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New Banana Ice Cream, Coffee Partners, Google IO and OpenAI, and Opportunity Costs for Engineers

/ 01:25:40/E92
Adam:

I don't write anything down. It's all dependent on what I remember. I remember some things, for sure. Just give me a sec. Okay.

Adam:

This is the the beauty of editing. Thank you, Chris. Like, it'll just seem like I just thought of it immediately, but it's gonna take me a good 30 seconds there. He he he's all

Dax:

he whenever you say that, he

Adam:

just gonna leave this whole thing in. Yeah. He just trolls us. I love it so much.

Dax:

Did you change your camera position? You're so close to your face now. You're trying to

Adam:

match Not just my camera position. I move my desk. Like, I'm in a different corner of the room. I kinda hate it. Like, I mean, I kinda hate that, like, everything is different, like, from a camera standpoint.

Adam:

It's nice, though, because it's in the corner of my room now, and I have so much more room in my office for walking around, which I don't do, For making coffee? I don't know. I do hate I don't have my teleprompter, so I'm not looking at you anymore, which bothers me greatly.

Dax:

But we don't really I don't I've never looked at you. So

Adam:

I know. You've always yeah. So I'm just it's mutual now. We're just not looking at each other.

Dax:

Yeah. Well, how about does the background look good? I mean, I can't really tell because it's super blurred. My background? I think you, like, built your background around your desk being in front of it.

Dax:

Right?

Adam:

Yeah. You can still see most all that stuff. It's just oriented a little differently because of the angle. But, yeah, I mean, the background is fine. It's all blurred out.

Adam:

You can't really see it anyway.

Dax:

Nice. So how much coffee you've been drinking?

Adam:

Oh my god. Okay. That's why if you saw, I mean, if you reacted in any way to my message earlier, that I was more than ready. I I slept really good last night, like, got more sleep than normal.

Dax:

Wow.

Adam:

And then I woke up, and I taste tested, like, all the coffees. And I have so much energy, and I haven't eaten. So I I really considered, like, running around the block, like, just sprinting to, like, try and get some of it out before we start recording. I'm a little nervous about how much, I'm, like, literally shaking. Like, my hand I've got, like, a little vibration going.

Dax:

Didn't you already do this yesterday? I feel like you've I feel there's been, like, 3 days in a row where you woke up and you were like, I tried all of them.

Adam:

I've done it more than once. Yes. It's just it's very it's it's nerve racking. I don't wanna get the wrong, like, I don't wanna make the wrong choice here. I think I think our partner is gonna just make it for us.

Adam:

I think that's gonna be better. And I could stop stressing. But we're getting ready to, like, order bags, like, thousands of coffee bags, and we don't wanna screw this up. You know

Dax:

what I mean? Yeah. It's funny because I think I remember when, he was first getting into the coffee business. So for context, we're working with my friend who, now has a big coffee roasting business. I know him because he founded a like a messaging company.

Dax:

I used to work there.

Adam:

I didn't know this. I didn't know your backstory with him. That's awesome.

Dax:

Yeah. This company called Inbox, and it was just a messaging app. This is, like, during the era of, like, there's being a 1,000,000 messaging apps and, like, kind of, WhatsApp eventually won. But it was around that time and it was like more than a messaging app, but it had like a bunch of, like, real time features. A lot of my experience from distributed systems comes from my work there.

Dax:

It was, probably the one thing I'd ever worked on that was at, like, large consumer scale. Yeah. And it was really fun. It was a fun project. It was not successful.

Dax:

Like, you just have to be massively successful or something like that to to work. So I ended up not working now.

Adam:

Is he a developer?

Dax:

No. He's not. Oh, okay.

Adam:

No. No. No. Because I just realized,

Dax:

like He was a CEO.

Adam:

I had to okay.

Dax:

Got it. No.

Adam:

No. No. The CEO. Got it.

Dax:

His whole family is just, like, the most entrepreneurial family, like, I've ever met. Like, his dad, just has, like, a bunch of different businesses, and the rest of it is kind of how they operate. But he ended up doing, like, a bunch of stuff. And then at one point he was like, I'm going to open up a coffee shop. Not a roaster necessarily.

Dax:

They were focused on building a coffee shop. Obviously, you're gonna roast your own beans if you if you do that. And they went through this, like, crazy process. There was some kind of, like I I forgot the title, but he worked with some I guess, like, it was a kind some kind of coffee sourcer. And I remember they did this, like, tasting, but it wasn't the point of the tasting wasn't to make coffee.

Dax:

They did something else with the bean and it was like a completely different process and resulted in something different. And I think when you taste it, that, like, highlights the differences in the beans more. It was, like, some weird they, like, create something and had to, like, crack it. Don't know. It was, like, a really weird thing.

Dax:

But I remember him doing that. This was, like, such a long time ago. And then now they kind of they still have the coffee shop, and now they're, like, doing all

Adam:

the awesome things. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those cool things where, like, once they have a physical space, can just do a 1,000,000 things there. So they, like Yeah. I remember they even had, like, yoga sessions there and, like, all all kinds of stuff.

Dax:

But, obviously, most of the money comes from more stuff on the wholesale side.

Adam:

Yeah. I'm very excited to be partnering with he's like a coffee nerd. Like, he knows coffee things.

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

And it makes me very self conscious when I'm, like, saying anything about coffee now because I've seen his, like, cool chemistry looking setup. And he says cool things like, I'm gonna cup them all today, and I'll get back to you. I'm like, oh, man. This guy. Oh, is that what he's cupping, coughing.

Adam:

He means, like, he's gonna make some of each. Like, he's testing. He's tasting

Dax:

them all.

Adam:

He's gonna, like, roast them or he's gonna, like, brew them all, and he called it cupping them. And I'm like, now I'm gonna say that to people. Oh, let me cup some of that coffee, and I'll let you know. I'll get back to you.

Dax:

Yeah. It's funny because I think it's not like he was a huge coffee nerd going into it. I think he was interested enough in it. And then by having a business, you just Yeah. Get interested in it because you have to.

Dax:

And then now he's just genuinely into it.

Adam:

That's how things should work. Right? That's how, like, the it's like you don't get a job that's your passion. You develop the passion. And we talked about this.

Adam:

I feel like we've talked about this. But, like, I wasn't a passionate developer when I started writing code. I just, like, got into it, and then you become very passionate about it when you spend 10 hours a day doing it your entire life. Yeah.

Dax:

It's funny because people are always like, oh, what industry are you interested in working in? I've worked in so many because as a software engineer, you work in a bunch of industries. Yeah. And every single time you show up not interested in it at all, and then once you start working there, you just start going deeper and deeper, and you get, like, super interested in it because, like, everything in the world is interesting.

Adam:

Yeah. It really is. It's a cool profession in that way. I don't know if other professions get a taste of that, but, like, we get to kinda, like, dive in deep on all kinds of different subjects and kind of get obsessed with them for a while while you work on that thing. And then you know all these random things about industries that, like, you may never work in it again, but when someone's like, you know, property and casualty insurance, it's a crazy industry.

Adam:

I'm like, yeah. I actually do. Let me tell you about what I know about property and casualty insurance.

Dax:

I mean, we're doing that with coffee right now.

Adam:

Yeah. We're deep diving.

Dax:

Yeah. It's especially funny for me because why would I know anything about coffee? I'm actively avoiding drinking it. Yeah.

Adam:

You're the CEO of a coffee company. Well, are we a coffee company? I guess we are a coffee company. But, like, we're bigger than that, like, eventually. Right?

Adam:

For now. For now. Oh, I guess I'll stop there. Yeah.

Dax:

It's, yeah. It's funny because every time, we've been getting all these samples and Liz will try it and shove all these comments and I'll try it, I'm like, yep. It tastes just like all the other coffee I ever had in my whole life. I don't like it. Yeah.

Dax:

Like, you know what? To me, it really feels like you guys are just making stuff up.

Adam:

Like, it's a thigh up.

Dax:

You're having all this back and forth about, like, to me, what tastes like a weird flavor and too much water. That's, like, what it tastes like to me. That's what coffee tastes like to me.

Adam:

I mean, objectively, coffee is not a good taste. But, like, you become adapted to it. Like, you I started drinking it out of social pressure. All my family drinks coffee, and I just felt bad at family gatherings. Like, we get together, like, 3, 4 times a year, and it's like everybody's like, oh, this coffee is so good.

Adam:

And I'm like, man, I can't bond over this coffee thing. So then I start drinking it. And it's like, at first, it's terrible. But then you start to really enjoy it. I don't know.

Adam:

I don't know if you enjoy the taste so much as, like, the effect and that just association with the taste and the effect of caffeine. Like, I don't know if you could ever really get into the taste of coffee. I don't think you'd get into it if you just drank decaf. Like, I don't you'd be like, this bitter coffee is delicious. I think, like, it's the caffeine feeling.

Adam:

It's the drug. Right?

Dax:

That's really crazy. Because I don't think because, I

Adam:

mean, there's a lot of things

Dax:

in the world that are acquired taste, and I don't think I've ever acquired a taste. So I just

Adam:

You just refuse to acquire anything?

Dax:

I don't it's not it's just like it's not a conscious refusal. It's just like I just haven't happened for me. So this concept of an acquired taste is really confusing.

Adam:

I missed that. I gotta take to see if that's true. There's gotta be something in programming that you've developed and acquired like, I 3 or something. I don't know. Like, something that's objectively bad.

Adam:

Not that I

Dax:

think it's bad.

Adam:

But there's, like, there's gotta be something you use that's, like, it's not good, but you've acquired a taste for it.

Dax:

I mean, all of Linux, maybe?

Adam:

Yeah. Exactly. The art.

Dax:

But it is objectively good.

Adam:

Yeah. I know. I knew you're gonna say, like, whatever it is. Whatever you

Dax:

used for the

Adam:

last decade, you're gonna love it.

Dax:

It's a difference because that just feels like there's a high learning curve, which to me feels different than, like,

Adam:

for me. There's a high learning curve for coffee.

Dax:

For coffee? Okay.

Adam:

Yeah. Just gotta learn to like the you so you when you taste the different blends, like, you've tasted different coffees back to back, I presume?

Dax:

Not really. I haven't, like, actually tried to, like, like, yeah, have that experience.

Adam:

Like, you don't think you could actually taste the difference in 2 different very different tasting coffees? I'm I'm

Dax:

sure I could, but in both so I'll taste one, taste the other. And I'm so overwhelmed by the feeling of disgust that, like, I just it's hard for me to, like, dig through that and say this one is, like, this

Adam:

yeah. I find this disgusting. To me. Oh, so good.

Dax:

It's funny, though, because coffee ice cream, I love. I love I love the smell, and I love things that are made

Adam:

of coffee. The smell? Yeah. And, like, coffee flavored candy. Anything coffee flavored, people do generally enjoy.

Adam:

Yeah. It's just when it's hot and and, like, bitter and actual drink, Not so much.

Dax:

I I would love to somehow make coffee ice cream from our our coffee. It's, like, too hard to sell, but it could be a

Adam:

You know what? We that reminds me. We've got this new device. It's, like, my favorite kitchen appliance ever. I think it's only been in the last couple of years they've started making them.

Adam:

We have always made banana ice cream. Have I told you this?

Dax:

Yeah. You mentioned that. Yeah. Not so good.

Adam:

So it's so good. So we would make it in, like, our Vitamix blender. We've had a Vitamix for, like, 10 years, just like everything you've done for 10 years. We've had a Vitamix for 10 years, and we love it. We've actually we're on our second one.

Adam:

We actually wore the first one out. So we make it in the Vitamix, but, like, by the time it blends up the frozen bananas, there's no way to get, like, a consistent blend without kind of melting it a little bit. The the blades are at the bottom, and it just kinda, like, eventually it gets pretty melty, like, by the time you're eating it. It's still delicious, but, like, that's how we've always known banana ice cream. And then Ninja, this company, Ninja, if you see me, Ninja stuff.

Adam:

Yeah. I guess they sell these on TikTok. So thank you to my wife for being on TikTok. That's the one good thing that's come out of TikTok. She saw this thing, and it, like, it has a spinning blade at the top of these canisters, and it pushes down through a frozen block.

Adam:

So you freeze, like, you preblend something. Okay? So, like, we blend up the bananas with the flavors that we want, peanut butter ice cream or whatever. And then you freeze it as a solid block in this little, like, canister, and then the blade, like, moves down through it as it spins. Oh.

Adam:

Does that make sense? Like, it's Yeah. Yeah. Going all the way down the canister. Yeah.

Adam:

It's called oh, I have no idea, actually.

Dax:

Oh, is is it specifically for making ice cream?

Adam:

Yes. And it makes the most, like, from the store ice cream consistency ever. It's just like just like you scoop you scoop it out with an ice cream scoop, and it makes, like, perfect ice cream

Dax:

scoop. Ninja creamy?

Adam:

Yes. That's it. It's so awesome. Like, the the consistency difference, it stays frozen for much longer. So, anyway, just like homemade ice cream That was

Dax:

really good.

Adam:

Wow. So good. I recommend it. I wish they sponsored us so

Dax:

we got something out of this. So is that the process for no matter what kind even if you're making it, like, with milk? You just mix it, freeze it, and then

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah. With whatever you're making. Yeah. You just pre freeze.

Adam:

You have all these little canisters in your freezer. We've got, like, 10 of them. And you just make different ice creams. But, like, it's just you blend up a liquid or not a liquid, but, like, something that you can freeze.

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah. You get it. I'm way over explaining it.

Dax:

That's cool. Yeah. My mom had an ice cream maker and even that like, this was, like, when I was growing up kind of, and then even that was really good. Like, homemade ice cream is really, really good.

Adam:

It's really good. Casey literally makes more than one every day. Like, someone is eating that stuff every single day. We have cans, like, of stuff pre frozen filling our freezer. It's awesome.

Dax:

With the banana ice cream, do you have to add sugar? Because bananas are already kinda sweet.

Adam:

No. Yeah. The bananas are the sweetness. Yeah.

Dax:

Oh, nice.

Adam:

Like, we do, like, coconut cherry. We do, like or not coconut. Cococherry, like, cocoa powder, bananas, cherries. That's a big one we do. Peanut butter.

Adam:

Yeah. It's they're delicious. Highly recommended. Any smoothie recipe, basically, can make, like, a custom ice cream with the ninja creamy thing.

Dax:

That's wait. Could you put, like this is messed up, but could you make, like, a green juice one where it's, like, broccoli

Adam:

and kale? And you could make it into ice cream? We generally put spinach in, like, everything because you can't taste it. So, like, we want our boys to get the the benefits of the greens. Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah. And it just makes everything green. It's like every day Saint Patrick's Day around here. It's fun, but you can't taste it.

Dax:

Yeah. I used to do that. I used to make for lunch every day, I used to make, chicken. Like, I used to take ground chicken and make, like, chicken patties and then have it in a sandwich. And at some point, I just started throwing a bunch of spinach

Adam:

in there because, like

Dax:

Yeah. Why not? It looks horrible, though. It makes it come out this, like, disgusting green color, but, like, it doesn't change the flavor at all. So

Adam:

It is funny how just the appearance of food can, like even if it didn't taste any different, it can really affect how it, like, goes down for you. Like like, I don't wanna eat things if they look a certain way. Even if, you know, it's good for you and it doesn't affect the taste, it can make it harder.

Dax:

No. It's, it taps into all of our senses.

Adam:

Mhmm. We have a lot to talk about. We don't always have a lot

Dax:

to talk about.

Adam:

Do we have a lot

Dax:

to talk about?

Adam:

I mean, I do.

Dax:

Bring it. Bring it.

Adam:

Bring it. Bring it. Caffeine in my system.

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

Okay. Where do I start? We haven't said that this this episode is sponsored by Terminal. Get your coffee. Terminal dot shop.

Dax:

But you can't actually do that.

Adam:

Well, no. Actually, you can't buy coffee right now because we're

Dax:

not Unless you're, like, a super fan that discovers in the future and and or you're watching all the episodes.

Adam:

Oh. This

Dax:

is all

Adam:

the episodes. Trouble possible. This is not a thing I wanna talk about. But I saw an article the other day that was, like, somebody discovered theoretically possible time travel or something. And that's, like, the thing about time travel.

Adam:

Right? It's it's always been theoretically possible?

Dax:

No. I think it's my understanding back when I was, like, super into physics, Going forward Going forward, obviously, is is definitely possible.

Adam:

Oh, wait, wait, wait. You just said that, like, it was so obvious. Definitely possible. What's the thing about going forward that's possible that's not backward?

Dax:

Well, it's like if you this concept of, you know, there's a concept of time dilation. Like, we've proven that where, like, different points in space can experience time at a different speed.

Adam:

Right. By watching a

Dax:

movie in your cellar. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. So that that guy effectively traveled to the future in that movie.

Adam:

Yeah. Okay.

Dax:

Yeah. And and this happens with with astronauts. Like, astronauts age, like, a tiny amount less.

Adam:

Right. That's actually okay. I've listened to a book, where they talk about, like, 2 twins, 1 on the top of a mountain Yeah. The other at sea level. And, like, they technically In

Dax:

order of time? Yeah. In the order of time or whatever? I think

Adam:

that is it. Yeah. Wait. I thought you only listened to, like, 10 books.

Dax:

It's one of them. Is this one of them? Yeah. Oh, wait. Did you did you listen to it or did you read it?

Adam:

I listened to everything. Is it like car or Carla Ravelli or

Dax:

whatever it is? Yeah. But Yeah. Yeah.

Adam:

I don't know if you remember, but do you remember that the narration was exceptionally good? I mean, yeah. Do you do you know this person?

Dax:

Well, it's, it's, like, a extremely famous actor

Adam:

that narrates it with, like, a we've got, like,

Dax:

a fantastic voice. Benedict Cumberbatch?

Adam:

I don't know if you've I'm trying to think what he would have seen. Cumberbatch? Yeah. Yeah. Wait.

Adam:

He did that one? Yes. He did do that one. I love when he narrates a book.

Dax:

I found the book terrifying because it's already, like, crazy existential and, like,

Adam:

really bizarre.

Dax:

And then his voice. Yeah. It's it's really scary.

Adam:

Yeah. Really good audible book. If you're in to listening to books, that that one's worth your credit. Like, I mean, it's Benedict Cumberbatch. So, like, you feel like you're watching a movie the whole time, but it's, like, crazy facts about time that blow your mind.

Dax:

Yeah. In a completely useless way.

Adam:

He talks in that book about, like, you're if you're on a ship traveling at speed of light, like, the difference in time for that person versus someone back on earth. It just the whole thing just blows your mind. Like, the entire time, my mind is just it it just hurts.

Dax:

Yeah. It's crazy that all that stuff is true. Like, it's actually really bizarre and, like

Adam:

Seems like science fiction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's all

Dax:

it's all accurate. That that that's always been my understanding.

Adam:

How did we get on time?

Dax:

You said that you saw someone that said time travel is possible. And I I I was talking about a future podcast listener.

Adam:

Oh, right. Right. Right. Yeah. So a future podcast listener who's sipping on one of our oh, I don't wanna leak things.

Adam:

They're sipping on coffee that we sold, and they're listening to us like, these silly guys, they don't know anything about time travel. And I figured it out.

Dax:

Anyway, this episode is sponsored by Terminal. But in the future, you can buy it.

Adam:

In the future, you will be able to buy it very soon. Well, I don't know. It depends on your definition of very soon. Things I wanna talk about. I don't write anything down.

Adam:

It's all dependent on what I remember. I remember some things, for sure. Just give me a sec. This is the the beauty of editing. Thank you, Chris.

Adam:

Like, it'll just seem like I just thought of it immediately, but it's gonna take me a 30

Dax:

seconds. Whenever you say

Adam:

that, he's just gonna leave this whole thing in. Yeah. He just trolls us. I love it so much. One of the things was actually about it would have been so good to just bring it up when we were in the middle talking about software engineering as a profession.

Adam:

I didn't. I've let lots of things happen between then and now, but I'm gonna do it. Just whatever. We're jumping back into it. The hardest thing about being a software developer, I as I I thought about this this morning, as I have, like, 4 active projects going on, is, like, this idea of, like, opportunity cost, I guess.

Adam:

Just, like, constantly feeling like there's a million things you could do. Like, we're, like, the most leveraged, profession in history, aren't we? Like Mhmm. We can, as an individual, do so much. I'm not, like, bragging.

Adam:

This isn't like a I don't know. I'm not saying, like, we're so great. Everyone else is so, whatever, peasants. But, like, we just have this ability to, like, completely shape the world around us in ways that I just don't know a 100 years ago if anyone had this ability. And there's tons of us, and we can just, like, wake up and choose to work on a a hundred different things at any given time.

Adam:

And you're gonna you're gonna select some subset of those things that you could be doing, and you're constantly gonna feel like, am I using my time most efficiently? Do you feel like this?

Dax:

Well, now that you said all that, I feel bad saying no. I don't feel that.

Adam:

No. No. No. It's fine. No.

Adam:

I I didn't run this by anybody. I just these were thoughts.

Dax:

I get what you're talking about, but I feel like I just don't even have time to think about that. I'm just like.

Adam:

Yeah.

Dax:

There's just, like, so much like, things fly around. You just work on whatever you can in, like, the moment. I feel like I don't have time to step back and reflect.

Adam:

And that's what I think my thought was this morning was, like, my process for choosing every day what I'm gonna really, like, push on is basically just, like, what do I wanna push on? Like, what do I feel like I could just, like, fly on right now? Because any day where I try to, like, okay, I'm working on this thing today, it just goes poorly because, like, that's not the thing I wanna work on, and I end up, like, I don't know, having less productive a day because I was just trying to force something. So, like, on a Thursday when I feel like yesterday was not the best, I'm just gonna, like, do the thing I wanna do, and I'm gonna get a lot more done that way and feel really good about it. Yeah.

Adam:

I don't know. Is that like, you've got multiple things going on. Do you see my tweet about this?

Dax:

I, like, tweeted something almost exactly this, like, 2 days ago Today? Like a day ago.

Adam:

No. This is a

Dax:

couple days ago. I wrote

Adam:

You tweet a lot, man. It's hard to keep up. I do. I know. Like, I wanna keep up.

Adam:

I I I have notifications turned on. I follow them. But it's just like, I'll see one all the time where it's like, I didn't even see this one. This was a good one.

Dax:

I said that everything needs to get done. The order doesn't matter. Just pick what you wanna do and go.

Adam:

Oh, I did see that one. So maybe it subliminally started this train of thought for me.

Dax:

Uh-huh. Because it's just it just doesn't matter. Like, sometimes at SST we're like talking about all these things and when you step back in a long term, it actually doesn't matter at all what order they happen in. Like, yeah, maybe there's like little things you can line up and it's technically correct, but, like, you definitely can mess it up, but like that just, it seems way more likely that your plan is actually inefficient because your motivation day to day is different. So, yeah, it's really freeing just to, like, work on what you want.

Adam:

Can I counterpoint here? I think every developer could relate with this. It does matter in the areas where you touch the outside world. So, like, I have 4 very active things right now that I'm working on, and it's 4 completely different groups of people, stakeholders, if you will. So they care what order I do it in.

Adam:

You know what I mean? Like like, the teams that that are involved ultimately might have a a care. You know? It's like I decided I'm just gonna work on 1 for a month. They'd be like, you know, maybe

Dax:

don't do that. I think with a lot of these things that I say, I'm not expressing a truth about the world. I think I'm more expressing the thing I won't trade off, the thing that I'll like change. I'll change everything else before I change this type of thing.

Adam:

Oh, I see.

Dax:

Yeah. You're right. Of course, there are situations where, like, what I'm saying is, like, ridiculous, but I'm more likely to change a situation than to change Yeah. That. And I and I I describe it to an extreme.

Dax:

But yeah.

Adam:

I don't know. To me, it just feels, at least with the work

Dax:

I'm doing, it's it just all need to

Adam:

get done. So Yeah. It's really interesting, like, how many constraints I think can't be changed. And And then when I step back and I read one of your tweets or you say something like that, it's like, oh, yeah, everything is changeable. Like, I could literally just, like, wake up and decide I'm not doing that anymore, that kind of thing.

Adam:

I'm veiling a lot of this, but, like yeah.

Dax:

The thing I'm actually worried about is that I have gotten used to such a luxurious way of being. When I say luxurious, I mean, personally, like, I feel like so much is aligned.

Adam:

The lifestyle?

Dax:

Yeah. Like, my in terms of my work, I feel like so much is, like, aligned exactly perfectly, like who I'm working with, what I'm working on. There's just, like, there's so many, like, 1% scenarios for each one of those things. And I'm like, is there a situation where, like, that falls out of an alignment and I can't really get back there? And then I just, like, am extra miserable because I had, like, I think about, like, with SST, like, that's to me, it's a it's a great team.

Dax:

I don't ever wanna work on a team worse than that or, like, worse in any way. Worse than, like, just on the work we're doing, like, the type of relations we have with each other, like Yeah. How our personalities mesh. But that's, like, impossible. Like, that's really, really rare.

Dax:

So

Adam:

Yeah.

Dax:

I, yeah. There's there's, like, a chance that I never get that again. So that that does worry me.

Adam:

Yeah. I used to have this thought, like, I was 5, 6 years ago about remote work. Like, I I've just I started my career remote, and I'd worked at that point, you know, 5 or 6 years remote, and it was kind of like, what if this went away? What if I had to actually get a job and go somewhere? Because, like, I just didn't have a remote option anymore.

Adam:

Because back then, it wasn't like a given. It's more of a given today. But even now, I mean, there's people doing the return to office stuff, and it's like, I gotta move my family to Seattle now. That sucks. That was very transparent who I'm talking about.

Adam:

AWS. AWS did a return to office thing, and, everybody has to move to Seattle. Yeah. That it's like 5, 6 years ago, that was very much a thought that I would have, and I'd talk with Casey, like, what what happens if I just have to, like, get a job somewhere and actually not work in the home? We've had to play that out in the past.

Adam:

Well, we didn't have to. I just worry a lot. So Yeah.

Dax:

No. But that's something a part of it too. It's, yeah, just just so just when everything is, like, correct, it just feels really fragile too. Yeah. The counterpoint to that, I think, is that as your career and life goes on, you just you're building up a bigger and bigger foundation.

Dax:

So you just have more ability to choose what you want your life to be. Like, I feel like I just enter the phase where I'm like able to choose my life, like, in the past couple of

Adam:

years.

Dax:

I'm able to select certain things in my life where up till then, it wasn't like I mean, it's I feel like

Adam:

I had, like, no choice

Dax:

at all. I just had to do whatever.

Adam:

Yeah. We definitely talked about this. I don't know if we've talked about it on the podcast Mhmm.

Dax:

Or

Adam:

just in DMs. But, like, the idea that the first half of my career, and I know you've said something similar, was just, like, doing stuff. You you weren't being choosy. It was just, like, whatever anybody would pay you to do. Maybe not whatever anybody would pay you to do, but I did a lot of stuff that was just like, if you'll pay me to program, then I will do that work.

Adam:

And and then as your career goes on, you get a little older, you get to be way more selective. So maybe the thing I said earlier about, like, having so many options, maybe that's a kind of, like, first world problem, but not everybody feels that way. But at least at this stage of career, it feels like I could wake up and decide to work on any one of a 100 different things that sound like a good idea with some smart person, but, like, you have to choose a few. Have you ever wished you just had one thing going on? Sorry.

Adam:

Have I said that before?

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always think about that. I'm I'm always like, would I be just so much better if there was, like

Adam:

Is it impossible for us, like, people in our position to just choose one thing and work on that thing only?

Dax:

I think my issue is I can work many, many, many hours, but I think for me there's I get into, like, many different moods throughout those hours. Like, I might feel like working on a bunch of, like, stuff for SSD for

Adam:

a while.

Dax:

Then I might feel like working on a bunch of front end stuff. And then I might feel like working on some, like, just something not related to programming at all. Yeah. So I think And

Adam:

there's it's hard to find one project that scratches all those itches, I guess.

Dax:

Yeah. If I just have one project, I think I would just work fewer hours. I think that's the that's the result. So there's, like, a fantasy, but I don't I don't think it's real.

Adam:

So I do actually work a lot fewer hours than I used to. Like,

Dax:

that Me too.

Adam:

You know what? I had this thought, you too. I wondered if it was just because of having kids. But I have this thought The other day, I I think I thought about tweeting it even, and then I didn't. See, when I have thoughts sometimes, Dax, I just don't tweet them.

Adam:

What's that like for you? Do you just tweet every thought? No. The moment

Dax:

I think it, it's already out on Twitter. Like, it just feels like one one motion.

Adam:

You literally think straight into

Dax:

into a tweet.

Adam:

It just goes straight from your brain. Doesn't even like it's not conscious at all. Now I had this thought that, like, I used to work at least, like, I I don't know, 55, 60 hours. The I used to know the number because it was very, like, not legislative. What's the word I'm looking for?

Adam:

It had been discussed a lot with my wife. What was it? What was the word?

Dax:

No. I said transactional, but I don't think that was right.

Adam:

No. Like, like, when a judge, what what is the word? Like, it had been

Dax:

Negotiated pulp.

Adam:

I can't there's a word here, and I just can't think of it. It's gonna drive me crazy. But, like, oh, the legis no. Not legislated. What is the word?

Adam:

When someone, like, sues somebody and, like, the stuff comes up in court, there's a word you use that's like, litigated. Yes. So I used to have the number very ingrained in my brain because it had been very litigated with my wife.

Dax:

Like I see. I see.

Adam:

It did come up a lot, like, how many hours of work. But it was, like, whatever. 60 hours of work, let's say. Like, when we first started STEMI, it was, like, early start up days. It was a lot of hours.

Adam:

Had a very, young family, so, like, just a baby. Just one one baby. And it was, like, work a ton. And then that's been, like, cut in half over the last decade to the point where I have very little hours that I actually work. Like, I feel like compared to then, I work a lot less hours.

Adam:

But you know what it did for me? It just, like, made me not have any distractions because I don't have time for any distractions. Like, I don't have fluff in my day anymore. I still probably, like, wish I had a little bit more bandwidth sometimes. But, like, when I worked so much well, I guess, now that I think about it, this is totally invalid.

Adam:

I just lied because when I was working 60 hours a week, it's not like I was, like, distracted. Like, I was just literally working

Dax:

that much more.

Adam:

You know

Dax:

the answer is? I I think I I've gone through the exact same thing. I think back to, like, what I spent so many, like I've spent several years where I would just, like, wake up on my laptop, fall asleep with my laptop, wake up my

Adam:

I was like, what

Dax:

the hell

Adam:

was I doing? It turns out I was just dumb. I was just a lot dumber back then. I think that's a really answer. That's what it is.

Adam:

We're getting better.

Dax:

Yes. I think that's a real answer. I think we're getting better. The technology is getting better. The same like, I can't believe like, I think back to some of the products that I've built,

Adam:

and I'm like, why did it take me so

Dax:

long? And why did

Adam:

I need to write

Dax:

it 3 times?

Adam:

Yeah. You you just tweeted something. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Today.

Adam:

Yeah. Exactly.

Dax:

Like, I'm working on we're back to working on the ST console and this, like, really simple CRUD stuff for for terminal. I'm like, this is, like, what normal work is like. This is so easy. There's nothing to think about. You know?

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. With SST, every single second of my day is like, what is the future? How do we position ourselves against it? Like, what's gonna happen? What's AI doing?

Dax:

And it just like, there's just so much, like, up in the air and vague and confusing. And then and then for, like, terminals, like

Adam:

cred thing. You're like,

Dax:

this is ecommerce sort. You need the cost of an order, product, product variance, and then that's it. Like, you just you just shove it in a database, and you're done. I'm just like, this is what most people work on. Why are they, like, just talking about all these little things all the time?

Dax:

And it's I'm actually very convinced that and I and I said this the other day deep in some thread where I think as an engineer, you have a natural desire to, like, wanna build abstractions and solve, like, engineering problems because it's fun. It's like a fun puzzle. It's very satisfying. Everyone has a desire. Yeah.

Dax:

I think what I and I remember being a lot like that. And I think and everyone has, like, different varying degrees to it. I think I I had, like, I had this, like, feeling intensely because I would definitely spend a lot of time overdoing that with, with stuff I didn't need to be doing that with. But then I got an outlet for it. Like, I got an outlet for it with SST where that, like, actually makes sense for me to, like, put the energy into.

Dax:

Yeah. So now when I go and work on something normal, I don't want any of that at all. Like, I don't I don't care about any of that. I just want it to be, like, really straightforward and simple and and and whatever. So, like, I I'm, like, not at risk of it, and I got this outlet.

Dax:

I think most engineers don't have the outlet, so they force it into whatever they're working on.

Adam:

That makes sense.

Dax:

Everyone's just kinda, like, fated to be in that in that zone.

Adam:

So that that's another benefit of having, like, a few irons on the fire, as you get to, like, scratch all these itches. And then, ultimately, your work is better for it.

Dax:

Yeah. Like, I I think the tweet that I originally posted was and I've I've noticed with off with this with a bunch of framework authors, when they when you go look at them,

Adam:

when they build, like, something normal,

Dax:

they just don't use anything anything. Like, every single framework author does not use ESLint. And if you go out and say that I don't use ESLint, a lot of

Adam:

people will be will say

Dax:

that you're wrong and you're blah blah blah blah.

Adam:

Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. But every single framework author does not use ESLint. And, like, stuff in that category, they just don't have like, when I go look at other companies' repos and I go look at their root portal repo, there's, like, 20 files in the root. And I was like, what is this? Oh, they're using, like, all this stuff.

Dax:

Yeah. And and and to me You

Adam:

have to when you have, like, a big team, and you they're all just dumb. Is that is that the idea? No. I don't think so. I don't think it's that.

Dax:

I just I just think that, like

Adam:

Sorry if I offended.

Dax:

There's, there's just they just don't have the outlet. You know? They don't have the outlet for Yeah. I I I think it's just that as much as it feels totally rational, but I think it's really like, you're definitely biased by not having an outlet for that for that energy.

Adam:

Is this also related to your, ecommerce, platform versus someone targeting ecommerce tweet? I

Dax:

don't think so.

Adam:

No? Okay. I'm reading into it. I just didn't understand that tweet. That's all.

Dax:

This well, this this reminds me of something completely different too. Did you see my other thing about how I said, I don't understand how notable open source people keep finding themselves in situations where they're not, like, super happy, like, career wise.

Adam:

No. I don't think I saw this. I probably liked it.

Dax:

I wrote to him about how, like, I don't know how notable open source people don't leverage themselves into better positions or something.

Adam:

Oh, I did see this. Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. And a bunch of people replied to me being, like saying all kinds of things. Like, oh, no. It was just for the money.

Adam:

It depends on your measure of of happy. And, like, what is success?

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. All that stuff. But, like, if if you look at what I said, I actually didn't say anything about that. I just said into better position.

Dax:

Because my whole point here was and we're talking about this earlier. Right? When you have a lot of options, you get to pick your life more.

Adam:

Mhmm.

Dax:

And and that's, like, very clear to me. It's like, if you can generate a 100 options for yourself, then you can say no to a bunch of them and, like, be really particular or, like, wait wait for the right option to come around, like, you know, kind of benefit from timing a little bit better. And I feel like when you're an open source developer, that's somewhat notable. People are just entering in your life, like, without you doing any work. There's people using your app, they're messaging you about it, they're submitting PR, just companies using it, they talk to you.

Dax:

Like, the networking part of your life is just supercharged. Right? You don't

Adam:

have to

Dax:

do anything. People just enter your life. And it's, like, crazy to me that people don't see that as, like, if I just invest, like, a little bit into, like, that part of it you don't have to do too much because you're way better served than anyone else. You can then, like, just have a ton of options and then pick whatever

Adam:

life you want. Because I

Dax:

I think I see so many open source people being, like, oh, like, I don't have time to work

Adam:

on this thing I wanna work on

Dax:

because, like, I have this job that I don't really like and, like, they're just doing it forever. And, yeah, it's it's weird to me that, like, there's, like, this career mindedness thing that you just need a little bit of, but I think a lot of people just don't have any of it.

Adam:

Yeah. I mean, I can I'm not gonna say names, but I can think of examples where I feel like they could have better situations, for sure. I'm sure everyone can think of of that just for the public perception, at least.

Dax:

Yeah. You you take some examples where it has worked out. Like, I mean, take Rich Harris, for example. Right? He made Svelte, SvelteKit, all that stuff.

Dax:

And now he's leveraged himself into a position where he can he just gets paid to work on that full time. Yeah. And if you have any kind of framework that's remotely that like, you should be able to do that too. You know?

Adam:

Yep. But, yeah, people find it difficult, I guess. Okay. That's a good segue.

Dax:

First, take a quick break while

Adam:

I pee.

Dax:

Okay.

Adam:

And this is an episode where we're I'm gonna come back after that because we got more

Dax:

to talk about, but I have to pee.

Adam:

Well, I also had a lot of caffeine. So it's maybe just earlier than normal.

Dax:

I'll be right back.

Adam:

Is it is it just pee? Because I know caffeine does other stuff to you. Yeah. Yes, Dex. This just got really weird.

Adam:

Yes. I just have to pee. I'll be right back. Okay.

Dax:

I well, before we move on, I just I was just looking at something. Did you see that GameStop GameStop stock is surging again?

Adam:

No. Is this the the Wall Street Bets thing again?

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

Robin Hood? The whole thing?

Dax:

It jumped from $10 to 50, and that roaring kitty guys back, the guy that leads all this stuff. Yeah. And this time, I'm like, I'm not just gonna watch,

Adam:

but I'm on the evil side. You have skin in the game?

Dax:

Yeah. I bought puts put options against it. Because I'm like, I we saw this play out. Definitely gonna fall. Yeah.

Dax:

We saw this play out before. Like, I bought I bought put options, like, far into the future.

Adam:

Mhmm.

Dax:

Like, I don't even know who's writing these options. Like, why the fuck would you take the other side of that? I mean, there's complicated reasons why. But, anyway, yeah. It's already, like, fallen a bunch.

Dax:

And we'll see I'm I was looking at it historically and, like, it jumped up and then crashed, like, crazy, like, crazy amount, then jumped up again almost as high. Like, these swings are crazy, and it, like, lasted. It took, like, it took a very long time for it to get back to you know, it's still actually not as low as it used to be. I don't know

Adam:

if it's

Dax:

something about the business change, but, yeah, I guess they're they're trying it again.

Adam:

Interesting.

Dax:

And they made a whole movie about it already, and, I guess now they got to make a sequel. Yeah. And and he's there too.

Adam:

Wow. I just love that you're you're in this now. Like, another trip to Europe is on the line. I love

Dax:

it. Exactly. Because a few of these come up every year in 2 weeks.

Adam:

Not this weekend, but the weekend after that. Yeah. I'm excited. Yeah. It's really interesting, actually.

Adam:

This is a, side tangent, if there is such thing on our show. But, just the idea of, like, markets have been around so long and then, like, technology has come along and, obviously, they've, like, evolved with technology, but, like, they're not really are they really evolved to the point of, like, modern day social media? I mean, obviously not. Like, this whole GameStop thing is an example where there's just, like, things weren't prepared for this level of, like, coordination and memes and it's just, like, completely broke markets. And they've now had to adapt more because of it.

Adam:

Right?

Dax:

Yeah. I mean, I would argue this is this has actually been the exact history of the market always. It's like someone finds a strategy, and it's unique and novel and it starts to produce really crazy results and the market adapts and then that strategy is no longer viable. And which is why most hedge funds, they go they, like, shut down after, like, 5 or 6 years. That's, like, the average lifetime of a hedge fund.

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. Whatever whatever works. Idea no longer works. Working.

Dax:

So that's why when you see the ones that are, like, 30, 40 years old

Adam:

They're pottyscapes. Oh, I'm sorry.

Dax:

It's made up. Maybe. Or, you know, it's actually really impressive because it's it's quite hard to do something like that.

Adam:

To live that long. Yeah. Okay. So there's things I wanna talk about. Yeah.

Adam:

Or there's a thing I wanna talk about. And I I think we've talked about this before, maybe. I don't know. Does it matter? Who cares?

Adam:

Just like the idea of man, I don't wanna say this in a way that sounds like I'm, like, disagreeing with somebody because I'm not. Okay. I'm gonna use a different word.

Dax:

You are disagreeing with them. Just spit it out.

Adam:

Yeah. But it's like, I'm not I am, but I'm not you know what? Oh, I can't say that either. This is so hard. Sometimes I'm negative.

Adam:

You know what I mean? Like, sometimes I'm just I'm sometimes I'm pessimistic or I'm negative in ways that, like, I feel like I should apologize. No. I shouldn't apologize. I don't feel like I should apologize, but I feel like people think I should apologize for being negative.

Adam:

And here's my thought on it. My thought is my my wife and I figured this out because in our relationship, in our marriage, I am the optimistic, everything's gonna work out in our life, and, like, look at all that's in front of us. And I've always been that way. For 15 years, we've been married, I've always been like, oh, man. The future is so bright.

Adam:

And she, in turn, has to be like the Debbie Downer, the, like, wet blanket on my she has to pull me back down to Earth, and I need that. Or I will spin off into orbit, into some manic craziness. Like and I do sometimes. But, like, she has to kinda be like, let's put a little a little let's put the brakes on a little bit. And and I think every every situation where there's somebody to one extreme, you have to kinda like pull it back or it just gets out of balance.

Adam:

So she ends up feeling like she's constantly being a pessimist when she's not. Like, about other things in life, she wouldn't be that way, but she feels like in our relationship, she has to, like, be the, like, realistic one. And I think that's the case. I think, like, on Twitter, translating that dynamic to the Internet, I think when there's people that are just overly fluffy and toxically positive, then people have to pull it back the other way. And if I gotta be that person, I'll be that person.

Adam:

And I don't think it's right to be like, everyone should be positive all the time. If you're negative, you suck because that's stupid.

Dax:

Okay. Yeah. Oh, I have a bunch of thoughts on this. So one, I think there's this weird dynamic where okay. So when you're, like, in the position of, like, being somewhat of a public figure, people start to put all these responsibilities on you that are no one ever discussed.

Dax:

It's just kind of the people talk about it like it's just assumed. So for example, I obviously make fun of Next. Js a lot. I think they replied being, like so someone replied being, like, some of that use Next. Js, they were like, hey, like, why do you do this so much?

Dax:

Like, yeah, I don't know. They they they didn't like it. Yeah. Yeah. And my reply to them was, like, I don't have there's no I I don't there's no, like, reason that I need to, like, meet some standard that you have created in your head.

Dax:

Like, I'm just a person. And as a human, sometimes I find stuff funny, and I wanna make fun of it. Sometimes I wanna make positive about something. Sometimes I wanna shit on something. Sometimes I don't feel good, and I, like, express myself in a certain way.

Dax:

Other times, I'm very articulate. I'm just a human person, and you're okay to find some of that behavior annoying. Just like every person in your life, sometimes they're being annoying. Sometimes they're being great. Why is, like but for some reason, when it comes to, like, this type of thing, like, people have to be, like, this paragon of, like, some some some concept.

Dax:

And a lot of people put that on themselves, and they start acting in a way that I actually think is completely cowardly, if I'm just gonna be straight up. Like this, The thing that you're referring to, like, this, like, overly positive thing, to me is, like, one of the most cowardly things you can possibly do. There's so many things that just sound good to everyone that you can just constantly say over and over and over.

Adam:

Yeah. When

Dax:

we actually dig into it, they're completely devoid of meaning. They're completely devoid of risk. They're completely devoid of any kind of sacrifice or belief or thinking or, like, taking a stance or, like, you know, it it's there's so much feel good stuff out there, that people are demanding from you. Everyone wants you to, like, you know, say these things, and then

Adam:

a bunch of people say

Dax:

those things. And people are like, oh, yeah. That's so great. And you're like, you're so enlightened and and it's wise. But it's it's really not.

Dax:

So, yeah, it's just like everyone is just a person, and people are complex in different situations. They're not going to, like, be this one dimensional thing that you're demanding of them.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like it's there's a a dichotomy for me. Like, in person, I am a person from the Midwest, and I have a lot of, like, stuff I have to work through that's, like, fakeness, like a layer of glossy fakeness that I just can't, like, shed when it comes to in person social interactions.

Adam:

But on the Internet, I don't feel like I have that as much. I feel like I can just be myself or say what I actually think. So I I do have this weird, like, maybe I overcompensate for my Midwesternness on the Internet, and I'm too something at times. But I don't know. I don't I don't feel bad for saying things that are maybe negative or, like, pulling back in opposite directions from things that I feel like, sorry.

Adam:

My kids are just they're screaming so loud. It's very distracting. I don't know if it's coming through, but, one of them is very upset with the other. Maybe that's a metaphor to to

Dax:

this situation.

Adam:

Sometimes you just you're in a bad mood or something just annoys you, and it's okay to say that online. And everything I say is not gonna be, like, let's think best case scenario and be positive and

Dax:

Yeah. And it's like if people don't it, they can unfollow you. And, like, you're just you have to express yourself and everyone just can do that. And this whole thing where people are, like, trying to police being, like, that was bad. Like, I'm judging you because that was bad.

Dax:

It's really weird to do that in real life. It's, like, really, really, really weird. Like, you have friends, and sometimes they say things that are annoying, but they're still your friend. You know? If they go over the line, they stop being your friend, and that's okay, you know.

Dax:

Yeah. So it's just like it's it's really it's really weird. But that one interaction I had when I just said that, the other person was like they, like, actually heard it. They, like, they got it. They were like, oh, okay.

Dax:

Yeah. Because they're they're like, that actually does make sense. Like, I can find you annoying, and you are allowed to be annoying. It's actually that simple.

Adam:

It's that simple.

Dax:

Yeah. The other thing is, like, people love to judge moments and, like, moments can look really bad out of context. So if you are being negative because one thing happened to you once okay. I can see why someone would judge you for that. If you're being negative after like a year of frustration, that's, like, a totally different story.

Dax:

Right? So Yeah. Yeah. People just wanna, like, take, like, single sentences and be like, that was a good one or that was a bad one. And it's just it's just nothing is that simple.

Adam:

You know? It's all so complicated as I'm thinking through it because, like, it might be the first time they've seen anything from you or Yeah. The three things they've seen from you were pretty negative. And it's like, for them, it is a pattern. But, like Yep.

Adam:

They don't have the broader context. It's complicated. It's it's amazing that anybody likes anybody, actually. We're all just awful.

Dax:

That dynamic you talked about is actually so funny because I'll get comments like, oh, wow. You, like, do post smart stuff once in a while. Or, like and then

Adam:

it's to

Dax:

me, it's like, they must have just been seeing, like, all my dumb posts back to back. Because I feel like I, like, do both every single day, but there's a chance that you only see the dumb ones every day.

Adam:

You only see the dumb ones? Yeah.

Dax:

And then at one time you see a smart one, and you're like, This is, like, a totally different person than I thought they were.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

So you never come off one dimensional because of the way that whole thing works.

Adam:

Yeah. It and it's funny, like, I don't know if you do this, but there is, like, a feedback loop where people respond to certain parts of you when you put parts of you out there on the Internet because there are we're multifaceted. We're complex creatures. And, like, I express myself in different ways, and then people react and you kinda start to, like, think about, like, oh, is that is that the person I am on the Internet? Is that who I come off as?

Adam:

Oh, do I wanna be that person? And then it, like, influences my thoughts. You probably don't do this. You just you just straight from brain to Twitter, and you don't think about it. I overanalyze everything.

Adam:

So Oh, people want you to do that. Conversation. What's that?

Dax:

People want people want you to do that. They want you to overanalyze it and, like

Adam:

That's true.

Dax:

You know, police yourself. But it's just not serious. It's it's just it's just a bunch of words, and, like, it's not related to my job. It's not like you're not impacting their job. It's like there's there's not nothing real.

Dax:

So it's it's especially weird when people are treated more seriously than their real life relationships. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Dax:

Yeah. Okay.

Adam:

That's enough about that. That's all I wanna say. Yeah. I don't even know if I said anything. That's all I wanna say about it.

Adam:

I'm, I'm like kind of walking on eggshells because there's people I really respect.

Dax:

We all know what you wait, what? Really? There's people you respect?

Adam:

Well, hang on. You didn't even let me finish this sentence.

Dax:

I don't have anyone I respect.

Adam:

You don't respect anybody. Okay. That's fair. I believe that. There's people I really respect that I think have a stance that's more like there's no room for negativity on the Internet.

Adam:

I don't know. That's not that's an exaggerated form of what they would say. But, man, I'm really trying to, like, walk on eggshells here, and there's, like it's stupid. I I shouldn't. Who listens to this?

Adam:

Is anyone even listening right now?

Dax:

Anyway. Yeah. Well, I linked that tweet that I posted a while ago where when I was in that manager role for a little bit, there are situations that you'll run into where there's a conflict and one person when you look at the conflict on the surface. One person's like totally behaving outside the realm of what's like quote unquote professional. Like they're being negative or they're like, maybe both are kind of outside the range, but, like, one is clearly, like, way outside the range.

Dax:

Yeah. So people's instinct is like, okay, let's try to, like, find both of them, find middle ground for both of them. Classic thing. Any, like, you interview your manager. I would get them in a room.

Dax:

I would get them in a room together, and I would make them work out their differences. And this is what every manager does. And this, to me, is equivalent of this, like, feel goodery. It's like, oh, yeah. Everyone has a perspective.

Dax:

And one person is right, and the other person is also right. And there's, like, some common ground that they can find themselves. And every manager sees this as a role. But, again, this is super cowardly because what's a manager actually doing? They're protecting their own relationship with both of them.

Dax:

They're like, I don't want either of them to be too upset

Adam:

with me. So let me just make

Dax:

sure they they both equally win and lose. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a good manager digs deeper, and you and oftentimes, they find that the person that's acting extra unreasonably is because they've been pushed really far by the other person who's very good at acting professional but, like, being extremely annoying.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. Like, imagine that you have a real problem. Like, someone didn't do their job. Like, you're you're working on something together. 1 person didn't do their job.

Dax:

But, like, they're, like, just responding to you in this, like, really professional way and, like, still not doing their job, but, like, being really, like, professional and, like, just kinda shifting stuff around. That'll drive you insane if you're someone that actually trying to do stuff get stuff done. Right? You're gonna start, like, acting like a crazy person. So I would see these situations all the time, and I'm like, my actual job is to figure out someone is right here.

Dax:

In this situation, oftentimes, it's conflicts. 1 person is in the right and that person is in the wrong. Take a side with them and then just, like, destroy the other person, because that's, like, what will actually make your team more productive. And you as a manager, you're actually risking something there. Like, you might be wrong, but, like, assume you're not.

Dax:

1 person's gonna be really mad at you. Other people watching you, the other manager this is also a huge thing with middle managers. Like, all middle managers are watching each other. They're gonna look at that and be like they're not gonna they're gonna think you're bad cause you didn't, like, find compromise. But what does a good leader do?

Dax:

That's what a good leader does. So I feel like a lot of this stuff stems from this type of situation where people are actually just looking out for them themselves as opposed to really thinking about what's Mhmm. What's actually going on here and what's, like, the right outcome.

Adam:

Yeah. I can't I can't articulate it like you, and I can't put my finger on it. But I have this, like, in like, internal feeling when people are doing this thing, which is what you're describing. This, like, it looks so good, and it looks like from the outside, like, of course, this is the reasonable thing you should be doing on Twitter and replies. It just feels wrong, and it just feels so, yeah, self serving or something.

Adam:

Yeah. And I just wanna, like, scream. It's not like I think I'm right.

Dax:

That that and and and that person is driving you crazy. Right? Now you're acting like a crazy person. That's what's so insidious about this stuff because it looks positive, but it's, like, the most annoying thing in the world.

Adam:

Yes. And I think, like, I just wanna say publicly that I don't think I'm right all the time. Like, it doesn't it's not like I think I'm always right, but, like, I don't care. I'm gonna say I'm gonna say what I think and what I feel on Twitter because what's the point otherwise? And that's fine.

Adam:

You can, like, you can not like me because of it. I'm not I don't know. I I don't wanna just, like, constantly be, like, the counter to somebody's, like, the thorn in their side, if that makes sense. I I do feel like that's just, like, a waste of my energy and time, but, like, when people are being extra annoying in my eyes, I'm probably just gonna, like, talk a lot about it. And I'm sorry.

Adam:

I'm not sorry. I

Dax:

don't know. But yeah. I mean, people I think people are just very lost. That that's a feeling I get when people talk to that. I'm just, like, they're just completely lost.

Dax:

Like, it's a thing I say all the time where I feel the purpose of life is just to, like, make sense of all of it. And whenever I see people like that, I'm like, they're so confused. I just have no idea what's going on. And, like, they're just completely lost, and it sucks to live a life where you never really get it.

Adam:

You know? I don't know if I get it. Do I get it? I don't know if I get it. It never

Dax:

gets it to various degrees. Yeah. Okay. The the way you're speaking is still better than the thing you're speaking about. So

Adam:

Okay. Still feel pretty lost. But okay. That's another topic for

Dax:

another day. We just talked earlier about how we can go forwards in time. Like, that's that's confusing.

Adam:

That's crazy. Let's go forwards in time. Let's do it. That sounds awesome.

Dax:

I would love to do that. If if I get this, like, sleep for 10 years, and it's not easy Oh,

Adam:

like, freeze you or whatever and then, like, come back, Why 10? Let's go further.

Dax:

I mean, you kinda wanna check-in every x amount of years just

Adam:

so you don't, like, overshoot and, like so then you wake up in a

Dax:

row of got. Yeah. No humans and dual robots. Like, you don't want that because you can't go back. There's a whole Futurama episode about this.

Dax:

I found it so funny. They invented a time machine, but can only go forward. And they're they're testing it and they're trying to go forward, like, 2 minutes, but they hit the lever too hard and they go forward, like, a 1000 years and, like, shit. Okay. Let's keep jumping forward until, someone invents a backwards time machine.

Dax:

And they and they they, like, jump they, like, they, like, they, like, witnessing all this crazy stuff. And they finally finally, like, some other civilization emerges, and they seem, like, sophisticated and intelligent. They're, like, okay.

Adam:

Okay. It's gonna take us

Dax:

a 100 years. Come back in a 100 years. They jump for a 100 years, but then, like, they get wiped out too by, like, some stupid thing. And there was, like, alright. We're screwed.

Dax:

They just they just, like, push the lever all the way, and then it just goes to the end of, like, entropy. Like, everything just completely dissolves. And then it reboots and starts over from the beginning. And they're like, oh, cool. Now we can get back to where we were.

Adam:

I gotta watch it, Joe. I mean, I don't have any time to invest. But

Dax:

Yeah. It's, not like that. That's a funny concept because I think it's true. I think you could invent a way to go forward, but you're stuck if you overshoot something,

Adam:

you know? Yeah. Yeah. This was this you also said something that reminded me of a tweet I just saw, which is, like, some person I don't know anything about them or whether they're credible, but they've made some tweet about, like, 70% sure AI is gonna kill us all. And they were serious.

Adam:

Like, it was, like, a sincere post.

Dax:

Adam, the person that posted that is that, birthday orgy, birthday gangbang girl.

Adam:

I'm sorry. What? Am I supposed to have context for what birthday or girl?

Dax:

Thing in, like, a couple like, a bunch of episodes ago.

Adam:

Oh, really? About a birthday orgy girl?

Dax:

This is that woman that, like, is really into, like, quote, unquote sex research and has, like and does all of the all this, like, really crazy stuff related to sex and, like, documents it in this, like, hyper, like, quantitative way.

Adam:

I'm just really, like, kinda concerned at this moment that I don't remember this. I feel like it's such a distinct and, like, notable thing to forget, but I literally don't remember this. Let's move on

Dax:

from that point. But for the record, I I think and we talked about this a little bit while you were in Miami, actually. The whole scientism thing.

Adam:

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

I I do not like her, and I think she's, like, a fake intellectual. Like, I think that's exactly Okay.

Adam:

So you knew who this person was. And

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. So when I when I saw her post, I was, like, that's what I expect.

Adam:

And, like, to be clear, I wasn't, like, influenced by this tweet. Like, oh god. We're all gonna die. I just saw that tweet, and then you just said something about, moving too far in the future. It's all robots.

Adam:

And I was like, oh, okay. That's what that person's saying.

Dax:

No. They were saying that, they strongly believe that's the point where they're, like, shifting how they live their life so that they are investing. They're saving risks. They're trying to, like, take more risks, worried about long term health less. Yeah.

Dax:

Which is fine, but I just it it that, like, that's, like, really crazy to me. I don't know.

Adam:

Yeah. That's nuts.

Dax:

To to be that certain of it.

Adam:

I also just don't see the, like, rational concern over AI right now. Like, I I just don't see it. I don't see what they would see that they'd be like, look at these LLMs. We're doomed. I don't know.

Adam:

I'm not, like, trying to do the other side of the joke where it's like, these things are so stupid. I just don't think, like, this is gonna lead to, like, robots taking over. I don't know.

Dax:

Yeah. It's actually really crazy because having it's so hard, man. Like, just understanding all this stuff is just so hard because we all went to the crypto thing and like, we saw people talk like this where they

Adam:

were like,

Dax:

we're so sure of some, like, crazy shift that was gonna happen. Yeah. And for very specific reasons, they were, like, mis guided about that or, like, it didn't. Yeah. I think a lot of people take that and just kinda blanket apply it to anything new.

Dax:

They're, like, if there's anything new and people are excited about it, it's probably wrong, which is not right. But also Yeah. Probably they are wrong. So you have to figure out, like, exactly why they are. So it's just, like, it's it's a lot.

Dax:

That's kind of what I was saying. When I go to build a CRUD app, I'm like, this is easy. Like, you know, so much easier than a lot of stuff I'm trying to think about.

Adam:

That's why I feel like I have a hard time commenting on any of it because I feel like these people are surely, like, really in the weeds and and doing research. Right? Like, I'm just busy making cred apps over here, and it's like I haven't had time to think about any of this very hard. But it just seems ridiculous that people take strong stances on either side of the argument, like the we should accelerate or decelerate or whatever. I could just I assume these people are doing, like, real research, and they have real thoughts with capital letters.

Adam:

But then I'm like, I don't know. People are kinda stupid, And, like, maybe not. Maybe it's just as simple as it seems.

Dax:

When it comes to predicting the future, experts, do not do better than the average person.

Adam:

Okay. So I'm an average person, and I just predict

Dax:

They're just more they're just more confident in their predictions.

Adam:

Yeah. Do you start to feel like you're taking crazy pills when, like, every big company has jumped so hard into the AI thing. Like, that didn't happen with crypto. They've, like, they've gone all like, all their events are just basically, like, AI. I mean, there's the Google thing meme of, like, all the times people said AI.

Adam:

But, like, AWS became an AI company. Like, all these things are happening where it's, like, the biggest companies in the world have, like, gone so hard, and it just almost seems like a meme. Like, it's hilarious to me that they've gone so hard down this path. I don't know. Maybe maybe I'm just I'm too busy in the muck of inconsequential things to see the big picture or something.

Adam:

I don't know.

Dax:

I think there's there's again, there's both sides. Like, yes, there is really something there to align yourself with and it makes sense why they're doing that. But at the same time, like, I just some of this earlier today, like, you think about, like, serious stuff in the world, like, political conflicts, like, wars. There's people that's day to day job is, like, think about that and manage it. Yeah.

Dax:

And at some point, you get to an age where you're like because your whole life, you're like, those are grown ups and, like, I'm, like, not a grown up, and those are grown ups doing, like, the grown up things. But then eventually, you realize, like,

Adam:

this is exactly the feeling.

Dax:

They're they're actually the same as you. And probably a lot of them are stupider or, like, less capable or less less competent. And it's just random. The fact that they're working on that and you're working on this is just an entirely random thing. And it's really weird to, like, rewire your mind because, like, it really just feels like they're in charge, and I'm like a kid.

Dax:

Yeah. And it's, like, hard to realize, like, they're actually just like you, and they wake up and have the same thoughts. And it's actually the exact same person. It's like a different species or like a completely different experience. So I think Yeah.

Dax:

In corporate situations, it's actually even worse. Because I think the people that run these bigger companies are actually extremely likely to be less competent than you, extremely likely to, like, have less, sense of what's actually going on. And we're in an environment where, like, even me or you entering that environment would be much worse. So it's like Mhmm. Just these companies are so big and successful.

Dax:

You, like, start to feel like the individuals there reflect that, but they don't really like, they're just like you and me, and they're in a worse situation. So, yeah, these companies do stupid stuff like that all the time, and and and it doesn't make sense. Did you watch the, the Google IO? Not I don't know if you watched it, but you saw, like, the Google IO stuff. Right?

Adam:

I've just I've literally the 2 things I've seen, and I haven't listened to the audio of the guy. I guess he's a is he a DJ? Who is he? I don't know. The guy running around.

Dax:

I I I thought just following him. 10 years. Like, it's my usual 10 years. But for real, it's a different You have

Adam:

been following for 10 years? Oh, is he, like, a legitimate person?

Dax:

Yeah. He's, he's he's in New York, and he's, like okay. I I wish to pronounce his last name. It's like Marc Rebaier or something like that.

Adam:

Okay.

Dax:

So I saw him pop up. I don't know. Like, I don't remember when, but, like, early on. He wasn't that big because he would make these videos where he would just be in his, like, shitty Brooklyn apartment and he'd, like, start from nothing and, like, burp into a microphone and, like, turn that into, like, a whole whole song and just be going nuts and going crazy. And, like, and he, like, what he, like, got so popular, went super viral.

Dax:

But there is a video of him from when he was a kid where this news crew you know, back when, like, iPhones were such a big deal and there'd be, like, lines around the store when iPhone came out? Yeah. Yeah. There's a video of a news crew filming him and he's, like, 1st in line at the iPhone store. And someone that's trying to buy, like, 10 iPhones pays him a bunch of money to take his spot.

Dax:

Okay?

Adam:

Okay. And

Dax:

and she takes his spot, and he goes to the back line and just waits. And then the store is, like, limit 1 per person.

Adam:

So he sold

Dax:

his spot and got a free iPhone. This, like, went, like, viral for back in the day, you know, when when, like, the local cruise covers it and, like, all the new channels are playing it. Yeah. And then he, like, you know, then became this random, like, music producer, DJ person. And now he's, like, doing the Google IO event.

Dax:

It's a Okay. What a trajectory of his life.

Adam:

So I've seen him taking off a robe and, like, having

Dax:

another robe. Funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

He's really funny.

Adam:

That's what I've seen. And then I've seen with audio, I've seen, all the times they said AI. And I thought that was funny. That's all I've seen in Google IO. I just don't care.

Dax:

So something like I I had it playing on the background, and I'm about to talk about this very dramatically. Prepare yourself.

Adam:

Mhmm. It's my favorite.

Dax:

It, like I felt like something, like, break in my, like, soul, like, listening to this because it is it is just this big event that you know that they spent 1,000,000 on. You know they've been planning it for months, And it is just corporate dork after corporate dork just talking about the least inspiring thing ever. And the moment where my soul I could feel my soul break was there was this person giving their thing, and it was, like, really boring, not engaging, not exciting. And she ends it with, oh, and one more thing. We're increasing context window to 2,000,000.

Dax:

And I realized that's the Steve Jobs thing. She's just doing the oh, yeah. And one more thing. And think about, like, when he first did it, like, so innovative, the level of showmanship, the delivery, the drama. Like, so well done.

Dax:

Like, it's just pinnacle of whatever that is.

Adam:

Mhmm.

Dax:

And she just followed some template, and she just threw his thing in there at the end. I'm just like this this, like, really hurt me for some reason. I'm just like, I cannot believe that they're just following this template, like, not even thinking about what they're doing. Like

Adam:

Yeah.

Dax:

They're copying this thing that I I can't even articulate. It just, like it's just so exciting.

Adam:

There's just a few bright spots in humanity. Yeah. And you realize how few, like, people get it and are actually capable of, like, wowing you or, like, inspiring you. And then there's a whole bunch of people just following those leads. And Yep.

Dax:

Those copy

Adam:

and then Google.

Dax:

Copying it is one thing, but copying it to a degree where it's clear you don't even you don't even understand why it's worth copying it in the first place, that's just, like Yeah. That's just brutal.

Adam:

Yeah. That that whole thing, like, the fact that Google even has a conference, the whole thing just feels like a giant joke to me because at the end of the day, it's like, the only thing that matters at Google is they're gonna keep selling ads on search result pages until that goes away, until the heat death of the universe or advertising is no longer viable. Everything else they talk about, who cares? It doesn't matter. It literally doesn't matter.

Adam:

So they can get up there and talk about whatever they want. It doesn't matter. Like, they're gonna sell ads, and they're gonna kill everything else they ever do. It's just they're just a giant joke.

Dax:

And what what's so funny to me is they're, like, you know, the Internet company, like, the prototypical Internet company, but they don't operate like they're in a Internet company at all. Like the thing where OpenAI put together an event that happened the day before, you know, they timed that on purpose. The event probably took them maybe a week to put together. And they posted it like Sam Altman was just recording it on this phone Yeah. In front of it.

Dax:

And they totally upstaged this much bigger thing. I forget the fact that that, like, maybe the the product was actually better. Even if you take that out of the picture, we all saw a bunch of stuff. And then the next day, we saw Google show the same stuff in a worse way. So Yeah.

Dax:

Way more nimble, way less, like, just they, like they're thinking, like, you know, it's the Internet. Like, you don't need to like, you have so much leverage if you do things in a certain way. Like, you can just completely crush someone with way more money to spend

Adam:

on this stuff. And you need I was like, go

Dax:

ahead and fire every single person. Like, they don't understand that they should not be in that role.

Adam:

But we gotta talk about the OpenAI OpenAI, event as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna ask you about that.

Adam:

So the only thing I wanna talk about and you can we do we can talk about actual stuff. But the only thing I wanna talk about is this feeling I had when I saw this tweet from I I don't know who it is. Maybe you know this woman from some orgies or something. But this woman tweeted that it was like a quote tweet of one of the demos that this nerd OpenAI guy with this goofy grin is, like, doing the demo. And she's just quote tweeting to say, like, why is the voice so, like, turned on sounding or whatever, like, hypersexualized or whatever.

Adam:

Like, why is this woman it sounds like I think the tweet was like, it sounds like a woman invented by men Yeah. Which is I don't know. There's probably some truth in it. But then I realized, like, looking at that tweet through the replies, I hate both sides of men's responses to it. Like, literally hate both of them.

Adam:

I hate the people, the guys who are like, grow up women, like, just trying to make everything about you. I hate those guys. They sound like assholes. And then I hate the guys that are like, I know. Isn't it terrible?

Adam:

Like, I get it. I'm with you. I hate both of them. I just hate them. I got this I think the only good response from a man when you see that tweet is literally don't respond.

Adam:

Just don't respond. That's it. That's the only good response. Just don't. Sorry.

Adam:

That's the only thought I had about open AI.

Dax:

It's the whole thing. Yeah. It's, it's this thing me and Liz were talking about this. I think Paul Graham talked about this, that if you are truly an independent thinker, sometimes you will find yourself on the side of people you hate, right? Like, you'll be

Adam:

like, oh, man.

Dax:

Like, I'm on I I believe in this, but, like,

Adam:

this other guy also believes in me.

Dax:

You should you should find yourself

Adam:

in situations like that. And you should

Dax:

find yourself in situations where you just hate both sides. If you're never in those situations, like you're not actually really thinking. But yeah, that I did see them, and that that was funny. What did you think about the you saw a video of the actual Yeah.

Adam:

Demo, like, the way it was talking. Did you have any thoughts about that? I I don't know. I guess I thought it could already do all that stuff. I don't is there something that I I haven't seen probably as much as you.

Adam:

I have played with like, it's available. Right? The OpenAI or the chat, GPT app. Like Okay.

Dax:

So there was a

Adam:

multimodal stuff. There's, like, a new model. It It could already take it could already describe images to you.

Dax:

Yeah. But but I think it was, like, you can kinda you can, like, do video now

Adam:

also. Video. That's a that's a distinction.

Dax:

It's more fluid and seamless, basically.

Adam:

And the

Dax:

other thing was, like, all the audio generation improvements they did where, like, it can do all tones and emotions. You can tell it do a sing song voice. You can, like It

Adam:

was singing. Yeah.

Dax:

I heard that. They say do

Adam:

a story in, like, robotic voice.

Dax:

You can do anything, and it basically does it, which was extremely cool. And I thought it was, like, a really cool demo. And I'm like, if you're a kid, like, this is probably so fun. If you're, you know, as an adult, if you're just gonna play with it, like, it's Yeah. It's really interesting.

Dax:

I had this weird feeling where what I liked about chat g p t is that it was not like a human where humans have feelings and emotions and, like, there's a whole layer of communicating with the human properly that you need to do to, like, work around these things.

Adam:

Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. And I feel like they they with this voice thing for, like, serious work, they're making it more like a human, but in ways that I find less efficient. Like, I don't need it to be like, oh, you know, like, say things like that. Like, say or, like, laugh in between things or, like Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

It's more natural for sure. And then for in certain context, that's great. But But

Adam:

it's kind of a thing we didn't need to bring over.

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. If I'm, like, trying to tap into a superintelligence, like Yeah. I don't want that stuff, you know?

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I I get that.

Adam:

Yeah. I I get why people want it, and I get why, like, we don't need it as well.

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. But people are going crazy with the, because it reminded everyone of of her.

Adam:

Yeah. I've never seen her.

Dax:

I mean, it's a really good It's a

Adam:

really good movie.

Dax:

It's extremely good.

Adam:

Okay. Yeah. I'll put it on the list.

Dax:

I think

Adam:

Maybe that's the next one I'll watch. I gotta watch Dune 2. But then I'll watch her.

Dax:

Yeah. Dune 2 is out now.

Adam:

I know. So I've it's been out, quote unquote, it's been out, for weeks now, but in varying degrees of quality.

Dax:

So there

Adam:

was, like, an early version of it that was, like, 3.1 audio or whatever. And then when it came out on streaming, we got the 5.1. Now we're up to the 7.1. There

Dax:

we go.

Adam:

There we go.

Dax:

Now you need that for that movie. The odd the audio in that movie is better than anything I've ever heard.

Adam:

I know. And the first one was so good. It was like how I tested my system.

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

And I just can't wait for I wasn't gonna watch it until it was the best possible audio experience.

Dax:

No. Definitely.

Adam:

Now I can't watch it because my 4 year old has decided he wants to sleep on the couch in our living room, and it's too like, the audio would get to him. Like, I would wake him up in the morning. I watch movies before they wake up. Like, that's my time to, like if I'm gonna do it on a Saturday morning, I go in there at, like, 4:30, and I watch a movie before everybody's out of bed. Like, that's how I can watch a movie.

Adam:

I can't do it because he's not in his room with the sound machine. He's in the living room, and

Dax:

Oh my god.

Adam:

It's a whole thing we're working on.

Dax:

Just lock him in your room, in his

Adam:

room. Yeah. It's not that easy. It's not. It's just not.

Adam:

Unfortunately. It's just like oh, yeah. Yeah. Forget. You're good at parenting advice.

Dax:

Hey. Because you have dogs. It's, it's Zuko's birthday today.

Adam:

Is it really? Yeah. Happy birthday, Zuko. That's amazing. He's

Dax:

turning 2. He had a we had his friend come over yesterday, and they played for 4 hours.

Adam:

I saw a picture. Four hours of sniffing his butts? That's that's what that was.

Dax:

They were running around wrestling. There was even some bleeding going on. The other dog bit its own tongue. Bleeding?

Adam:

Yeah. And it, like, like Oh, he bit his own tongue?

Dax:

Yeah. And it was, like, it, like, bled all over, like, my deck area.

Adam:

Oh, no.

Dax:

But then she was, like, fine, like, 2 minutes after. Just, like, the he the wound just, like, sealed itself. The the dogs heal so fast. It's insane.

Adam:

So there there's dog healing, but then also just, like, inside of your mouth, what's the deal with that? Like, how does it just heal so fast? Because you bite your lip or whatever and it's bleeding, and then, like, 3 minutes later, it's not. But it's all wet in there? Like, how does it even stop?

Adam:

I don't know.

Dax:

There's nothing. I don't know. So that was his birthday. He had to play for for 4 hours, and he was dead. And then we were gonna go to the pet store, and

Adam:

we let him, like, just walk around by himself. Any toy he wants.

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. Last year, he picked a giant sheep, like a giant stuffed sheep. So we'll see what happens

Adam:

this week. Sheep. I thought you said a giant sheep, and I was waiting for the last word.

Dax:

No. No. No. A giant sheep. It wasn't cheap.

Adam:

Okay. Yeah. He picked a giant sheep. I can't believe I didn't see the giant sheep when I was in Miami.

Dax:

No. He destroyed it very quickly.

Adam:

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny.

Adam:

I thought you're gonna say so when you said cheap, it just reminded me, like, when you when you take kids to, like, pick something out, the like, we like, I take them

Dax:

to the place where there's a bunch of

Adam:

Lego sets and stuff. And it's like, you could choose anything, and you're gonna choose the, like, $25, like, 300 piece Lego set. Like, look at this giant castle. Come on now. Like, no.

Adam:

They're stuck on this stupid little set, and they want it. Like, okay. I guess. So, yeah.

Dax:

You know, having a dog and having a kid, exactly the same.

Adam:

Exactly the same. Yeah. We basically live the same life.

Dax:

Tell your kid to sit, and then tell him to come. And then lure him into his room, and then close the door behind it. And then just watch your movie. He'll just go to sleep, and then, you come back

Adam:

and get him. I'd

Dax:

be happy to see you and give him a little treat.

Adam:

It's so funny because I know there's, like, parents that are triggered right now about me just saying that little bit I said. But, why wouldn't you just make them sleep in their room? Like, there's a lot of context here. Just you don't understand. Just trust me.

Adam:

Just like Dax doesn't understand. You don't understand. Just No.

Dax:

I do understand.

Adam:

You do. I love it. That's another thing where I think I hate both sides. I hate the people who are, like, on your side and the other side. I I just hate both of it.

Adam:

I don't know. I'm an independent thinker. You know? Oh, I see.

Dax:

Wait. Hang on. Before before we get off, at some point in a previous episode, you told me you're gonna rebuild your house somewhere else. And we, like, never really talked about it. And I'm like Oh.

Dax:

Why do you have to go that far? Like, I don't I don't understand. Like, why do you have to rebuild your exact house?

Adam:

Well okay. So I mean, I've told you, like, we moved to Florida. Like, we did that.

Dax:

I understand the whole journey, and I understand how you're really happy with your house now.

Adam:

Okay. But what do you what do you not understand?

Dax:

You don't think it's weird that you That's

Adam:

the whole thing.

Dax:

If you're gonna build a second house, if you're gonna go through that work and that cost and everything, that you're just gonna build an identical house, like

Adam:

So you're saying, like, why wouldn't you build a different house?

Dax:

Why wouldn't you build a different house? Isn't there, like, a half step you can do where you just, like, rent a place for some part of the year and then go back? Like, I'm trying to understand what

Adam:

it is. Yeah. You took it a little too literally because I I don't know that we're actually gonna do the building for what it's worth, winter in South Florida this coming winter. Like, we're not gonna spend this coming winter in Missouri. We're gonna Airbnb something for, like, 2, 3 months knowing we can come back to our house.

Adam:

It's not as traumatic because we can come back home. So we are gonna do that this winter. And then long term, it's just like we we love this situation. We don't wanna move our kids, but it almost opens up an avenue where we could move our kids because it's the same house, and it would feel like like not that much changed. Like, they don't have that many ties to this location other than this house.

Adam:

So if we just built the same house, we can kinda, like, circumvent it's like a a life hack or something.

Dax:

I'm trying to understand this though because I understand a house that you don't like. And it's uncomfortable for your family and everyone's kinda like

Adam:

Mhmm.

Dax:

You know, on edge because of that. But the part that's confusing me is why did it have to be, like, a trick where they're they think they're in the same exact house? Why can't this also be a comfortable house that, you know, isn't like a clone?

Adam:

It's just it's the familiarity. Like, I would feel it if it were a nice house, but it's a different house. Then everything is uprooted. It's like everything is different, and you feel that day to day. If it were the same house But

Dax:

then what about the furniture in the house? Like, is that gonna also match?

Adam:

I mean, it would have to. Yeah.

Dax:

This is, like, really I I I believe you have an explanation for it, but, like, you're not giving me enough that Okay. This starts to make any amount of sense.

Adam:

I mean, you but you get the mechanism. Right? Like, the mechanism here is if we had this exact environment in another place, our family probably wouldn't even notice because we don't leave the hostage.

Dax:

Why why is the goal to, like, not notice that you've that anything is changed? It's it's like I I imagine kids walking around, and they, like, look, and they're like they realize that, like, one piece of furniture is a slightly different angle, and then they're like, oh my god. I'm, like, somewhere else. And, like, the whole, like, like, something shatters, and they just, like, explode.

Adam:

Think about the other end the other extreme, like military kids. Kids that move around constantly.

Dax:

Yeah. No. I get that.

Adam:

That, like, shapes them. It, like, it affects their well-being. Right? Or maybe not. Maybe in positive ways too, but, like, it defines

Dax:

It's a type of person in life that you have. Yeah.

Adam:

And we are on the far end of that other side of the spectrum where, oh, my my 4 year old especially is very sensitive to change.

Dax:

I see.

Adam:

Oh, there's an example. I I'm blanking. Just in the last week, there's an example of something that changed ever so slightly, and it was days of pain. Like, I'm not kidding you when I say, like

Dax:

I see. Okay.

Adam:

There so there's a name for I hate to even throw this out there because I feel like the the boomers that listen to us, of which I'm sure there are many, are gonna be like, whatever. Like, you're making up terms. It's called pathological demand avoidance, and it's a psychological condition in children, they think, and it's still very new science, but, like, our kid has a very extreme neurological thing. Like, it's about, like, regulating your nervous system. Basically, he's in fight or flight all the time, like, constantly feels like he's out of control, and he can't he can't cope.

Adam:

So other people might say that doesn't exist. Whatever. It exists. Believe me. I've raised 2 children, and the first one was not like this.

Adam:

Okay. Our 9 year

Dax:

old So

Adam:

was 4 once.

Dax:

This is funny because this is actually exactly like having a dog.

Adam:

Oh, maybe.

Dax:

Yeah. Because Like,

Adam:

any very sensitive to their environment.

Dax:

Yeah. Because dogs have no ability to predict if like, they don't know what's gonna happen. Now you can't tell them later, we're gonna do this. So the only reason they have stability is knowing exactly how every single day is gonna work. Like, they know in the morning this happens.

Dax:

They know in the evening this happens. They know in the sun this happens. And if you take Mhmm.

Adam:

If you

Dax:

have, like, variability to that, like, their behavior changes because they just can't

Adam:

deal with

Dax:

what's gonna happen. So Mhmm. As a dog owner, I I totally get it.

Adam:

You totally understand. I'm so glad we were able to connect. Okay.

Dax:

I got it. Because so without that context Yeah. Do you understand what you were describing sounds, like, really like, I think you take

Adam:

for granted that, like, shift is, you know, gonna be a big deal. I didn't see it. I now see the bizarreness. Yeah. It's so I'm so in the thick of it and for years now, like, or for a year, maybe 2 years, that it's just so normal to me to think that way.

Adam:

I didn't even see it from the outside. Now I get that I sound like a crazy person. Well, again,

Dax:

to me, it did it seems like some, like, sci fi situate or, like, some kinda, like, sci fi slash horror situation where, like Like

Adam:

a Black Mirror episode. Yeah.

Dax:

They're they're in some kind of simulation and, like, then they realize it's changed and it's, like, you know

Adam:

Yeah. I see it now. I see it. Yeah. It's not normal.

Adam:

Our life is not normal

Dax:

is what I would say. Do you think they'll do you think he'll be okay just going? Like, you guys are playing this winter. Is that gonna be like Oh,

Adam:

we have no idea. We literally can't take him to Kansas. I mean, we can't, like there's days where we really need to go somewhere and we just we can't because we can't leave the house because he won't come and we don't have a babysitter. Like, we have no idea. I have no idea.

Adam:

I I tell my I tell myself, I hope 6 months from now, like, every year, I think, will get easier because I think he learns he'll learn to cope. And Yeah. Just social pressures and things will help. But this has been a tough age. So, yeah, I have no idea if it'll work.

Adam:

We just we hope we can get him on a plane again. He used to fly, like, when we were little. When he was little, we took him places. Anyway, it's just got intimate. I guess that's what this podcast is.

Adam:

Just we talk about real life stuff. We've been talking a long time. This is an hour and 26. Woah. It's a long episode.

Adam:

I know. Who makes it There's a little bit in the middle that gets cut out when I peed. What's that? These people made it to the end? You know what?

Dax:

Whoever whoever listening right now are people that made it to the end. And they're they're actually special ones.

Adam:

Yeah. That's pretty crazy, actually, to think. Can you imagine listening to us for an hour and 26 minutes? I mean, I guess, like, they could speed it up. They could do 2 times.

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

That's another thing. So I listen to podcasts. Well, I lately, not as much, but I always listen to some multiple. Right? And if you ever listen to them at one time speed, their voice is so different, and they sound drunk and stupid.

Adam:

And do you ever think about that? Like, people who listen to us on 1.5 speed or whatever, if they heard us in person, they'd be like, you guys talk so slow.

Dax:

I don't wanna think about that.

Adam:

Yeah. I think part

Dax:

of my identity is sounding like I know what I'm talking about. So if you're coming across stupid, like, it's not good. This is actually why I haven't learned Spanish is because I haven't gotten over the fear of sounding stupid.

Adam:

Mhmm. Yeah. There's a lot of reasons I haven't learned Spanish. I guess that's

Dax:

You have no reason to. Hey, wow. I live in a place where people mostly speak Spanish.

Adam:

Oh, yeah. Okay. You've got some yeah. Does Liz speak Spanish?

Dax:

Yeah. She speaks Spanish perfectly. Her whole family only speaks Spanish. So I have a lot of reason

Adam:

to learn it.

Dax:

That's crazy.

Adam:

Yeah. You should learn Spanish, you jerk.

Dax:

Come on. Yeah. But I wanna sound stupid with her family. So

Adam:

It's fine.

Dax:

I know it's fine.

Adam:

You all sound stupid. It'll be it'll be endearing.

Dax:

Intellectually, it's fine. I know. I know all this intellectually.

Adam:

But Okay.

Dax:

There's something in my core that I'm

Adam:

mostly right. Out. Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

Okay. There's something I wanna do here. We're at the end of the episode. Maybe I should do this we should do this every episode maybe. Just thank some people.

Adam:

Because, like, this podcast is bigger than us by just a little bit. Thank you, Chris, for editing. We we joke about it, but he's really good. Yeah. Like, we don't have to think about anything.

Adam:

He publishes the thing. He does it all. He does the he gets it out there.

Dax:

He has a fine descriptions. Man, I laugh so Adam worries about the point

Adam:

of even living. That's such a such a good story. Yeah. I know. So thank you, Chris, for the editing and for everything else you do.

Adam:

And thank you, Haley. Haley's been doing all the little, like, social posts, little clips. Thank you, Haley. I've not acknowledged you publicly. Thank you for I don't even know if she listens.

Adam:

I don't know. I I think she's listened to some of it. She may not get this far to know. This is for nothing. No.

Adam:

It's not. It's publicly thank you. Okay. I should really not do thank yous if this are if they're gonna be this long every time. Like, it should just be a little thing at the end where I'm like, thank you Chris for editing.

Adam:

Thank you, Haley, for the social clips. Okay. See you. But instead, I turned it in, like, a minute and a half. Are you frozen or are you staring at me like that?

Adam:

No. I haven't done that I haven't done

Dax:

that for a while. Right? I haven't done that thing where I just let you talk and I just stare at you.

Adam:

It just make me uncomfortable. Okay. We did it. We made it through an episode when I had something like 250 milligrams of caffeine in my system.

Dax:

Okay.

Adam:

No food. Well Good times.

Dax:

Go put that to work. Whatever's up there. I'm

Adam:

going to. Yeah. You know what? Actually, the last thing. I I drank all that coffee this morning thinking, like, it's fine.

Adam:

I'm just gonna get so much done, and I forgot we had a podcast. This is totally interrupting all my, like, caffeine usage. Anyway, hour and 30. Alright. See you, Dex.

Dax:

See you.

Creators and Guests

Adam Elmore
Host
Adam Elmore
AWS DevTools Hero and co-founder @statmuse. Husband. Father. Brother. Sister?? Pet?!?
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Dax Raad
Host
Dax Raad
building @SST_dev and @withbumi
X Website Link
Chris Enns
Editor
Chris Enns
I edit podcasts so you don't have to.
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