that's killed more people than anyone.

Adam:

Oh, man. It's too good. Because I see the connection. I see how you got there. I do get curious about things and then, yeah, wanna conquer them.

Adam:

This is not one though. I've not gotten curious about about a life of crime.

Dax:

Okay. Well, thought I'd ask. So speaking of people dying, do you see my poll the other day about people being born?

Adam:

Yeah. The 5,000,000,000 people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adam:

I want to ask you about that. I mean, I know the right answer.

Dax:

I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer, but I do feel there's a right perspective. And I posted that question so the the poll was and I and I kind of fudged the numbers a little bit, but when I was born, there was roughly 5,000,000,000 people on the Earth, and now there's, like, almost double. When you hear that, do you immediately feel like that's exciting, so much more opportunity, or do you feel like, oh, no. Like, so much less opportunity, so many more people I'm competing with. And I was curious to see what the split was, and I think it was, like, 6040.

Dax:

It was technically most people did feel, like, a positive way about that. But 40% of people felt negative. And to me, I would I would kinda hoping it would be, like, an 80 20 split or something.

Adam:

Like, more negative?

Dax:

No. I was hoping that most of it would feel more positive. Like, I think it shouldn't be. Like, I feel like that split.

Adam:

Yeah. I gotcha.

Dax:

Yeah. It's like I think I had this thought, like, a long time ago. I was like, man, there's always, like, the richest guy in the world and then somehow, like, someone surpasses them. And, like, how does it always happen? Like, how did Bill Gates become the rich?

Dax:

I mean, I think he's, like, in and out now, but there was a time where Bill Gates was the richest, like, forever. Like, ever since I could recall that he was the richest guy. And then at some point, Jeff Bezos, like, passed him, and I was, like, woah. How do you pass the richest guy? And at some point, I realized, like, oh, Jeff Bezos, this company is serving, like there's more people on the planet to, like, serve and do a service for.

Dax:

So, yeah, like, when the population doubles, like, it's gonna be even easier for someone to, like, surpass whatever whatever that is. And that's, like, the most naive way of looking at it, like, every person is, like, a little bit it's, like, more people in the world that, like, whatever service you're offering is more people you can you can offer that service. Whatever you need done, there's more people that are capable of doing it for you. And all the interconnectivity, like, that's all exponential as well. Yeah.

Dax:

So to me, I feel, like, very positive about that stuff, and I love population growth. And I, like, wanna, like, see there being more and more and more and more and more people. But I think a lot of people feel negative about it, and they see, like, a lot of problems somewhere. And they're like, this wouldn't be a problem if we only had half as many people.

Adam:

Is it is it, like, mostly, like, climate concerns that the most vocal

Dax:

group Yeah. It's it's it's stuff like that. But I like, you see it everywhere. Like, you know, people are are, like, oh, there's not enough housing, which is fair.

Adam:

Like, the

Dax:

housing has not kept up with population growth, but they, like, look at it as we need to, like, curb population. Yeah. But, like, it's it's just crazy because, like, with more people that exist, like, the better quality of life that goes up because we're just outputting more in nets.

Adam:

Yeah.

Dax:

So, like, our your life would just be a lot worse if there were, you know, less people in the world. But, yeah, I was curious to see what the response was. And, yeah, I think almost half people feel kinda negative about population.

Adam:

Yeah. I wonder I do wonder how many of like, I I would love to know the breakdown of why people feel that way. The people who feel negatively about like, is it is it a huge chunk of them or concerned about housing or the climate, or is it other stuff? Is it competition? Like, you feel like

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

There's more people competing for the same resources or something?

Dax:

Yeah. I think that definitely can be stressful. Like, sometimes I look at the stats and the number of software engineers there are and, like, I I can, like, kind of feel that way too. I'm like, holy shit. There's, like, millions of these developers.

Dax:

30,000,000, I think. Yeah. Yeah. It's because I did it definitely was not that high when I was first starting.

Adam:

When you were starting, there was only 5 developers. When you were born, there's only 5 developers. 5,000,000,000 people on earth and 5 developers.

Dax:

There's 5 developers. I was born. It was it was my dad was 1. Bill Gates was the other one. Yeah.

Dax:

John Carmack was the other one.

Adam:

Oh,

Dax:

wait. I get the immediate feeling of being negative, but I think overall, it's always been positive.

Adam:

Yeah. I just I remembered seeing yesterday a tweet from John Carmack. I just every time he tweets, I just love it. But it was something about his, like, visual studio IDE and debugging processes.

Dax:

Yeah. The history of, like, of what what he used and, like, what he was working on and what tools made sense for that. Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah. It's so funny that, like, he is the, like, the the granddaddy of us all. He's like does everybody look up to John Carmack? I'm a serial engineer programmer. Yeah.

Adam:

He's amazing. And he uses Visual Studio, and I feel like that should just make we should all just be using Visual Studio because we look up to John Carmack, but we don't. Somehow, he doesn't have that pull, that interest. I guess game dev is different. Game dev is different than it it's really interesting how those two worlds live separately, like game developers and, like, software developers.

Adam:

Yeah. Like, the ecosystem completely evolved separately. Like, do you know what I'm talking about? There's not a lot of crossover.

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

Feels like our our, like, cousins or something that we never see except Thanksgiving or whatever.

Dax:

Yeah. Did you, did we did I already talk about that Stardew Valley game, on here?

Adam:

Star what did you say? Stardew?

Dax:

It's called Stardew Valley. No. If you look it up, you might Never heard those words. Yeah. I mean, it it it's a okay.

Dax:

So it's a game made by 1 guy. Okay?

Adam:

Like Roller Coaster Tycoon?

Dax:

Yeah. Exactly similar. So he had the concepts for the game. He programs it. He makes all the artwork.

Dax:

He even makes all the music. He does everything. It's a one person company. I think it's sold, like, $400,000,000 worth. Wow.

Dax:

So imagine being this person and you can do everything. You can do the whole talk about full stack. You can do it all. Yeah. Every day you wake up, you literally have no one to report to.

Dax:

You don't have, like, perfect customers in a traditional sense. No, like, overhead employee, like, nothing. You're just there, and you just have, like, $400,000,000 sitting in your bank account. You have, like, generational wealth. Yeah.

Dax:

And I mean, like, again, the numbers might be wrong, but it's it's like some insane number like that. And it's, like, wow. That is really impressive. Like, game devs are super impressive. Like, I can definitely nail some parts of that game myself, but, like, I couldn't do the music, and I couldn't really do the art.

Dax:

But, yeah, they're, like, really multi talented.

Adam:

Are are people gonna are there gonna be developers that are like us? They're just normal developers, and then they become game devs because of AI? Like, they start generating assets with AI stuff?

Dax:

Yeah. I think so. That's, like, the biggest bottleneck for me. Like, I'm not I don't have that skill, and I don't really think my I don't think I can get that good at it either. Yeah.

Dax:

So I tried it. But, yeah, I think, yeah, that definitely lowers the the bar for people like me.

Adam:

Yeah. I'm feeling very uninteresting today. I'm sorry. They they took, like, all these vials on my blood. I'm sick.

Dax:

Wait. Did they take your blood because you were sick?

Adam:

No. No. No. No. It was unrelated.

Adam:

It's it's that Brian Johnson

Dax:

That's a bluebird thing. Yeah. About you.

Adam:

They're doing, like, baseline, Which I'm sick, so all my numbers are gonna be weird, I bet. Like

Dax:

That's why, you know, it's a large study.

Adam:

Yeah. There's 5,000 people. I'm terrible at it. I've done none of the checklist stuff we're supposed to, like, be ordering. Casey's, like, done all of her stuff, and she's like, have you signed up for an account on blueprint?

Adam:

I'm like, no. You have to order your Blueprint stack. I'm like, what? It's a Blueprint stack. There's all these steps, and I've done none of them.

Adam:

I'm terrible. I might not even do it. I don't know.

Dax:

Did you see that clip of his where he was talking about haters?

Adam:

No.

Dax:

Oh, man. It was so good. He was, like, the more and more I see this guy, the more and more I like him. Like, he just Yeah. I I just think he's likable.

Adam:

You know what? He's figuring out the Internet too.

Dax:

It's actually more than that. I actually think if you see him and you don't find him likable, it actually means that you're unlikable. That's like the Oh. That that that Interesting. I feel strong enough about this.

Dax:

If you don't find him, like, interesting and entertaining and, you don't like him, like, I don't like you probably. There's a lot of people

Adam:

that don't like him. So there's a

Dax:

lot of people

Adam:

that you don't like.

Dax:

I like that because it's, like, a very good filter. It's a very clear filter.

Adam:

Interesting.

Dax:

But he was, like, very calmly talking about haters and, like, dig really genuine it sounded really genuine, really passionate. He was, like, I love haters. Like, if you would if you don't have haters, you're not going hard enough. He was like, I love the perspective they bring. Like, it's, know, sparring with them, all this stuff.

Dax:

Like, he was just really, like, talking, like, passionately about the concept of haters. And I was, like, you know what? That's a good perspective.

Adam:

It is good. Yeah. I feel like you have haters, for sure. Right?

Dax:

And I think I need more. I feel like he's right that

Adam:

Can I have some of yours? I don't think I have any. Do I have any haters? Does anybody hate me?

Dax:

I feel like you've gotten you've gotten more haters than I have, I think. I okay. Here's what it is. I think I could I I consistently hate it every single day for sure. But you have had a cute moment of intense hate, like, when you posted that coffee thing.

Dax:

Oh, what? The caffeine thing when you were like

Adam:

That's a moment though. They forgot about me the next day. Like, they they don't hate they're not a hater. Like, there's people that probably see your tweets, and they get all riled up every single day. Like, they follow you just to hate

Dax:

follow you. That's true. I'm just saying that you have the capacity for that as well as you've been able to demonstrate that in the past.

Adam:

Be really annoying in short bursts. Yeah.

Dax:

And you apologized 3 times? Go watch that Brian Johnson video, and you won't and you won't apologize.

Adam:

I'm I'm, like, more of an acquired taste. I feel like that you have to kind of, like, sit with me for hours, and then you start to appreciate my personality. I've I've been listening to

Dax:

I'm sorry.

Adam:

I can't talk. I've been listening to our, to our, little social clips. We're we're making little clips for social stuff. It's so hard to find one where I am coherent at all. Like, it'll be a 30 second clip, and I can't figure out what I'm even talking about, and I said it.

Adam:

I'm, like, 20 seconds in, and I don't know what I'm saying. And you have this, like, very deliberate, like, laid out logical path to everything you say. And I'm just like,

Dax:

This is gonna be a great clip right here.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah. So what I can figure out is why do people listen to our podcast? And I I start to think, maybe they listen to a lot more if it was just you.

Dax:

But would I be talking to you? This is just the wall?

Adam:

I don't just talk to something. Yeah. Just read your own tweets, you know.

Dax:

Just get off your head. Here's the thing. We've been getting really good feedback from people and our numbers are looking good. Yeah. Don't introspect it.

Dax:

Let's just Okay. Don't introspect it. It's working. People like it for whatever reason. I don't I don't know why.

Dax:

It doesn't feel like we're doing anything on purpose. It feels like all accidental, but

Adam:

We'll we'll take it.

Dax:

Half the people that hate Dax hate him because of that Rich Harris video. So this is also an interesting concept. Did you see the screenshot I posted? Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

Someone replied to me being like, hey, what was up with that video of you and Rich Harris? Like, it was really awkward and, like, you're really mean and he seemed really upset when he left. And I found this so fascinating because I was like, wow. This really reflects how subjective everyone's experience of, like, the universe is. I I imagine ever watching that video and thinking it was anything other than

Adam:

a joke.

Dax:

It seems impossible. It seems like there's no way there's no way I could ever mistake that. But there's some percentage of people out there that see it and have a completely different experience. And maybe wherever they're from, like, that type of sarcasm or that type of humor isn't really a thing. So it just seems, like, awkward and, like, maybe even, like, cringey to them to to watch.

Dax:

But for us, it's not.

Adam:

I no. Yeah. I I had never heard for for what it's worth, I'd never heard of Between 2 Ferns. So I obviously knew you were joking because I know you, but I could see a world where I don't know you or Rich Harris or what you, like, do in life. And I see that video and and maybe don't know, but it's but I don't know.

Adam:

Somebody wouldn't put it on YouTube if it was that bad. Like, you gotta just understand that, like, this is not a real this is staged.

Dax:

Yeah. Have you seen that, what's her name? I think her name is Bobby. She she does, like everyone thinks she's some kinda, like, industry plant because she gets all these crazy interviews with, like, the most famous people. But she does the same thing where it's, like, a super awkward interview and she gets, like, the funniest to close possible.

Dax:

And I to be honest, like, I think, like, some of those are real. Like, I think some of those are just, like, real interactions. Yeah. I saw one yesterday. I forgot what she was interviewing, but the interviewer described she's, like, oh, you're a musician And the person gets really upset.

Dax:

She's like, I'm not a musician. Like, why do you keep calling me musician? Like, you think, like, I'm doing magic? They just go back back and forth where this woman thinks she's saying magician and not musician. And then she's like, they're getting into a fight.

Dax:

She's like, I'm not a magician. Like, I'm a musician. I'm not a musician. I do music. I do acting.

Dax:

And she's like, wait. But you said you do music, so you are a musician. And they were just like it was so good. It was so funny. And I'm just, like, I guess someone I did watch a video about a little bit of the history of, I guess, humor that we find very normal, but it's, like, somewhat recent and, like, the introduction of some of this type this type of humor.

Dax:

Yeah. And this this, like, whole, like, awkward moment thing that we're all super into and, like, I think a lot of our humor is in that in that format Yeah. Is actually, like, somewhat new. It's not like it's been around forever. Like like like The Office kinda humor where someone is doing really something really, like Yeah.

Dax:

Weird and everyone else is uncomfortable about it. Yeah, that just wasn't a thing for me.

Adam:

A very long time.

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah.

Adam:

It makes me wanna have people on the show that I think would make really awkward situations because I do feel like there's something funny. It's probably you're inspiring me with your Between 2 Ferns videos. There's something so funny about, like, this is a train wreck and I hate it, and I wanna be gone. Something about that's enjoyable today. I don't know.

Dax:

It is extremely hard. So when now that I've, like, made I mean, I only made 2 of them, but having gone to the process of making them, and then I watch these, like, professional people do it, I'm just, like, again, with the same person, Bobby Lee. Maybe I'm mixing up her name and his name. Whatever. But he's a he's like a hilarious comedian, has been one for decades now.

Dax:

And their interactions are so so funny, like, a 100 times funnier than anything that I've done. And I think they're completely unscripted too. And I'm, like, these people are so much better than me at this. Like, they're so, so talented. I can really appreciate it now having done it.

Dax:

Like, all of the the things that I've made heavily, heavily edited. All of my lines are scripted. I refilm stuff after to, like, insert lines that I thought of later. But the things that, you know, the things that I'm talking about, these are professionally made ones, are not like that. They just have, like, 1 hour to capture the footage, and they just roll with it.

Dax:

And it's really amazing.

Adam:

Is it mostly acting, or are they just that good at just being awkward? Is that part of their personality? Like

Dax:

Yeah. I think I think one whoever's a host of it needs to be really strong. Because they need to be a 100% in character and not break it and make the other person really feel like you're in this antagonistic situation. And then the other person has, like, play off of it really well. And, yeah, when you see, like, professionals do it versus, like, let's say, like, the interviewer does it with, like, an athlete or something, it's still good, but you can see that there's there's a massive gap between these two types of people.

Dax:

Keep

Adam:

trying. You'll get better decks. You're not very good at it yet, but that parkas I couldn't think of earlier is called The Clearing. It's about Edward Wayne Edwards serial killer. Sorry.

Adam:

Had to say that because I remembered it.

Dax:

Great. And I wanna say guys wanna watch or listen to stuff about people getting killed, if you're maybe curious about killing yourself like Adam is,

Adam:

Oh, my word. You can't say stuff like that, Dax. Why? You just can't I don't know. Touchy.

Dax:

What is it? You can't say I thought this is America.

Adam:

I thought

Dax:

we could say whatever we wanted. What do you mean I can't say

Adam:

stuff? Trying to be so serious and make you feel bad, and, just bad at that too.

Dax:

Has that ever worked? No. Making me feel bad?

Adam:

Have you ever felt bad about anything?

Dax:

I don't think so. Ever in

Adam:

your life?

Dax:

I've just never done anything bad, so ever.

Adam:

Not even once. Oh, I have tweets of yours I wanna ask you questions about, for sure.

Dax:

This is a this is a section of our podcast where you're, like, who are you subtweeting in this one? Who are you subtweeting in this one? Yeah.

Adam:

Basically, yeah. Yeah. Because I can tell. I know it's a subtweet, and I just can't figure out who is it. I'm gonna read one of your tweets.

Adam:

Everyone I meet that works on a top 1% web app finds all the latest web dev tech, in quotes, completely irrelevant. They do enjoy making fun of it, though. I have, I feel like I've experienced the making fun of latest web dev stuff from people who, like, know what they're doing, but I can't think of anybody. Were you thinking of me? Is that what you're is it just me?

Adam:

And then my arm Yeah.

Dax:

Do I work on top

Adam:

of them?

Dax:

I mean, I can't be honest. I wasn't thinking of you. Yeah. No. I don't think so.

Adam:

It's fine. No. Let's make it awkward. No. I feel really bad.

Adam:

You made me feel bad, Dax.

Dax:

I said top 1%. I think people didn't understand or, like, people Yeah.

Adam:

Is that by, like, traffic? What is that what is that? No.

Dax:

I was talking about traffic at all. I was just

Adam:

talking about,

Dax:

like Quality? These are high quality, like, really impressive things

Adam:

that Like, linear.

Dax:

Like, you would need to be in the top 1% of developers to, like, execute. Not just developers, just product people in general to execute something like this. Yeah. And I've been talking to the people behind Faye.

Adam:

Is that the finance one?

Dax:

Yeah. The the their long term goal is to compete with Bloomberg terminal.

Adam:

Oh, right. Right.

Dax:

So it's Faye app dot com, f e y app dot com. That thing is beautiful. It is super well made. So many little details.

Adam:

Feyapp.

Dax:

So many little details, like, just really well executed. The team is also constantly posting, like, pretty much, like, every day or every other day. They, like, zoom in on a little detail they just built and, like, talk about how they built it. And it's always, like, crazy attention to detail, so well done. I've been talking to them a little bit more.

Dax:

And they're, like, they're all one, they're crazy. They're, like, they're all super funny and, like, weird. And they just don't give a shit about any of the Twitter discourse on, like, here's, like, the future of web dev and, like, we're betting everything on PPR and just shit like that. Yep. It's just not relevant to that at all.

Adam:

Wait. Is that a real one?

Dax:

Yeah. It

Adam:

is. That's a fancy real one thing. Oh, it's a real one. Okay. I'm sorry.

Dax:

At this point, any three letters you arrange, it's probably a real one.

Adam:

Sorry. I had that woah moment because it says press t anytime to start your trial, and it was just a cool experience. Like, it drops down and yeah.

Dax:

Just like you you can just feel the quality. Whenever I describe things in this way, like, the best apps or, like, the top 1 percent of whatever, people ask me to, like, explain it or, like, drill into what I mean by that. Yeah. But then, like, look at this experience. Go to this site and you know.

Dax:

You just know that these people are, like, next level. Right? It's just a feeling you get right away. Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

There's no there's not really any specifics. Yeah. And they build their stuff very different than how I build our stuff. And so it is interesting from that angle too.

Adam:

Oh, you you followed up with that one an hour later. This was a bit unclear. They're using cutting edge techniques and tools, just not the ones you're told matter. Yeah. We gotta have Guillermo on the podcast now.

Adam:

I feel like it it it has to happen. There's just enough, like, stuff that you've said, slander towards the tribal company.

Dax:

I just

Adam:

would love to see you 2 in a room together. I don't know.

Dax:

I was actually them before you got on.

Adam:

Oh, really?

Dax:

Yeah. I was,

Adam:

On Twitch. Yeah.

Dax:

I was I was reading they posted an article. This is so I find this so funny. I think it's perfectly symbolic of everything that we talk about. I saw an article from them the other day being Vercel expands, like, PCI compliance or something. So yeah.

Dax:

It's some title like that. And I was, like, this is really weird. Like, they, like I don't even think they signed BA's or HIPAA they're not, like, HIPAA compliant or anything last I checked. Like, why are they, like, PCI compliant? That's so specific and really intense to get PCI certified.

Dax:

Like, who is using Vercel for, payments infrastructure? Yeah. So then I go into the article and the whole article is about how to use an iframe to not send stuff to Vercel. They're like, if you want to be PCI compliant, here's how you take all your PCI compliant stuff, put it in an iframe, and, like, don't send it to Vercel.

Adam:

It from Vercel. Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. And then but then, like, they they posted it in this way of being, like, we're expanding our PCI compliance. And I'm just, like, man, what what is this?

Adam:

I got 2, 2 tweets of yours that will get us into some tech stuff. 1, you're gonna use Bun in Ion stuff. So where where is Bun at on the scale of maturity?

Dax:

So I have now either moved over or in the process of moving over to use BUN for all my tool chain needs, if that makes sense.

Adam:

So just like local dev stuff and build process?

Dax:

Liz is getting more hands on and front end engineering stuff. And I was getting her set up, and I was explaining to her, like, okay. This is what Node. Js is. This is you know, people wanna run JavaScript outside of the browser, so Node.

Dax:

Js was not giving her a little history. And then I was like, how the hell do I explain what PNPM is? Like like, why is this I was, like, trying to explain to her and I was just, like, there's actually no I couldn't think of, like, a clean model of, like, this is Node and then this is other random thing you use with Node so that you can use Node. And I was just, like something clicked for me where I was, like, BUN just makes all this stuff easier to understand. You use BUN to run your stuff.

Dax:

You use BUN to install your packages. Any step you do as part of local development, you use BUN for. Very clean, very understandable. And now that, like, sold me. So I moved all my local developments up to there, but still not using it in, like, production or anything.

Adam:

Like, runtime. Yeah. Not using it in the critical path of, like, users making requests and then serving stuff from BUN.

Dax:

The reason we're using BUN in SST now we're actually shipping BUN with SST in case you don't have it installed.

Adam:

Oh, interesting. How big is it?

Dax:

So it's 90 megabytes.

Adam:

90 megabytes.

Dax:

But I did some performance, like, measurements yesterday where, so we are, like, really trying to hide the concept of node modules for SST. Like, your application will have node modules and, like, you don't like, we don't want you to, like, additionally think about, like, SST related node modules that are kind of internal details. Like, the whole thing before, like, SST 2, we have to, like, update your CDK package, and this created a ton of mess. Right. Yeah.

Dax:

We wanna hide we are using node modules in the background minimally. We wanna hide them as much as possible. So when you install SST, which is now, like, a Go based CLI, we do need to pull some node modules down. And I was pulling them with NPM and, man, it was slow. For, like, 300 megabytes of NPM modules, like, it was taking, like, close to a minute.

Dax:

This is a terrible experience. Literally downloading BUN and having BUN do the install is, like

Adam:

It's faster.

Dax:

So much faster. So I, like, tried it and I was, like, this is really weird, but you know what? There's actually no problem with doing this. This just works. If you have BUN installed earlier, they will use it.

Dax:

Otherwise, we install, like, like, a localized version to SSD version of BUN. And, yeah, we're using it. And I think over time, we'll be able to use it for more and more and more. So we're just using it for the install now, but it's good to know that it's there for other stuff we wanna use it for.

Adam:

Interesting.

Dax:

But, yeah, it's fantastic.

Adam:

The other tweet, was your live Lambda change. You made a change to how like, ST, for those who don't know, is like, that was the first thing that kinda put you on the map, right, was live Lambda reloads. Like, you change the file, and then you can hit your API. And it's hitting AWS infrastructure, but then it's, like, routing back to your local machine to run your code and then going back. So you changed you did something, and you made it 10 times faster?

Adam:

I wanna say 10 times? A 100 times?

Dax:

I don't know if okay. It's already so fast that, like, I don't think making it faster really is noticeable.

Adam:

Yeah. I wondered I I wanted to ask you that. Like, what is faster? Like, when I save the file

Dax:

I had to reimplement it because we're for Ion. Like, I the there was a task of reimplementing it because Yeah. You know, it's a brand new CLI. So I had to reimplement it. It's, like, my 3rd time implementing it.

Dax:

So given it's my 3rd time, it's just gonna come out better. Yeah. So it did just come out better. It handles, like, all these different edge cases better. Like, scenarios like you hit save, and that starts a rebuild.

Dax:

But in the middle of a rebuild, like, a request comes in, like, will, like, block that request so the build's done and then, like, then pipe it through and handling, like, errors and crashes. And, like, there's just a lot of, like, edge cases that we didn't handle before. So I think with this implementation, the speed it is faster. Like, I'm actually streaming raw, like, HTTP requests and responses over IoT. Implementation is simpler.

Dax:

We can swap out IoT with, like like, a container that just uses a proxy, kinda like ngrok as well, for people that, like, can't use IoT or, like, you know, are in some kind of corporate environment where they need to do it differently. So, overall, implementation of everything is is better. And, yeah, like, it did result in things being faster. But the thing that I'm more interested in is, like, there's just so many edge cases, and I've I've kind of flipped my way of working on this. So, typically, I will try to get something to be as complete as possible as soon as possible, and then people will report errors, and I'll fix them over time.

Dax:

Yeah. But especially with something like this where I know, like, it's not like a random new feature, like, it's the same feature. Trying to fix every possible edge case I know of and can think about upfront, I I think, is working better because I'm, like, in it right now, and I have all the context.

Adam:

Mhmm.

Dax:

And if we ship this and release it, and a month later someone tells me, like, oh, you know, when I get a burst of 50 requests, like, my computer crashes because it tries to do too much work. It's, like, harder for me to get back into the design of it and, like, figure out what needs to be changed. So yeah. I think for quality it's really we've been doing this thing where we do, like, this really intense polishing phase for, like, a week or 2 before we ship anything, and we end up having, like, a list of, like, a 100 items and just kind of cranking through every single thing. And, yeah, we're doing that upfront more than trying to get to it later because I think it just doesn't happen later.

Adam:

Yeah. I have no follow-up questions. I didn't have any follow-up questions for your last thing either. I'm just, like, I'm throwing stuff at you. Hey.

Adam:

Talk about this.

Dax:

Well, your voice is gone, so I gotta I feel like my voice is going now too. Oh, no.

Adam:

It's contagious. Yeah.

Dax:

You got me sick through Riverside. Is that a new feature? Through Riverside new feature.

Adam:

It's funny.

Dax:

Let's talk about our guests. So I posted

Adam:

Oh, yeah.

Dax:

Yesterday, because we're talking about having more guests on, which is always fun. I asked who people wanted to see. Unsurprisingly, Ken Wheeler had, like, a crazy number of replies and likes. And he himself tagged himself, so he also wants to come on. And so Sure.

Adam:

We should

Dax:

definitely do that. I think Ryan Florence also tagged himself and also got a bunch of replies. So I think those will be fun. Both of them are are really funny people.

Adam:

Yeah. I've got to spend some time with Ken. I'm only just getting to know Ryan just through Twitter. I wanna go snowboard with him. I almost snowboarded once, so now I feel like I could bond with somebody in the mountains on a snowboard.

Dax:

I thought you said you were going snowboarding.

Adam:

I was, and then my knee, was too swollen and painful. I don't know if if this is I'm gonna say I'm not gonna say who, but someone someone hurt themselves on the mountain, someone with me. I'm gonna stop now because I just don't wanna share information. It's like medical information. I don't know.

Adam:

I don't wanna share that on the Internet.

Dax:

Someone on the mountain that was with you heard That

Adam:

was just a terrible teaser. Yeah.

Dax:

Know anyone except your immediate family, so I don't know how big that was.

Adam:

Never mind. It's not for me to say, but it was an eventful, trip Oh, okay.

Dax:

I see. Off town. I see.

Adam:

Anyway, I'm gonna stop now. That sounded I've been talking about serial killers. I just now I tease somebody got hurt on a mountain. You guys are all gonna

Dax:

You're smiling the whole time you're saying that. Was it an accident,

Adam:

Adam? Or were you taking a step

Dax:

down a path that you can't return from?

Adam:

I'm really I'm really tired. Like, not tired, like, sleepy. Like, there is so much going on. Do you feel like that ever? No.

Adam:

You because you you have what I want, which is, like, you have one thing. It's like your one thing that everything you do is, like, towards that thing. And I have, like, a dozen things, and they're all, like, in different directions, and they have nothing to do with each other. And I'm so tired of having so many different things going on. Do you ever feel that way?

Dax:

I I think I do feel that. I don't think maybe it's I don't think it's to the same extreme as you, but we've got so we've got SST. We've got SST. We've got our secret project no one knows about. Mhmm.

Dax:

Mhmm. Me and Liz have stuff that we work on. So I also feel, like, very split. Yeah. But not to the same degree as you.

Dax:

I think all my things have synergy with each other. So, like, working on any one of those, like, moves them all forward in a way.

Adam:

Yeah. There's no synergy. All of mine are completely disparate.

Dax:

I mean, I actually feel that way when I was, like, consulting, and I had a bunch of clients that were unrelated. But even there, somehow, like, they would even line up sometimes.

Adam:

Yeah. It's it's not even, like, it's not even work things. Mhmm. Because I do just kinda have, like, one work focus, but it's just like so I'm I'm getting an assistant up to speed. She used to work for us just as a house assistant, and then she had a baby, and we lost her.

Adam:

She's very detail oriented. It's very hard to find people.

Dax:

Oh god. Don't say we lost her.

Adam:

Well, we lost her to motherhood.

Dax:

We had a baby, and then we lost her.

Adam:

Yeah. You know what I mean? No. I didn't kill her. You killed her.

Adam:

So she but now the baby's old enough that she can kinda, like, help again. So she's helping me with just my digital life. I had this folder, like a shared drive that I'm organizing at, like, the top level. There's, like, top level folders for kinda all these different areas I'm talking about that are making me so stressed. And it started and I was like, there's like 3 top level folders.

Adam:

And it's like, these are the 3 things that I'm doing right now that matter. And then I was like, oh no, I forgot. Now there's 7. There's 7 of them. There's 7 top level folders.

Adam:

I just added one this morning. I was like, I can't believe I forgot that. There's, like, too many things. Too many things going on. And that's, like, high level, like, high level buckets that matter to me right now.

Adam:

It's not even, like, 7 different tasks. It's like each one of those is like a whole umbrella of crazy things. It's just too much. But, like, I don't and when I think about, like, maybe I need to drop something. Maybe I need to stop doing some of these things.

Adam:

There's not one of them that I wanna stop doing. It's like I wanna deal with them all. I just have a thirst for life, Dax. I don't know what to tell you. I just I wanna do it all.

Dax:

I had this funny thought where you were like, I wanna drop something. I was like, is that I'm gonna leave his family? That's the one you choose? You're like, the family folder. Duhle

Adam:

eats. Family folder. Oh, man. Oh, that's funny. Everyone thinks I'm on drugs in Twitch chat.

Adam:

I'm not on drugs. I am sick, so my voice sounds very weird, and it's very hard for me to deliver a sentence. I'm not no. What did I say? Did I sound drunk?

Adam:

Even you looked at me funny, Dax. What did I I did just lose a lot of blood.

Dax:

Someone said you were drunk when you were when you made that funny noise about how you feel when you hear yourself

Adam:

when you're

Dax:

looking for clips. Yeah. I wouldn't say that you're on steroids, that you, you know, you have to, like, stop.

Adam:

My my no joke. My jiu jitsu coach, first time, he's known to, like, like he said in the past, like, oh, yeah. Have you seen Jamie over at that gym? He's totally on roids. Like, he's always talking about people being on the juice.

Adam:

And the first time, in my 6 months of doing jujitsu at this gym, he asked me last time I saw him on Sunday, am I hitting the juice? He asked if I was hitting the juice. That means I'm getting big.

Dax:

That's a compliment, I guess. I know. It's a good one. Yeah.

Adam:

Because this is all natural. This is plant based. You know what I'm saying?

Dax:

Yeah. Sounds great. Hard work. Looks fan looks and sounds fantastic. Alright.

Dax:

Now is

Adam:

what they're

Dax:

trying to be flexing that.

Adam:

Oh, man. If I start losing my hair, you guys can you can drug test me for roids, but I'm not on the juice. Wait.

Dax:

You lose hair when you take steroids?

Adam:

Isn't that, like, a symptom? I think

Dax:

Oh, your testosterone's higher? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That

Adam:

makes sense. Yeah. Maybe. I don't don't know the mechanism, but I think you lose hair That's

Dax:

what happened to me.

Adam:

Get all ragey. Oh, that's what happened. It's steroids.

Dax:

Yeah. They're not working for my muscles, but they're helping me lose hair.

Adam:

Says it increases DHT, which causes hair loss, I think.

Dax:

Oh, okay. He

Adam:

thinks, though. He knows these very specific details, but he just thinks. He's not sure.

Dax:

I'm very confused because that's, like, the first serious message I've ever seen from him, like, in in, like, a year of of seeing him in chat.

Adam:

Paul, you know a lot about steroids there. I'm just saying.

Dax:

He, like, hasn't been anything serious for, like, a legit year, and then he he chimes in for one steroid fact. He

Adam:

knows a lot about hair loss.

Dax:

That's funny. I see.

Adam:

Yeah. I like, I'm gonna put a bow on this. Just my little rant. Because I I'm not depressed. I'm really not.

Adam:

But it feels like the beginning of what leads to depression, which is, like, the more I think about, like, working years like, these are the years of our prime where we're really, like, producing and whatever. We're a cog in the machine. Right? We're creating. We're whatever.

Adam:

We're working all these years and it's our prime physical years too. And so when I think about, like, maybe I need to stop with the jujitsu and the trying to be like, I'm trying to push so hard physically and do all these things, and maybe that's just too much time. I can't devote that right now, and I'll do it later in life. And it's like, no. I don't wanna do it when I'm 55.

Adam:

Like, I wish I would have been doing jujitsu in my twenties. I was running a start up. You know? Like, I was doing the work stuff. And it's it makes me so mad that, like, there's 3 very important things in life.

Adam:

And not that, like, you have to have a family, but that's the other important thing. It's like I'm raising my family, but my kids are young and like, all of them overlap. It's like, literally you have kids when you're also in your working prime and also in your physical prime. Oh, you wanna do physical activity? Yeah.

Adam:

Juggle that with your family and your work. It sucks. I don't know. There's no answer. And every time I come back to it, I just get sad, and then I move on.

Adam:

But it just sucks. It I hate it.

Dax:

Have you considered doing cocaine?

Adam:

No. That's a great idea. I feel like Just like speed through it all.

Dax:

Speed through it all.

Adam:

You had this very, like,

Dax:

serious thing, and I was like And then

Adam:

you just drop it out.

Dax:

I'm just gonna go for the the cocaine line.

Adam:

Comedic relief. Yeah. Cocaine. Okay. So maybe I could just, like I

Dax:

mean, have you? Like, I think that would, you know

Adam:

I've never done cocaine. No. I don't even know where you get cocaine. Like, I I have a guy for some things, but I don't know where he would I don't think he does cocaine.

Dax:

I literally I literally started I was gonna make fun of you, but then I started laughing, and then I started choking. And I'm gonna ignore all of that. Is there any cocaine in the Ozarks? Is there, like, 1 gram of cocaine in the Ozarks somewhere?

Adam:

But, like, I think people prefer meth here. It's like every every region has their cuisine, you know, like, you go you get gumbo in the south. Like, here, meth is the choice, drug of choice.

Dax:

Is it is meth productive? Like, can you be because proteins are reproductive.

Adam:

I think it's similar, similar, like, it's an upper. Upper. Yeah. That's a I don't know if that's the right term. But I think people, like, go bananas, like, very energetic, but also they don't eat, and your teeth fall out, and you get big sores on your face.

Adam:

It's like cocaine for poor people.

Dax:

I see.

Adam:

That's what meth is.

Dax:

Because I feel like I know people that do cocaine and have very normal lives. Like, do it, like, a lot. Like, do it, like

Adam:

Like, you and Liz? Or

Dax:

Do I seem like I'm on cocaine? I don't think I have that energy.

Adam:

No. You've got a very chill vibe now. Yeah. Same with Liz. Yeah.

Adam:

Maybe Zuko, though. I don't know. I'm not sure about Zuko.

Dax:

He's a little amped up. He's actually really calm for the most part. He is a dog, you know. But, yes, I do live in Miami.

Adam:

So cocaine can be it can fit into a balanced life is what you're saying. Cocaine doesn't it gets the wrong reputation.

Dax:

I mean, I don't know if it's the wrong reputation, but, like, I've seen people what's it called? Like, a functional addict or whatever they call it? Like, I've seen people do that with with cocaine.

Adam:

With cocaine?

Dax:

And, man, does it make you productive?

Adam:

Do they sleep less? I'm sure.

Dax:

I'm sure it's like Or they

Adam:

can go for your part

Dax:

and your health and and all of that. Yeah. So that's always an option, you know, if you feel like you have a lot to do and you can't fit on one day.

Adam:

Just cocaine. I was thinking a little a little more socially acceptable and just, like, starting caffeine again. That seems like a maybe a a shorter path, I don't know, than getting into cocaine. He just

Dax:

seemed like the kind of guy that would, like, go for the best, The thing that's the most effective. Best.

Adam:

Yeah. But it's not good for your heart, you said. Like, I'm I'm also trying I'm really considering this, so we gotta have this conversation. I'm really trying to be healthy as well.

Dax:

Okay. 1, I'm a 100% joking. So

Adam:

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Totally joking.

Dax:

Well, I mean okay. I'm, like, 80% joking. Maybe it would help you. I don't know.

Adam:

Uh-huh. 100% over here. I was a 100% joking.

Dax:

Whatever I say, I know this idea is not gonna get past your wife. So that's

Adam:

Yeah. That's true.

Dax:

That that's gonna be the filter. So I can say whatever.

Adam:

But maybe caffeine. Maybe. I just it hurts your sleep. It affects your sleep. I'm trying to get, like, good sleep scores every night.

Adam:

I'm basically trying to be Brian Johnson, but, like, I don't care about my skin. That's all. It's like Brian Johnson minus the skincare.

Dax:

I'm trying to move.

Adam:

You're moving out of your house?

Dax:

But I'm trying to move next door. Wait. What? I don't know if it's gonna work out. Okay.

Dax:

So the house next to mine is owned by my landlord. Like, he owns both. And it's his, like, wife's grandparents are visiting, so they're they've been staying there. But it's bigger, and it has, like, a bigger backyard.

Adam:

Is it real grass too?

Dax:

Nicer? No. It's not. My landlord loves ripping out the real grass and putting fake grass. I get why from landlord point of view, that's, like, a good investment because you don't have to take care of it.

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's I know he the, like, the demand for, like like, rent demand has gone down.

Adam:

Oh, really?

Dax:

At least, Yeah. A little bit. So that house is cheaper than what it was last time it was available for lease and now it's very close to the same price as our place. So I'm kind of like that would be a nice upgrade. Moving is annoying, but moving next door, less annoying than, like, moving moving.

Adam:

Oh, that's way better. Yeah. You could do it could you do it over time even? Would they let

Dax:

you, like Yeah. For sure. I could

Adam:

do it, like

Dax:

You don't have

Adam:

to have a moving day where you get people to begrudgingly help you.

Dax:

Yeah. And I've kind of done this before. I've moved within the same building in New York. I moved up a couple floors.

Adam:

What what about moving up a couple floors was worth the trade off of having to move all your stuff?

Dax:

It was I went from a studio to a 1 bedroom. I was moving up in life. Okay. I was moving up in altitude. You're moving up in life.

Dax:

You know? Is that

Adam:

how it works in New York? The higher how the penthouse

Dax:

Actually, now that I think about it, did I go lower? I think I might have went lower. I don't remember. But it was bigger space for me.

Adam:

I think it'd be more desirable to be closer to the ground, like, less elevator time. No.

Dax:

No. Higher is better because yeah. You're right. You're right. The elevator time is a thing.

Dax:

But, you get in the elevator with someone else in the elevator. They punch 9. You punch 24.

Adam:

And you just feel better because

Dax:

your cover's bigger. You know who's who's on top literally. Wow. That's why.

Adam:

Humans are simple. We're a pretty simple organism when you think about it. Yeah.

Dax:

Bigger number, better.

Adam:

Yeah. Bigger number, better. Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. So I I don't know if we're gonna be able to do it because I think I talked to him this morning, and he said that somebody already sent a contract in.

Adam:

Wait. Somebody he's under contract with somebody else, and you're not sure if he'll be able to do it?

Dax:

I messaged him yesterday because we had the idea that I thought he was walking by my house this morning, so I talked to him real quick. And he said somebody sent the contract in. I don't know if that means that it's finalized or anything. But Can

Adam:

I ask, I've heard about your morning routine of going out in your boxers and walking Zuko around your astroturf? Yeah. Were you in your boxers when you had this conversation with your landlord? No no other clothes.

Dax:

No. I had a shirt on today.

Adam:

Oh, okay.

Dax:

Sometimes I don't. You know, it's been it's been cold here for, like it's been so long. And I know 65?

Adam:

Yeah. Will do on the ground.

Dax:

Okay. Let let me let me try to defend myself. Let me try to explain why I'm gonna complain about it. Good luck. I'll preface it with with acknowledging, yes, Everyone has it worse than me.

Dax:

But here's the thing. I moved here to, like, not worry about temperature. The mornings, it's been around, like, 50 to 60, okay, when I wake up. Yeah. So I can't do the thing which I love more than anything in the world, which is roll out of bed and walk outside in whatever I'm wearing.

Dax:

I have to put on a shirt or, like, put on something. At least, like, one layer or, like, one long sleeve layer. Yeah. And that just ruins my morning. That, like, ruins my routine.

Dax:

That ruins, like, a big part of what's great here. Yeah. And it's cold. And then, you know, you know, later in the day, it gets to seventies, which is fantastic. But yeah.

Dax:

Look. What I'm saying is I'm basically the same as you. You get you have to Basic. You have to wake up. If you have to go outside, I get to, like, get dressed and, you know, that whole routine.

Adam:

I'd really I'd love for you to come visit in the Ozarks. Like, when it's, you know, the polar vortex is here and it's negative 15. What the hell

Dax:

was that? And

Adam:

we're trying to get our 2 kids to the grocery store, and it's minus 15 degrees, and everyone has to wear, like, 6 layers. Yeah. I'd love for you to come visit. We'll have a good time. And then you can appreciate what you really got, Dax.

Adam:

You had to slip on a t shirt before you walked outside in your underwear.

Dax:

You poor thing. Yeah. But it's hard.

Adam:

Yeah. But hard. That's a good one. Good comeback.

Dax:

I'm curious. Aren't you rich enough to buy a house while you're renting? I cannot understand this is European. So I still own an apartment in New York, and I don't think I can buy 2 houses realistically. So I need to sell that one before I can buy another one.

Adam:

Ever gonna sell are you still trying to sell it? The people in New York just decided

Dax:

to We've got a tenant in there ever since we left. So, her she's she's gonna be out this summer. We have to ask if she wants to renew, but assuming she doesn't, we're gonna try to list it this summer. I don't know if anyone's gonna buy it. Like, it's I just can't I don't know why someone would go take out a 7% mortgage right now to buy my apartment.

Dax:

It just does it make sense for that?

Adam:

Is it 7%? Something like that. That's so rough. Wow.

Dax:

So, yeah, I don't know. For the price that I would need to sell it at, like, I'm very skeptical. So we're, like, in this weird trap situation. I'm okay renting. The only pain point with it is, we can't fix stuff in the house.

Dax:

We can, but it feels dumb, and there's just, like, know, it's a little bit more overhead with, like, asking the landlord for permission. Yeah. But so, yeah. I'm fine with this setup for now. But, P version offered me 50 k for the New York department.

Dax:

If he gets to that, I'm gonna have a problem.

Adam:

Yeah. Did I ever tell you about our, if I've already told you, please just stop me. But did I ever tell you about our moving, to Florida and then moving back financial situation?

Dax:

Because you sold the house for a loss and that person sold it again for a profit. It was,

Adam:

like, probably, like, a 30% loss, and they sold it for, like, a 30 percent increase. It was, like, the same amount we lost on it, they gained

Dax:

on it. Just maybe so bad. They're just people in life where, like, just tiny is beautiful

Adam:

for them. Time everything. Yeah. Are they just patient? Am I just so impatient that I'm I'm always on the wrong end of timing because I just can't wait?

Dax:

I'm just con I'm convinced that there's no controlling this because it's just so it's just so random. Like, all the people that bought places towards the beginning of COVID, like, damn. Prices were low and the interest rates were super low. Yeah. Life was good.

Dax:

How are you gonna predict the

Adam:

I did I guess, I timed my mortgage here, like, at the 2.5% or whatever.

Dax:

Yeah. My my New York apartment is similar. But Yeah. But, yeah, we're stuck with it for now.

Adam:

I just I just had this thought of you being my landlord. And, wow, you're somebody's landlord. And that's hilarious to me.

Dax:

You know you know what's funny? Yeah. It's been interesting having this experience because, I lived in that apartment. Okay. I lived in it.

Dax:

And like any place that's not brand new, there's some things that are a little wrong with it. Like, one of the windows isn't open properly.

Adam:

Yeah. I could

Dax:

but again, you're, like, on the 8th floor. You're not and it's New York. You're not, like, opening your window all the time. But the other windows open fine. We actually did try to get it fixed and the company, like we paid them to fix it and they, like, didn't they, like, fixed half of it and the other half wasn't really fixed.

Dax:

But I'm like, you know, it's not the biggest deal in the world. I'm gonna pay 1,000 to get this window fixed. It's not not a big deal. Yeah. But, you know, for our tenant, she's, like, hey, I need this window fixed.

Dax:

And I'm, like, oh, this is why landlords are the way they are. Because I'm like, it doesn't fucking matter. I'm not gonna spend $1,000 on fixing this window. Just use the other fucking window, you know? But I'm like, okay.

Dax:

I get it. I have a little bit of empathy for how annoying landlords are. I'm definitely not as annoying as the typical landlord who's, like, deep in them and have has had that mindset for, like, decades. But Yeah. It's weird.

Adam:

Totally calloused yet and hardened. Yeah. You are from other things, but not being a landlord.

Dax:

Pete Berger just dropped his offer to 48 shakes. I

Adam:

know. Oh, man. So good.

Dax:

Also, being a tenant, like, remotely from another state is, like, also its whole its whole thing because you can't just go.

Adam:

Oh, yeah. That's tough. Do they follow you on Twitter? Does your tenant follow you? That'd be hilarious to me.

Dax:

She moved in there because her two daughters are now in college, and she was, like, downsizing to live just by herself. I don't think she follows me on Twitter. That'd be really weird.

Adam:

Because I think that'd be hilarious. If she knew your online presence, like, just, like, your personality on the Internet, if that would change her as a tenant and her relationship with you, I wonder.

Dax:

People find their online personalities weird. And, so our secret project

Adam:

Yes. I'm so excited.

Dax:

The other person we're working with on our secret project that's not from our bubble. Yes. So I know him. This is gonna be so vague and so funny.

Adam:

Let's call him Dee.

Dax:

Dee? What? That may sound like that's me.

Adam:

Oh, yeah. Your name starts with d. Okay. Never mind.

Dax:

I don't remember your name anyway.

Adam:

Just that person. Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

Okay. So he's obviously not from our wait. No. Not that person. Not Dee.

Dax:

No. No. No. No. No.

Dax:

No. No. No. No. No.

Dax:

No. No. No. The person who we're buying this stuff from.

Adam:

Oh. Gotcha. Okay.

Dax:

Yeah. That person. That person.

Adam:

Mhmm. Buying what stuff? Everyone's so curious now. They can't handle it.

Dax:

Yeah. The secret project. So the person we're buying this stuff from, for the thing that we're trying to do, he's he's a friend of a friend. And my friend was saying that he was looking us up, because for the stuff that we do. And, like, obviously, 1, we're, like, this weird space where we're using all these technical terms that nobody uses that's ever space.

Dax:

Yeah. But, 2, like, he just, like, could not tell what was serious and what was, like, a joke and what was a shit post. And it just I realized, like, wow. We probably come across really, really weird.

Adam:

Yeah. To, like, people who yeah. Just to imagine someone who has no technical base, like, they have no knowledge on that front, and then trying to parse, like, what you say on Twitter, that would be tough.

Dax:

It's like I'd make a sarcastic joke about something technical, and they're like Yeah.

Adam:

There's no way for

Dax:

them to understand that. Unfurl that. Yeah.

Adam:

Uh-huh. But then, like, all these people liking it and retweeting it. It's like, wow.

Dax:

It's super confusing. Yeah. It's

Adam:

really weird. Alien. Like I

Dax:

wanna find this equivalent in another bubble so I can experience it. Like, architecture Twitter. There's some something like that.

Adam:

Because when I think of Twitter, I do think, like, the tech presence is huge on Twitter. Is there other communities that that's their primary outlet is Twitter? I'm sure. I just do you know of any?

Dax:

FinTech Twitter is kinda on there. But I feel like they're so similar to Tech Twitter and, like, there's so much overlap that I could, like, understand what they're talking about. I'm interested in what they're talking about. And their Okay. Vibe is similar to ours.

Dax:

So I've seen that one. Yeah.

Adam:

What about, like, doctors? I want, like, a trade that's, like, totally disconnected, but they all hang out on Twitter. Like, they're not an Internet profession.

Dax:

I would love to see doctors being,

Adam:

like Is there is there such a thing?

Dax:

LOL. I accidentally killed my patient today. Happens to all of us. I was quote reading it. Oh, that

Adam:

sucks. But, like, you know, it happens to me too. Yeah. I need to find I need to be exposed. Because you can't really like, the way social graphs work, you can't just, like, be dropped into the middle of, like Yeah.

Dax:

I know. That. You know

Adam:

what I mean? You could see, like, a stray tweet here and there, and you could see the people interacting with it. But you can't experience a timeline like someone in that unless you're looking over someone's shoulder. You gotta know somebody.

Dax:

This is a feature I've wanted where I could pick someone on Twitter Mhmm. And see their timeline.

Adam:

Like they allow you to?

Dax:

No. Because you can see all their follow you'd like you know who they're following. That's public. So I wanna just have something that generates a feed so I can, like, view through their eyes, you know?

Adam:

Isn't there, like, some algorithmic magic happening, though? It's not just, like, every tweet from all the

Dax:

people It's not just that, but I feel that would get close.

Adam:

Yeah. I guess so.

Dax:

The the like, the non for you tab, whatever the other one's called? Yeah. I've always wanted that because I'm like, I do wonder what the how this person sees.

Adam:

Yeah. We need to see life from their eyes.

Dax:

Yeah. That would be a great feature. Elon, if you're listening to this

Adam:

podcast Why'd you stop and say podcast?

Dax:

Because I I forgot what it was called. I forgot the word.

Adam:

If you're listening to this podcast. It was like, like, on an automated phone system when they, like it's like they've recorded the little, like, natural sentences, and they drop in the word that's, like, dynamic.

Dax:

That's really funny.

Adam:

So that sound like

Dax:

Our, our rhythm is so different when you make fun of me. It, like, feels like we're entering a different dimension.

Adam:

Because it takes me so long to get there. No. Not that.

Dax:

It's just like

Adam:

Oh, just I don't make funny you much.

Dax:

Just like the vibe is is yeah. It just, like, totally shifts.

Adam:

Oh, it's funny. I wish I wasn't sick. I hate being sick. I mean, it's allergies, probably.

Dax:

But What? Is that is that serious? I don't think it's allergies. Is it the middle of winter? Like, what allergies?

Dax:

Isn't everything dead?

Adam:

I don't know. I mean, it's been getting it's been getting warmer. I do feel like every year, I start getting this, like, allergy. No. This isn't.

Adam:

This is something else, but I start getting allergies when it starts to warm up.

Dax:

Mhmm. Like,

Adam:

when the weather changes drastically, that I can't because I don't wanna offend people.

Dax:

What? What are you talking about? No. You have to say it now.

Adam:

You know, and there's, like, people in our little sphere that are kind of in our sphere, but, like, I'm not really, like, friendly with them. And there's just things I wanna say, but I'm not gonna say it because it's like a podcast. Like, people listen to it. You know? People listen.

Dax:

Hey. Brian Johnson says you need more haters. If you don't have haters, you're not going hard enough.

Adam:

But I don't wanna create, like, rifts in our little community,

Dax:

you know? Maybe you're being a narcissist because you think that you're so important that you could create a rift.

Adam:

No. I just I gotta try a

Dax:

different angle. I'm just trying to see what you're into saying.

Adam:

Yeah. No. I'm not gonna say it. It was like multiple things came to mind. I just looked at something on my computer, and, like, more than one person, I just wanna say something, but I'm not gonna say it.

Adam:

And, you know, it's tough. It's tough filtering yourself for the Internet.

Dax:

Can can you tell me after?

Adam:

Oh, sure. Yeah. Of course. Part of our phone calls that we don't record or stream. Yeah.

Adam:

I don't know. I feel like I have a pretty measured take on people. I I feel like I have a pretty good read because I don't know if I've said this before. I generally like people. Like, my default is I really like people, even people.

Adam:

Like, my wife doesn't like a lot of people. She has to, like, work She has to, like, work phrase

Dax:

that you were like, I generally like people, even my wife.

Adam:

No. No. No. No. No.

Adam:

My wife, her default is not to like people. It's like they have to earn it.

Dax:

You know

Adam:

what I mean? For me, like Right. I'm like a puppy, and I come into any new encounter with somebody, and I just immediately like them. And they have to really, like, make me not like them, like, shake me off with a stick kind of thing. This is that thing where I take forever to get to a point.

Adam:

What else I oh, yeah. So I generally like people. So when I don't like somebody for specific reasons in my brain a

Dax:

big deal.

Adam:

I feel like there's a reason. It's not like I'm saying that person is bad or that they're universal. Just that, like, I have a pretty good read on people. I don't know. I know that because I don't know why I wouldn't like

Dax:

them. I I agree with you. I think having seen you, if you don't like someone, that's, like, a big signal. If I don't like someone, not very surprising. But if we don't like someone,

Adam:

it's like, you know I think there's something there. Something they could work on. And I should just be a good communicator and take it to them and say, hey, listen. There's something about It

Dax:

would be so funny it would be so funny if you give this exact exact speech to them. Like, hey, I'm someone that generally really likes people. For you, for whatever reason, I don't like you. You might wanna think about that, and that's all you said.

Adam:

I would never say that. I'm too I'm too nonconfrontational. I'm too midwestern. I'm not an east coaster like me. I don't just say stuff.

Dax:

Midwesterners are fake.

Adam:

It's true. I mean, it really is. It's a big glossy LinkedIn layer of fake.

Dax:

LinkedIn layer. LinkedIn was invented in the Midwest?

Adam:

It probably was. I wouldn't be surprised.

Dax:

Okay. Well, I wanna get off now so you can tell me what

Adam:

Okay. Yeah. What you how to get off anyway.

Dax:

What you saw.

Adam:

Yeah. I'll tell you what I saw. I it it feels like, like, when I have these thoughts, it just feels mean. But it's not mean. It's just like

Dax:

I have, like, a thought on this concept. Yeah. Do you notice and maybe this is a me thing, but a lot of people are related to this. If you're out and you're listening to any 2 people talking, you're, like, they sound like a bunch of idiots. But, like, it sounds so stupid.

Dax:

You just drop on your name. It sounds so dumb. Yeah. And I bet people listen to you. You're just like, it sounds so stupid.

Dax:

It's true. For some reason, when people aren't in your circle, they just sound dumb. And you're just, like, this person sucks. You know?

Adam:

No. Yeah. For sure. I think about that all the time. Like, if my wife ever listens to our podcast, she's just gonna think I'm an idiot.

Dax:

Well, that's a different problem. But

Adam:

Well, yeah. It's true.

Dax:

No. I'm just kidding. So I think that that's what it is. You know? It's not me.

Dax:

It's just the reality of

Adam:

Well, these are people these are people in my circle. They're not outside my circle. That's the problem.

Dax:

Like, in in your circle?

Adam:

Yeah. Like, in ish. In you know how

Dax:

I In in in but not in. Like, in but ish.

Adam:

But this is like, I think this is an important distinction because it is interesting, like, there's your immediate circle. There's, like, they have very close friends. And then there's, like, this broader, weird amoeba that is like, we all kinda belong to the same crowd because we're all on Twitter and we're all devs or whatever. But, like, I don't know. I wouldn't choose to hang out with a lot of them.

Adam:

But, like, how do I say this? I can't. Never mind. Can't go any further.

Dax:

Yeah. This is also I'm writing another thing. So do you know what the like, the like, the graph partitioning problem is?

Adam:

The this is exact. I don't know I don't know what it is. But you just nailed the words the yes. Go ahead.

Dax:

So, like, if you have a bunch of nodes and they're interconnected, let's say, it's like like a literal example could be like a like a social network, like friends of friends and, like, you draw a graph and you connect anything. And you have to draw a line that cleanly splits the graph in half. And it's like Yeah. You can do it maybe decently, but you're gonna, like

Adam:

Decently. Cross. There's gonna be stragglers or there's gonna be some cut out.

Dax:

Yeah. Exactly. Uh-huh. And it's like it's it's an NP hard problem. Right?

Dax:

It's like something that's not, yes. You can't really do it effectively. And so why getting to get technical graph databases never took off that much because you can't partition them across multiple servers easily.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

But you can get close, and this is what that is.

Adam:

It's exactly what it is. And when when there are the few moments when we all get together in person, it makes those things stand out. And, again, not like, there's bad people that shouldn't be in this group. It's that, like, you just as a person, you're never gonna vibe with everybody.

Dax:

Yeah. I hate

Adam:

saying the word vibe because I feel so Gen z. But, like, you're never gonna connect and really resonate with a with every single person that you should. Maybe you should in the sense that, like, they have similar interests. They have similar whatever. You're similar stages of life.

Adam:

You're in a group that all shares a lot in common. You're not gonna connect with all of them in the same way. So when you do all get together, it just makes for, like, some awkward, you're gonna end up with people that you just don't really connect with that well. Anyway,

Dax:

I'm gonna stop. It's so complicated. Like, 2 people can get along well, but then, like, that person might not get along nicely with another person. Yeah. And it it is very complex.

Dax:

And the other funny thing is even in a group where it's working well let's say it's a group of, like, 5 people and you got you always hang out and it's always a great time. There's also situations where, like, for whatever reason, like, 3 of them left the room, and then you're with a person that you realize you never wanna wanna interact with.

Adam:

Yeah. So

Dax:

you've never know that could go years you would never notice this. And then you're in that situation, you're like, this is really weird. I am extremely uncomfortable.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, every every person brings out different parts of you. And when you're in a group and you're always together in that group, you're a different person than when you're with one of them alone or any one of them. So, yeah, it it's, it's interesting, the the graph thing.

Adam:

I just as soon as you said that, graph partitioning or whatever you said, it's like that is the that's the problem. It's exactly the problem. All these interconnected nodes, everybody has relationships with everybody in different ways, and then you try to all get together and and then parts of it splits off, and then you end up yeah. I mean, you should just tough it out and be like, whatever. I can learn to enjoy being around anybody.

Adam:

But you can't. You just can't. Some people just kinda get on It's just hard. Their own side.

Dax:

We're gonna experience this at, React Miami because everyone's gonna be over my house. Yeah. And I know. I think that one should be fine, but, yeah, we'll see. You never know.

Adam:

You do have, like, a very strict invite thing you're doing. I had to, like, fill out a form. It was like, what's your name? And I'm like, I just wanna put something stupid here. Name and email address.

Dax:

You did put something stupid. You put Adam Elmore in there.

Adam:

Oh, stop it. It's not stupid

Dax:

to name that stupid.

Adam:

I mean,

Dax:

I just don't wanna, like, send out my address to a bunch of random people. Yeah. No. That's a good idea.

Adam:

I think putting a little, little barrier there is good.

Dax:

Everyone at your house is chat invited.

Adam:

Is it gonna be at your current house?

Dax:

Well, it's actually if I move, I have to update the invite and move like, bump it up by two numbers. Guys, major change in venue. It's now, like, just 50 feet to the left. That's funny. Okay.

Dax:

Alright.

Adam:

Let's go. Let's end it abruptly and awkwardly. Alright. Goodbye. See you.

Creators and Guests

Adam Elmore
Host
Adam Elmore
AWS DevTools Hero and co-founder @statmuse. Husband. Father. Brother. Sister?? Pet?!?
Twitter Website Link
Dax Raad
Host
Dax Raad
building @SST_dev and @withbumi
Twitter Website Link
Chris Enns
Editor
Chris Enns
I edit podcasts so you don't have to.
Twitter LinkedIn Mastodon Instagram Website Link
Do We Need More Haters? Why is SST Using Bun? And Does Adam Need Drugs?

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