Parenting is Exactly Like Owning a Dog—And What's the Point of Being Alive?
Let me, the person without any children, give you advice Yes. Yes. On on your kids,
Adam:please. That's what parents love is when people without kids
Dax:get It's just like like having a dog. It's not it's it's just this exact same thing. What what minute are we on? Oh, did you reset the recording?
Adam:I had to start the recording. There's 3 recordings for this episode so far. It's a great start.
Dax:I had so many things I was gonna say. Like, so much time went by where I was waiting for you to figure that out that I had, like, multiple thoughts that I was gonna say to you that overwrote the previous one.
Adam:You didn't queue them up? There's no durability in your thoughts? No. It's gone?
Dax:No. I I did get a nice picture of you that I posted on Twitter, which was great.
Adam:Are you kidding me? You've posted a picture of me on Twitter already? What in the world? I remember being shamed on Twitter. Okay.
Adam:Well, now I'm just trying to find the picture. Did you see the you saw the Prime. You responded. Isn't that exactly how Prime looks in person, like, all the time at, like, an event?
Dax:Yeah. Like, what? It okay. So the picture was Prime holding a cup, and Yeah. That seems so simple.
Dax:Like, everyone holds a cup.
Adam:But there's something iconic about it.
Dax:Yeah. So the way he, like I don't know what it is. The way he holds it, it's like that's exactly unique to him.
Adam:It's so familiar. Like, I've seen him in that position so many times, and I've not been with him that much.
Dax:Yeah. And I and I can even, like, tell how he's, like, moving. Like, he's, like, like, leaning back and forth. Yeah.
Adam:Yeah. It's funny. And I I see the picture of me as me bent over again. Awesome. Thanks, Zach.
Dax:Yeah. It's
Adam:gonna be Thanks so much.
Dax:I'm hoping to continue this for, like, years years years. Okay.
Adam:Yeah. I should've known better. I should've turned off the camera. So we had some technical difficulties here, but we're we're going now.
Dax:I wanted to share some good news. Oh,
Adam:do, please.
Dax:But, you know, I got this mango tree, like, a month ago.
Adam:Mhmm.
Dax:And ever since I got it, I was pretty convinced that it was gonna die because the moment I got it, like, some of the leaves are turning gray and, like, crumbling. Like, it just it didn't even look like how plants normally die. It just looked like the tree got cursed, and then they're just, like, dissipating into dust or something. And then, like, a few of them started getting these black spots, and I was like, okay. This tree is definitely gonna die.
Dax:And, you know, I've been watering it. I've been taking care of it, but didn't look like it was gonna go well. And I swear to you, I look at this tree every single day. I'm pretty sure I looked at it yesterday. So this morning I go and I notice that there are 3 like little baby branches coming out the top each with like 4 leaves on it.
Dax:And each leaf is, like, an inch long. Wow. So there's new growth, which is really which is a really great sign. Yeah. But I swear this wasn't there yesterday.
Dax:And, like, can trees grow that? Is it did I just not notice, or can they grow that fast? Like I
Adam:don't know. That's that's pretty fast. How yeah. So there's all kinds of interesting stuff about plants that this reminds me of, that Casey's told me. Because we have a ton of houseplants.
Adam:Like, when we moved into this house, we just bought, like, tons of houseplants. And, like, there's been studies I mean, you've probably seen the music studies, like, that they respond to music and that they do certain I don't know. There's some kind of study about, like, them basically reading our minds and, like, playing off of our emotional states. And if you have, like, negative thoughts about a plant, you can actually, like, affect its health. I swear to you, it's a real study.
Adam:It sounds so fake, but you need to look it up that, like, your vibes, basically, can, like, affect the health of a plant. So it makes perfect sense to me that you bought a plant. It came into your home. It probably followed you on Twitter, and it started withering away. It was like, this guy this guy's evil.
Adam:I started dying immediately.
Dax:That is really great. Yeah. I wanna look into that. I love stuff like that because there's so many things in the world that fit in that category. And, yeah, it just is a hint that there's like so much more going on that we don't understand.
Adam:Yes.
Dax:And a lot of times it feels like there's no potential magic left in the world because, like, we understand so much. And Yeah. Explanation is usually not magical. But then you come across stuff like that, and it really
Adam:It reminds you how little we actually actually know. Like, I feel like there's this world that just we haven't even touched, but we don't understand at all.
Dax:Yeah. It's it's crazy. Liz is very convinced that we underplay the role of smells in like everything. She's convinced that when people don't like each other off the bat, there's just like a smell. And when people do like each other, it's smell related.
Dax:And then when people like each other and then like, you know, over time, like, the relationship kinda gets stale, it's because they get used to each other's smells. So Wow.
Adam:That's quite a theory. What about online relationships? I feel like
Dax:That's true. Maybe we're also weird to each other online because we can't smell each other. You know? That's the missing piece. It kinda makes sense because everywhere is where it seems like there's a psychic thing going on, it's it can only be explained through something like smells and isn't visibly transmitting.
Dax:You know?
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I I don't have a great sense of smell. I don't know what that says about is that like my emotional intelligence is also bad because I don't have a good smell?
Dax:I used to have a really good sense of smell. It just deteriorated over the years. I think it's, like, my first sense to be around. I just can't smell anything anymore.
Adam:I wonder if there's something to that. Like, if there's an order that your senses I'm sure there is. Like, an order that your senses typically go, like, as you age?
Dax:Yeah.
Adam:How weird that we're just aging. We're just marching towards this, like, inevitably bad life.
Dax:I don't wanna talk about this. I'm just not gonna I just hate the idea of getting old. Let's
Adam:not get old. Let's just avoid it somehow.
Dax:Let's talk about Apple. You said you wanna talk about Apple.
Adam:Oh my the app. Well, there's things to talk about. Like, apparently, they launched a new iPad, and people are like, it's the first time I've seen people have strong feelings about an Apple product in a while. Yeah. Or just, like, it was the ad, I guess, that people had strong feelings about.
Adam:I don't know. It just reminded me that, like, Apple's kinda become irrelevant. Like, we all use Apple stuff, but, like, in the public discourse, I don't remember people talking about Apple in a while, at least in our circles. And this is, like, the first time people are really upset that they're, like, crushing pianos and and stuff in this ad that they made.
Dax:Yeah. I have a lot of thoughts about the ad. But before that, that being irrelevant. Yeah, it's really funny because that's definitely true on one hand. But I was at my brother's graduation last week and we were sitting in like a big stadium waiting for the students to fill it up.
Dax:Yeah. And I was looking and I was like, wow, there's like hundreds of students here. They're all sitting in chairs. And then it struck me that every single one of them has an iPhone. And every couple of years they, like, go into the Apple Store and they get a new iPhone and they, like, sign up for whatever iPhone things there are.
Dax:And it's yeah. Just seeing that in front of me, it's really mind boggling that you could have that level of impact on. Like, every single person in there had one, probably.
Adam:Yeah. It's it's it's the legacy thing again, almost. I mean, not that Apple is like a legacy company because they're obviously, like, very relevant in terms of people's buying habits. Like, I'm not trying to discount that everybody in the US buys iPhones.
Dax:Mhmm.
Adam:But, and I'm saying in the US, maybe it's everywhere. I just I can't speak for everywhere. I only live in the US. I guess, like, it does feel like they most of their success is behind them in the sense that
Dax:Mhmm. Like,
Adam:when when was the last innovative thing they did? I guess they tried with the the VisionPRO. But, like, until there's some new form factor, it's just hard to see Apple, like, really blowing my mind. Like, they've just kinda, like, they've done the iterative thing for, like, a decade now where they just make little improvements. It's faster.
Adam:It's longer battery life, blah blah blah. And I don't know. I just don't care. Like, I I haven't cared about, like, an Apple event, and I used to follow Apple events. I haven't, like, even watched one in years.
Adam:And I don't know. Maybe it's maybe we just live too much on the cutting edge. I don't know.
Dax:I I mean, I feel the exact same way. I think to give them credit, I would say the AirPods are probably the last one. I know it's not as significant as a lot of other things, but if you do take
Adam:a step back a big part of my day. Yeah.
Dax:And, like, everybody has them. If you just look at AirPods sales on their own, it's, like, bigger than most companies.
Adam:Maybe they just set the bar too high, and, like, I'm judging them against their own past success. Against any other metric. Like, yeah, they're an amazing company. They still just make such good stuff. I mean, their hardware, their MacBooks, everything is just so good.
Dax:I think that I also feel that way. I think this is the classic thing where when the founder is gone, there's very few companies that still retain the magic. Like, I don't know why it would retain the magic. Like, these things do come down to a few people oftentimes.
Adam:That's really true.
Dax:Yeah. So I don't think if I was betting, like, yeah, I would say it's behind them, but we're not gonna know for sure until someone else invents the next big thing that they miss. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Dax:Microsoft missed the iPhone, so you know that they are done.
Adam:You know? Right. It's interesting. Yeah. But, like, are they done?
Adam:Yeah. That Microsoft's another case where it's like I think about the developer community and how much Microsoft has, like, infiltrated what people do every day in the developer world, like, just how much of our tooling. Like, they built such a it's when a company gets that big, and Apple's the same way, like, in terms of cash flow and just, like, amount of war chest that they have from their past success, it's like they can't go away for decades.
Dax:They can't go away. No. I mean and Microsoft the Microsoft developer thing is interesting because that's not like that was new. They actually owned a huge segment of developer population for
Adam:That's true.
Dax:Forever. And, like, some of the most
Adam:It's just they finally infiltrated the, like Yeah. Through The Twitter circles.
Dax:Yeah. But through acquisitions mostly. I know they built Versus Code. But, again, Versus Code is just an extension of what they've always been good at. Visual Studio has always been very good, and it's just gonna add a flavor of that.
Dax:I mean, I bought GitHub, and I bought NPM. And, TypeScript, you have to give them genuine credit for. I think that's also very good. But, again, just like it's just c sharp.
Adam:It's just derivatives of what they already had. Yeah. And if you think of, like, the 90% of developers quietly building in c sharp for the last decade, like, it's not that surprising. But it's just, like, they kind of infiltrated the open source community. Yeah.
Adam:And became cool in the last 5 years or whatever it's been.
Dax:Yeah. I would say the big paradigm shifts, though, were cloud. And I don't I think they missed cloud. They were linked to that. They let a random company that never built stuff for developers Yeah.
Dax:Win cloud.
Adam:Which is another conversation. How how weird is it that Amazon makes most of their profit from AWS? Like, the place where we buy everything makes most of their money selling compute.
Dax:Yeah. It's pretty cool because it, like, subsidizes this crazy growth, goal they have of, like, building this massive logistics business, which you can never do without a a crazy amount of money. Yeah. That doesn't make you a lot of money. So it's it's nice that they have this other thing.
Dax:It's you would have never, like, predicted or strategized that at all. It's, like, totally random.
Adam:Right.
Dax:Going back to the Apple commercial. So yeah. So Apple put out a commercial where it was one of those, what do you call them? Like a steel press? Like a giant press steel
Adam:I've never called
Dax:it. What's the name of it? Filled with tools that artists use, like music like instruments and cameras and and things like that. And this thing slowly comes down, crushes it all kinda in slow motion.
Adam:The thing that crushes cars. Right? Like, when they crush cars at the dump or whatever.
Dax:Yeah. And then, at the end, you see an iPad, and it's like, the idea is this iPad can now do all this stuff. And the response to it was crazy negative. And I will say I was actually surprised at how much I also hated the commercial because I'm not, like, the most creative person. Like, I never played instruments.
Dax:Like, a lot of those items don't resonate with me. Yeah. But I watched it and I was like, oh, yeah, that feels bad. And then it got to the part where it, like, broke the camera lenses. And that's what really got me.
Dax:And I realized it's not like I'm, like, a photographer, but, like, I know about camera lenses because I bought a bunch for my camera, and it's, like, something I have, like, even just a little bit of context for. And I was like, oof, like, I just know how expensive and nice those are.
Adam:Mhmm.
Dax:And it just felt so like like, just in my core back. I didn't like seeing that. And then and then I realized, okay, you know, people that have, like, much deeper connection with these things, like, they must feel like a 100 times worse. And I will say as soon as I saw this commercial and as I saw it and as I saw that a lot of people didn't like it, I didn't like it. I knew somebody out there was going to have the take of, well, everybody's talking about it, so their plan worked, which to me is just like the dumbest thing ever because, yes, that's definitely a dimension of things that people do.
Dax:But, like, also, people just mess up. That's still a thing that happens in the world where people just mess up. Giving someone a in their core like, not intellectual dislike of something, giving, like, a disgust in their core Yeah. That's not good.
Adam:It's not good. It's not good.
Dax:Matter if everyone is is talking about it. Like, like, it's very hard to do something that bad.
Adam:Is actually bad press, it turns out. Like, visceral negative reactions toward your brand, probably not good in the long run. It it just felt very out of touch with, like, the current vibes in the world. Like, I feel like 10 years ago, maybe the ad would have been different. But now it's like, I think that there's this return to, like, things that are good and not just in our screens.
Adam:There's, like, kind of an aversion to everything just being on our phone or on our devices Mhmm. And, like, wanting to get back to the good real world stuff. So it felt like a slap in the face to that. Like, they were just very out of touch with that. And, yeah, I don't it's like it it came down to, like, the wrong ad pitch from the wrong agency.
Adam:Like, Apple just, like, they they chose the wrong ad. It's not like a huge deal. It's not like this. But I think it is kind of, like, emblematic of the Steve Jobs thing. It's like, Steve Jobs probably wouldn't have had that ad.
Adam:Like, it takes just a few very, like, in touch people with a certain sense of style and a certain sense of everything that just, like, make the world go round. And you lose that, and Apple's just kinda, like, drifting. And maybe that's dramatic. But
Dax:Yeah. I mean, you see that with a lot of things. Like, sometimes you'll see a similar team get together again and create something, and it's worse. And then you realize, okay. There's, like, some magic here that, like, only existed Yeah.
Dax:In a certain time. And that might just come down to, like, a few people or or a few situations. Yeah. The, did you feel bad with watching the commercial? How did you feel about it?
Adam:So I've not watched it with the sound on. I've just, like, watched it scrolling through a Twitter feed. So maybe I need to watch it, like, up close. I haven't even, like, clicked on it to make it big. So I didn't even know there were camera lenses in it.
Adam:Maybe that would've got me. The piano thing That would definitely get you. Yeah. I need some camera lenses. I think, like, I didn't have strong feelings.
Adam:I didn't sit down and really take the time to to watch it, so I should reserve my judgment. But I think I get why people are upset. Like, I get the it just kinda, like, goes against the current current vibes in the community, I feel like.
Dax:Yeah. And I think that, the other interesting part that I saw, Ryan Florence. I don't know if you saw all of his tweets. They were so funny. He was like, I'm so mad that I can't even concentrate right now.
Dax:But his perspective laughing
Adam:at how mad he was. Yeah.
Dax:It's a funny situation. It's, well, it's funny because a bunch of people had this reaction where and I think Armin, also had something similar where Armin described it in a funny way. He was like, this iPad is such a negative there's so many negative emotions associated with it in my house because my kids always wanna use it, and we also take it away from them. It's always just, like, negative energy and memories around it. And they were like it was like this commercial, made the enemy of my house, like, the hero or something.
Dax:It was something like that. And I found that such a funny way to phrase it. And I think Ryan Florence said that same thing where he was like, he just constantly has to argue with his kids to go do real things. And Yeah. They're always, you know, just attached to this advice.
Dax:So it just triggered all this built up resentment and frustration in people.
Adam:That's such a good point that, like, the main use case for iPads is parents, their kids have an iPad. Like, literally, that's the only reason we have iPads is our boys, like, they do their screen time on an iPad. And that's, like, if Apple's trying to, like, replace creative tools with iPads, good luck because it hasn't happened yet. How long has iPad been out? Like, 10 years.
Adam:And mostly, they're for kids to watch YouTube. Like, that's the point of iPad. Like, there's no other form factor. There's no other, like, purpose for that form factor, I feel like. Yeah.
Adam:Than, like, little tiny hands holding it on the couch. I don't know.
Dax:Here's another thing. And this is also funny because I watched this interview a couple days ago. There's this guy, Jonathan Haight, and he is I don't know what he is. He's a researcher. And but, like, most researchers researchers suck and are stupid.
Dax:But he's a very good researcher.
Adam:That's such a DAX comment. Most researchers just suck, and they're stupid.
Dax:Well, most all peep most people in
Adam:any field
Dax:suck that they're stupid.
Adam:Yeah. And there's a few that are good. Yeah.
Dax:But researchers are supposed to be smart, so I just wanted to, like, you know, include that comment that they're not actually. Anyway, Jonathan Haidt. And he wrote a book recently around what seems like a very cliche topic, which is, like, you know, like, phones are ruining everything or, like, you know, all the problems are world because of of phones. That's kind of what it seems like on the surface. Mhmm.
Dax:But he is extremely smart and went super deep into this topic. I'll post the video later of this interview. And he talks so much about, like he's, like, drilled down the exact analysis of, like, historically when these phones entered kids' like childhoods. Yeah. And he talks a lot about, what makes what's important for a childhood and how exactly, very specifically, not just broadly or generically, how phones kind of get in the way of that.
Dax:And it was such a good interview and it, like, really impacted the way I thought about everything. And, like, you know, when we have kids, like, how we're gonna deal with the whole device thing with them. Oh, yeah. I already have a deal with looking that up.
Adam:I I need you to help me with your parenting, like, future parenting skills because you're gonna be really good at it. And then you just Let
Dax:me let me the person without any children, like, give you advice.
Adam:Please. That's what parents love
Dax:is when people are back. It's
Adam:But I actually
Dax:having a dog. It's not it's it's just the exact same thing.
Adam:How many times have you heard parents say, trust me. When you have kids, it'll be different. You won't look at your dog the same. Maybe you heard that, like, a 1000000 times.
Dax:Yeah. Yeah. I have. But I'm also, like, I'm also better than everyone, so I don't I just don't
Adam:know. I'm
Dax:like, he just, like, flies on back
Adam:like a duck. But for
Dax:me, it's gonna be totally different. Anyway, so in going into it, I was like, I know this is an issue, and I know we have to be, like, really thoughtful about, this all of this. But I didn't think it was that big of a deal. But now I'm, like, very much more on the side of so he basically recommends that, no cell phones till they're in high school. Yep.
Dax:And the whole iPad thing, he just says, like, just just don't do it. Yeah. And he says the only reason it happens is there's this weird social norm. Everyone does it. So your kid's like, well, they all have it.
Dax:Why can't I? Yeah. And that's, like, impossible pressure. And it's so funny. It's like a weird trap.
Dax:If a majority of people just randomly were like, we're not gonna do this, the problem just goes away. And that's what he pointed out. He, like, points out, like, all these, like, seemingly intractable problems, like mental health issues and, like, suicide and, like, all of these crazy things. It's literally we could actually fix it in a year if, like, for a year, a majority of people committed to living it. So that's kinda what he's pushing.
Dax:He's like, if we all just kind of agree to this, the pressure vanishes. So he talks a lot about, kids having to play, like, in person with each other. It's different than, you know, interacting over the device. Mhmm. Also, unsupervised play and this is how I grew up, and this is how a lot of us grew up.
Dax:Like, I would hang out with my friends, like, around the neighborhood almost every day, and there weren't adults. Like, we had to figure stuff out on our own. Mhmm. I had some negative experiences, of course, but, like, they're fine. Not everything is, you know, traumatic.
Dax:And, so there's that, and there's, like, risk taking. Like, kids need to take risk and, like, be in situations where, you know, they could get hurt and they, like, are afraid and they, like, learn where the boundaries are, things like that.
Adam:Interesting.
Dax:And he talks about how the activities that people do on these devices or kids do on these devices replaces a lot of those interactions Yeah. Yeah. As fundamental. So I can see how I can totally see that. I can see how that just takes up several hours that they would otherwise be doing something else, and there's only x amount of hours in a day.
Dax:Yep. At this point, I'm like, yeah, it is just this weird social trap, and I definitely wanna try to, like, just not not be part of that.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. I I heard something on I think it was on Bill Simmons' podcast. He had this guy on they talked about, like, future things, just like studies that are pointing at trends. And and one of the things was just about and this has been known for a while, but just that teenagers don't hang out anymore.
Adam:Like, it's one thing, like, little kids growing up in the neighborhood. But, like, teenagers used to always spend time together. That's how they socialize before phones, like, when we were growing up. And now it's just, like, nonexistent that they don't go to each other's houses. They don't like, everything they do is is online, which is yeah.
Adam:You you just you know, whether it's good or bad, you know that's a very different childhood, and it's gotta have serious impact.
Dax:Yeah. The interesting thing he points out, he calls it like a 2 faced thing. He says, in the nineties, this trend of, like, locking the kids up increased where, like, kids were kept at home. And things didn't immediately change then. Like, there wasn't all these big problems right after that.
Dax:But then the moment, smartphones became a normal thing that kids have Mhmm. The 2 of those things combined, that's when everything triggered. So, yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah.
Dax:I think it just, like, you know, becomes exponentially more of a problem.
Adam:It it almost like, it feels like we kinda got really lucky. I guess I'm 5 years older
Dax:than you. I feel the exact same way.
Adam:I I lost the whole thing, and
Dax:I was like, wow. Like, I could have been a totally different person. Yeah. I barely missed it. Yeah.
Adam:Like, me specifically, so you're you're a little younger. But I got a a phone, I think, my sophomore year of high school. But they were the phones that was literally just like t nine SMS text messages. Like, there was no iPhone.
Dax:A smartphone in high school. My parents didn't let me get one. Yeah.
Adam:So I but I did have the ability to text my friends, like, my junior and senior year, and I feel like that just added to our friendships. Like, I don't think that took away. We weren't, like, on Snapchat or whatever. Like, we we just, like, shoot texts as we're headed over to each other's houses and stuff. So I feel like it timed out really well for me where, like Yeah.
Adam:I got to enjoy some of the benefits without a lot of the downsides. But, yeah, just think, like, just 10 years difference, like, growing up 10 years later and suddenly your whole life is different because of this technology that it's like there's you you realize at some point, there's there's nobody really looking out for you as, like, a consumer. Like, nobody really knows what this means for society or for you as an individual, And you're just kind of, like, it's playing out for you. I'm I feel like you have thoughts on something like that, like, you would have opinions about technology and how it shapes our world and blah blah blah, and it's just an interesting device, or I don't know.
Dax:I I think it's it's mind blowing how quick this problem happened. Like like you said, we, like, just barely missed it by a matter of years, like, ourselves being impacted by this problem. And it's now such like a giant problem, and it just was invented so quickly. And I just I just can't believe that. The other thing that Liz pointed out, which is actually kinda crazy, is we kinda have to fix it in our generation because we're the last people with memories of this other childhood.
Adam:Yeah. Right. Oh, that's a great point. Yeah. Like, it's on us.
Adam:And it's affected us too. I mean, like, our adult life is changed because of phones. I spent a lot of time on a phone. I wish I didn't.
Dax:Same.
Adam:So it's not like we escaped it completely. It's just we escaped it during those formative years where I feel like I can't imagine, like, not having the childhood I had where just the social structure of of having friends and spending time together. Like, if you take all that away, that's gotta have impact. And, yeah, there's whole generations of kids that if we don't change something Yeah. It's like we're the responsible adults in the room.
Adam:We gotta fix it.
Dax:So in this interview, at the end, he also relates it to a lot of the weird cultural stuff that exists now. So he says that because kids didn't take risk, and that's like a thing that disappeared, they entered college kind of unprepared. And if you look at a lot of the discussions on in the past, like, 10 years, like, type of things that have been happening in college campuses, like like, we all agree free speech is good. But in a lot of these campuses, there's been things like like striking people down or, like, suppressing speech because it would be bad for my mental health or it would, like, you know, traumatize me. You know?
Dax:There's, like, this weird Yeah. Like, he's a he's a phrase illiberal, which I think is, like, very accurate, which is the opposite of what?
Adam:Illiberal? Yeah.
Dax:It's it's, like, illiberal to, like, try to suppress people in general.
Adam:Mhmm. Yeah.
Dax:And he he theorizes that this new thing emerged because of you know, this is all related. Yeah. That there's, like, this weird fragility. So he talks a lot about the book is about how to raise an antifragile child, which I love because antifragile is, like, one of my favorite concepts from
Adam:That's what's his name? Right?
Dax:Few other books that I've read. Yeah. Taleb.
Adam:Yeah. Taleb.
Dax:Yeah. So he talks about, like, the fragility, and he, like, links it all together. And he also talks about how so he how he's an atheist, and the extreme downside of that is not having community and how he has to work extra hard. Mhmm. He points out how, people that are religious are generally happier, like, on average.
Dax:Yeah. And a lot of the you know, kids don't have this exact problem because there's a lot of built in community stuff that happens. So he ties, like, a lot a lot of things together, and I found it super interesting.
Adam:What's the book? What was it called? Or is it a book or something else? How can I read this or consume it in some way?
Dax:It's called well, I'll I'll link The Anxious Generation. I'll link you to the it was a interview on The Daily Show. It was like a 20 minute interview. Here's a crazy part. So I watched it, and then I told Liz, hey.
Dax:You should watch I wanna show you this thing. I think you'll find it really interesting. And I described the same way I said. I was like, he's a I think he's like a sociologist, but he's not stupid. He's really smart.
Dax:And
Adam:she goes an entire profession. He's a sociologist, but he's not stupid. Like, he's actually smart.
Dax:And she goes, oh, is it Jonathan Haid? And I was like I was like, how did you know? That's amazing. And it's, like, the most random guess ever because she, so she Liz used to be a researcher, in psychology. That's that's where she started.
Dax:And she, like, came across his work very early on. It was, like, really formative for her. And he would he he wrote a lot about a completely different topic, like, 20 years ago, and she feels like like, 15 years ago, and she feels like it was totally correct and totally accurate. Yeah. And just me describing him in this way was enough for her to tie it together.
Adam:That's amazing. I I get the I get the researcher vibes from Liz. I've gotten to work with Liz on she's been very heavily involved with terminal. Yeah. It's been great to have her, her brain.
Adam:And, yeah, I I see the researcher in that.
Dax:And and to be clear, the reason I insult researchers is because I I've learned so much from her explaining what that world is like. Yeah. Plus, like, my own research
Adam:side. Baseball.
Dax:Yeah.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. There's other stuff to talk about.
Dax:Is there?
Adam:I feel like there's something else happening that I wanted to talk about. I I I make notes in my brain, like, about things later, and then I forget. I don't write them down. So writing things down is so lame. What's that?
Adam:That's not, I guess, yet. Yeah.
Dax:Just the opposite of notes.
Adam:Oh, I got something. I got something. This is not a a big deal. But, do you ever, like, have a thought and you just immediately know, like, I'm a person I don't wanna be? Like, the I had the thought the other day.
Adam:I got a haircut. And have we ever talked about haircuts on the podcast? I feel like no.
Dax:Probably not.
Adam:Because it
Dax:probably wouldn't have come up for
Adam:me. Okay. Well, here's the thing about haircuts is I mean, you've had haircuts in your life. You can relate to this. The the, like I
Dax:had a haircut last week.
Adam:Oh, well, there you go. Do do but do you do it yourself, or do you, like, go to a barber?
Dax:So I I usually shave my head myself, but then sometime the past couple weeks have been super busy, so I've been really off of it. And when I let my hair grow too long like, right now, it's a little too long. It's like a pain in the ass for me to do it myself, so I will just go and get, like, a really nice You
Adam:go to a barber?
Dax:Yeah. They, like, massage my head. Like, this is like a yeah. Go ahead.
Adam:Do you talk to your barber? Like, do you feel like you have a relationship with your barber?
Dax:Okay. So I've always been someone that hates talking to people. So
Adam:Me too.
Dax:I have always hated going to the barber.
Adam:Yes. And Me too. Okay. We have the same thought.
Dax:But that said, at some point in my life, I, like, kinda recognize that this is just, like, a weakness. It's one of those things where Wow.
Adam:You know,
Dax:it's like some people are extroverted and some people are introverted, and they're both good. I don't actually agree with that. I think it's just better to be introverted, and being introverted is just a flaw.
Adam:A flaw. So it's I get it. Yeah.
Dax:At some point, I was like, I should work on this part of myself. So I tried to be better. And the barber I kept going to, I was, like I had, like, a better rhythm with, you know. I was, like, you know, it was, like, away from your practice, that type of thing. But, I stopped going, so I started shaving my my own head.
Dax:Then I went again last week because, you know, I let it grow for too long. And he was not he doesn't work there anymore. He he's not there anymore.
Adam:Oh, no. Still got
Dax:a new person. I'm like, okay. Great. Okay. I can practice this again.
Dax:He doesn't speak English that well. Oh.
Adam:That's the dream.
Dax:He would prefer not to talk, and my instinct is to not talk. So we just didn't talk at all.
Adam:So I I've always, like this has been a thing I hate about getting haircuts. I mean, I just it's a thing. I hate to take time out of the week to, like, go get a haircut. But then I extra hate it because I just hate that social pressure of, like, carrying on a conversation with a stranger. And I guess, like, I've gotten my haircut from the same person for 2 years or something now, so it's not a stranger.
Adam:But, like, we have nothing in common, and it just it it I've had barbers in the past where, like, they're very easy to talk to, and it's just kind of like it's not a pressure. But most of the experiences I have maybe it's a flaw of mine. I'm an introvert. Most of the experiences are not great, where it's like we don't have, like, a good rhythm with talking, and it's just very forced. And it feels awkward to just sit there in silence, but I just wanna sit there in silence.
Adam:And the thought I had, tying it back, to the beginning when I said, do you ever have a thought? And you're just like, oh, man. Like, I I sometimes I have a thought, and I think, like, I am that tech bro that I don't wanna be. Like like it's like not wanting to become your father or something, but knowing you will become your father. But it's like, for me, it's not wanting to be a tech bro.
Adam:And I had the thought, like, man, I wonder if I could just wear AirPods. Like, could I just listen to podcasts? I get my haircut. Would that be awkward? Would he be like, what an idiot?
Adam:Or would he be like, no. This is nice. We don't have to talk now? Is that is that terrible?
Dax:I I think that zoomed in in a situation I'm sure, of course, there's some barbers that are like, I just don't wanna talk to the person, but they feel pressured like they have to, and the person feels like and then it's like this awkward thing that nobody wants. So I totally see that. But if you, like, step back and, like, thinking about, like, what is the point of being alive, like, that that feels wrong. Right? That's that's why you feel bad.
Adam:Okay. Fine.
Dax:You're you're being self aware and you feel bad, and that's why you don't wanna become that person.
Adam:I know.
Dax:Here's another funny bit. So the barbershop I go to is, like, this crazy masculine Miami spot. All the barbers are just so cool, and they have just, like, great rhythm with each other. And, like, it's just it's like the the highest challenge as an introvert to, like, go in there. There's there's they're all just so, like, swaggy and, like
Adam:Yeah. Yeah.
Dax:It's it's just, it's it's a crazy environment. So I I look at it as, like, if it's an opportunity for me to
Adam:To work on that area.
Dax:These these things that are that are useful everywhere. I don't know if your spot necessarily you can look out of that way.
Adam:Well, this this last time, I just went a couple days ago. I was the only person in there. There was no other barbers. It was just me and him. It's a giant room, and it was kinda awkward, like, where are all the people?
Adam:What happened? But, like, is it just Monday afternoon? This is what it looks like at the barbershop? What you said the point of being alive. What is the point of being alive, Dax?
Adam:Because it the like, is it to be social? Is that it?
Dax:If you could go and watch a replay of your life, would you feel bad that you wore AirPods during Yes. Yeah. You would. In the moment, you probably would be like, this is convenient. But
Adam:I I have all those terrible I hate to even say this loud, but I have all these thoughts like, oh, man. Imagine if I could listen to my book while I get my haircut. That's like a whole another hour.
Dax:It's just so bad. No.
Adam:I'm such an idiot.
Dax:No. I I have to say we all have the same things. It's like we're always trying to figure out how to, like, multitask.
Adam:Yeah. Like, min, max. Like, yeah. The amount of, I don't know, learning and whatever I can do in a day. It's so stupid.
Dax:Yeah. It's just like so I you know, when I blow bubbles for Zuko in the morning.
Adam:Yeah. You do that. We haven't talked about that on podcast, have we? I don't think we've talked about it.
Dax:No. I talk about it all the time. We've talked about it several times.
Adam:Oh, have we?
Dax:I think it's I think it's just so surprising every time I bring it up. It feels like it's the first time that I'm talking about it.
Adam:This part of your routine. Yeah.
Dax:And every morning, first thing I do, I go outside, and Zuko is super excited because he knows what's gonna happen. I blow bubbles for him for 10 minutes, and he goes crazy, gets super tired. I used to just do this normally, but my new habit has been listening to my book in the morning. So I listen for just, like, during my morning routine including that.
Adam:Mhmm.
Dax:And it's fine. I I and, you know, I don't really have a problem with it even if I sit back and look at it. Like, I that's like my time to do that. I don't really listen to it otherwise. But I'm definitely, like, connecting with my dog less.
Dax:And, like, we we play again in the evening, and that's, like, more direct. And it's, like, a totally different thing. Like, I'm actually, like
Adam:Yeah.
Dax:I'm having a completely different experience, and that experience is way more valuable than listening to this book. So I do recognize that, like, I'm getting more done and I'm like, you know, double stacking both of these things that I need to do together, but it's like, what's a point kind of?
Adam:Yeah. I had the same realization with playing with my 3 year old. When he was littler, it just felt like, I mean, like, I could listen to stuff. Like, what's the deal? Like like, at first, it felt a little bad, like, I'm listening to a stupid audiobook while I'm playing with my 3 year old.
Adam:And then it was just kinda, like, became normal. But then it it, I think, as he got a little older, it became more obvious that, like, what what am I doing in life? Like, I'm missing something. If I'm spending all my time that I can possibly spend just, like, listening to some stupid biography, but what's the point? Like, why even have kids?
Adam:Why even have a family? Like, I'm not even gonna be here.
Dax:Yeah. Yeah. It's just a weird thing. Like, even just making eye contact more than you normally would. It's like a completely different thing.
Dax:Mhmm. Yeah. We all suck that way.
Adam:We all suck.
Dax:I'll play
Adam:this way. Yeah. There's certain things I don't wanna be, and then I realized how much there's, like, this draw towards that. It's like this inevitable path that I feel like I'm on. I guess it's not inevitable, though.
Adam:It's conversations like these. I can break out of it. I cannot wear my AirPods at the barber. I can start talking to my barber. I can try.
Adam:He mostly just talks about movies, and I just don't watch movies much. It's like that when there's other barbers in the room, they're just constantly talking about, like, the new movie that came out. And I'm like, I just I have nothing to say here. I haven't watched I haven't watched a movie in the theater in,
Dax:like, 10 years. And and but that's a challenge. Right? Like, when there's a conversation going on that you can't directly relate to, like, how how can you still be, like, an interesting, useful member of that conversation? You know, that's Yeah.
Dax:Definitely and there's people that do that extremely well. Right? Like, you see people that are just very charismatic.
Adam:I mean, now you've got me viewing, like, the intro extrovert thing totally differently. Like, it really is just better to be, like, personable and so many people wanna be around. Like, of course.
Dax:Of course, I'm better. It's just Well, but I'm
Adam:an introvert. It's like, oh, so you're just not very fun to be around. Cool. Enjoyed that in life.
Dax:Yeah. It's like the we there's the the world exists as it is, And it Yeah. Goes with people and random each other. So it's just worse when Yeah. It's hard for you to do that.
Adam:That's such a good point.
Dax:Do you
Adam:do you do, like, personality tests? Do you have any opinions on, like any any time I get sucked into this stuff, and I think we've probably talked about it. We're coming up on a 100 episodes. We've talked about everything at this point. It's just gonna be a lot of rehashing.
Adam:If you listen to this podcast, good luck. It's just gonna be a lot of the same stuff for the next 100. But, like, every time I do a personality test or I'm, like, at all made aware of them for a week, I'm blown away that, like, that we all just fit into these very clean buckets. Like, that's so it seems so scientific and truth that, like, you can't escape it. You are a certain type of person.
Adam:Do you believe in that stuff? Or is it not even believing? I don't know what it is.
Dax:I think that my experience of personality tests is I think I personally am a very obvious stereotype of a, like, a persona. And the stereotype has been around for, like, years years years, and it's, like, whatever. So whenever I take a personality test, it feels like a psychic reading. It's like
Adam:Yeah.
Dax:Yeah. Describes weird details that are so crazy accurate.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. So And if you do it with your significant other, it's like you keep looking at each other like Exactly. What did they know?
Dax:But at the end of the day, they're just horoscopes for slightly smarter people. You know? That's that's really all it is.
Adam:So is it just a pseudoscience? Like, it's not real?
Dax:I I think there's a lot of value in it because, like I said, this this I am a real stereotype. That is a real thing. And if you read that, you will understand
Adam:Yeah.
Dax:A lot about me and my behavior. And it's impressive that we've been able to, like, identify that. Yeah. A lot of it, though, there's definitely a dimension of it's phrased in a way that anyone could read and see it in themselves even if it's, like, crazy specific, which is kinda what a horoscope
Adam:That's what a horoscope
Dax:horoscopes or psychic readings, they kinda do the same thing. Right? It has to
Adam:Yeah.
Dax:Feel really specific, but, like, secretly be really broad. You know?
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dax:So I think they're useful, and I think they're real. It's just that, there's this other kind of illusion going on on 2. Because it it never includes you only remember all the stuff that it got. Right? You don't think about, like The stuff that wasn't really.
Dax:Like this, and that wasn't in there. But, like, you have to be really self aware of exactly what you're like to be looking for that. So you just would never Yeah. Find it there. Yeah.
Adam:The horoscopes for smarter people, that that stuck with me. I'll remember that.
Dax:I I gotta find a better way to phrase that because I don't actually wanna say smarter people. I wanna say something like horoscopes for people that think they're smart. I think that's what I tools. Yeah. Yeah.
Dax:Yeah. Yeah. Something like that.
Adam:I didn't know you were a stereotype. You seem very unique. I don't know anybody like you, at least not your, like, online persona.
Dax:If you look at I mean, a lot of people get this result, INTJ. I wouldn't be surprised that you're also INTJ.
Adam:On INTJ. Yeah. Exactly.
Dax:Yeah. But if you I would I would probably argue if you read an INTJ description, you probably think it applies to you. But I think you would probably say I have exaggerated versions of a lot of those traits. So I think it tends to, like, really, like, stick out for me. But, yeah, I guess a lot of people are technically falling into that bucket.
Adam:Yeah. Okay.
Dax:I took another test that they make kids in high school take to, like, figure out their career path? Oh.
Adam:Like, what what's the good careers? Yeah. I think I've done this.
Dax:I forgot. I had a name, but I forgot. Yeah. It was a long test. It took me, like, 30 minutes to complete, and the results were terrible.
Dax:Like, it was just was not good at all. It gave me this really complex visualization and, like, yeah, like, I could see, like, the career path I've chosen that I think is right in there somewhere, but it was like kind of a reach. The thing that I told me to do, I forgot what it told me to do directly. It was like just not related to what I would wanna do ever at all.
Adam:It it's kind of, like, a miracle that anybody has ever, like, happy with their work, that we end up in stuff that like, I feel very fortunate, I guess, that I enjoy what I do. Because you think about, like, high school and, like, somehow going into adulthood and figuring out a path that makes sense that you actually make a living doing. Like, there's no preparing. There's no, like, aptitude tests or whatever. They're really gonna get you there.
Adam:Right? Like, guidance counselors in high school, they don't have any idea what you should do. It's kinda funny that that's even a role as I think about it. Like, to look at a high school kid and be like, you'd be a good construction worker. Like, who knows?
Adam:What?
Dax:Is that what guy scouts do?
Adam:I don't know. Don't they, like, try and help you, like, decide what you should study in college so you can decide what you should work on in life? I think college is all made up too. Sorry. Go ahead.
Dax:Well, I had I mean, you know where I went to high school was, like, this crazy, like, competitive
Adam:Yeah. Yeah.
Dax:High school where everybody was, like, already had a lot of drive around those things. So the guidance counselors in our school And I
Adam:went to Willow Springs High School. Sorry.
Dax:The guidance counselor in our schools, like, had nothing to add in that dimension. They weren't like most of the kids are like, I already knew I was gonna be a doctor by age of 3. And, like, they're just been on that trajectory their whole life.
Adam:That is not that's what I'm talking about. Yeah.
Dax:I think for us, the guys cousins were there to, like, make sure people didn't kill themselves because they were studying too hard. Like, it was a very different type of role.
Adam:Yeah. Our guidance counselors were there to make sure we didn't kill ourselves over meth. I think that was the main the main thing. Like, if you just go to college, that's success, you know, in rural Ozarks. But then, like, I did have we talked about college?
Adam:I just think college is the biggest scam ever. Is it because I
Dax:More so. Yeah.
Adam:Got into tech? Yeah. More and more so. Right? Like, the when I see those charts where, like, college costs have increased by whatever, it's like they were already really high.
Adam:And the fact that they're outpacing inflation is just such a joke that we keep doing it. Like, why do people still go to college? I mean, I guess, what's the alternative? But, like Yeah. I don't know.
Adam:Not going to college? That's an alternative.
Dax:If you don't know what to do, it seems like a safe bet, which is probably if you at the at the root of it all, that's what it comes down to. It's unclear what you should be doing, so you do that.
Adam:But it's such an expensive thing just to, like, continue to draw out adulthood and try and figure or, like, to draw out your childhood and delay adulthood is what it feels like.
Dax:Yeah. Going to my brother's graduation was funny because I'd never had that, like, prototypical college experience. And he, like, had it, like, to a tee. Like, it was like, the house he lived in was on, like, this perfect, like, big college house with a bunch of kids lived there, but it was nice. And it was on this, like, really cool street and, like, you know, walk to campus, and it was, like, you know, exactly what you're So
Adam:the classic college life is still alive and well. Like Yeah. It hasn't changed.
Dax:Yeah. But here's a funny bit. So during the graduation by the way, I hate graduations. Everyone hates graduations. Everyone hates it.
Dax:Why do we can do it? Boring thing ever.
Adam:Everyone is just miserable torture.
Dax:Yeah. The students don't care. Nobody likes it. Nobody cares. We still do it.
Adam:It's like LinkedIn. Let's stop pretending that
Dax:we care.
Adam:Yeah. So you think something's fake, I just think of LinkedIn.
Dax:So they had a speaker, and this was, a someone who graduated from the school and, like, was involved in alumni board something something.
Adam:Mhmm.
Dax:And they were talking about, like this is Indiana University. They were saying things like, when you leave here, like, you're not done with IU. The IU network is gonna be part of your whole life, and there's, like, a 100000 people still. And they're you're just talking about how every part of your career was gonna be influenced by IU. And my brother told me my brother's reaction was like, what are they talking about?
Dax:And he was saying that someone behind him was like, what the hell? Like, I don't even have a job. Like, what? God, you know, he hasn't done anything for me. And they're just like, totally this fake exaggerated thing.
Dax:But, like, a lot of it is is that. It's, like, performative in one thing. You know, it's they wanna make you believe that if you're a part of this thing, it's gonna impact you forever, and it's gonna be serving you forever. And that's the way they want you to see it. But, you know, it's just it's just not true.
Dax:Like, nothing can there's nothing like that that's gonna save you. Right? Like Yeah. Just because you went to this school isn't gonna, like, save you from, like, all the things that can happen in the world and, like, the competition and the chaos and and all that. But they definitely frame it, like, all of college and school is frame where if you do x, y, and z, you guarantee this outcome, which is it's just not true.
Dax:And that's a that's a part that I don't like about that whole system.
Adam:Yeah. I'd like I guess the alternative to like, I would never want my kids just going to college and doing the whole, like, standard American path because it just feels so doomed. But, like, the can everyone, like, chart their own path? Is there, like yeah. I know you've talked in the past about, like, we need certain things to just be decided for us and, like, to have easy paths in certain areas of life.
Adam:Can everybody take the difficult path where they chart their own way? Like, I feel like we've done it. Like, we've definitely had careers where we didn't do the typical thing. But, like, if if most of everyone did that, is that even possible? Can an like, an economy be made up of mostly solopreneur types?
Dax:I have no clue. Like, it's it's really confusing. I would argue though that
Adam:Let's get Liz researching on that. Yeah.
Dax:I would argue that it's actually more like that than most people think. Like, if you look at, Liz's entire family, none of them have, like, corporate jobs because they came here as immigrants from Cuba. Like, they're not gonna land a corporate job. So they all just ended up having, like, random But Continue. Just kidding.
Dax:No one would ever hire those Cuban.
Adam:Yeah. Cuban executives? Are you kidding? Sorry.
Dax:Yeah. So they all just ended up having these, like, really random careers. And a lot of them ended up with small businesses. We know one of them ended up with, like, the business biggest businesses business that I, like, ever seen.
Adam:Yeah.
Dax:So, like, their whole family, like, just figured out random stuff. And that's like, a lot a large number of people. Like, not a single person in her parents' generation, which is, like, you know, within the family, it's, like, a 100 people, had that traditional path.
Adam:And there
Dax:was, like, a ton of room for them to figure out all this random stuff.
Adam:Is that a uniquely immigrant thing?
Dax:I think immigrants are because of just the situation, like, they're forced to that. But even the what's the idea of, like, a corporate job? Like, when did that show up? Maybe, like, after World War 2 is my guess. Like, the idea of, like, getting a job at a company and, like, working your way up and, like, going into the office and following the structure.
Adam:It seems so fake and dumb to me. I'm sorry. It's like I feel like most of our economy is just fluff that doesn't need to exist. I just It's just it feels like you get rid of, like, whole giant towers full of people that are doing fake jobs, and everything we continue.
Dax:What are they doing? It's like
Adam:What are they doing?
Dax:Because what I'm Okay. We have we have these documents, and we need you to, like, take every third word from this document and put it into this other document so that this other person can do the same thing backwards the other way. And that's what it seems like. How can this how can we have enough? And that was another thing, the graduation.
Dax:I was, like, looking at all, like, these thousands of children effectively, and I'm like, someone's gonna pay these people to do what? Like, what? All of these people are about to go? Like, what in the world? Like, most of them have jobs?
Dax:Like, why? Like, why is anyone paying them to do anything? Like
Adam:I think that's where my the root of my question comes from. It's like, does there just need to be, like, this giant middle, like, 80% of the working class is just, like, fake jobs because we don't there's not really enough room for everybody to do the, like, creating and creating jobs and, like, that has to necessarily be a small percentage of the working I don't know. Do you know what I'm getting at?
Dax:I think I think it's just one of those things that's just beyond human comprehension. Like, we can't understand the scale of the universe, and we also can't understand how the hell 300,000,000 people have work.
Adam:That's just America.
Dax:Yeah. Yeah. It just, like, doesn't it doesn't make any sense at all, but I don't know. I have no answers here. It's just like
Adam:I guess we don't need to understand. I don't know what I would do with the information if I had it. It's just like one of those questions I feel like keeps nagging at me. I know I've brought this up in various forms over the course of the podcast even. Like, there's just something about the it ties into the college thing.
Adam:It ties into the, like, typical path that someone maybe it's as a parent. Maybe I'm just trying to get ahead of, like, how do I help steer my my kids in the right direction?
Dax:That that's where I think of it about it too. It's like, I think, ultimately, you just want them to be curious and, like, look Yeah. For opportunities and and follow things. And I think it's just as broad as that. But, yeah.
Dax:I mean, like but I I think the reality is I do think a lot more people are in this, like, doing my own weird thing category than we imagine. It's just not in areas that we typically see. Like I said, I only see it because Liz's family is in that category, but it's all sorts of random stuff. Like, one person will become a vet. And when you're, like, a vet, you're I know that's, like, an official You're
Adam:a small business owner.
Dax:Yeah. You're you're, like, running a small business and, like, someone else does construction and someone else like, all all of those are, like, big pool. Construction is a huge part of our economy. Yeah. And a lot of that is, like, this just doing random stuff thing.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. So maybe maybe it is much more of the economy than I realized. Like, small business owners, it's not just like I have a storefront in town, and I have a small business. Like, it's so many different professions are inherently small business owners
Dax:Really? Doing contract work
Adam:or whatever.
Dax:Yeah. Like, it's kind of all in that in that same thing.
Adam:Yeah. So now as I think about it, like, in my area where I'm at, like, in the in Southwest Missouri in the Ozarks, there's not a lot of, like, corporate jobs.
Dax:Like, there's not a lot
Adam:of, like, those fake jobs that I can't understand because there's not big corporations here. It's like, it mostly is the small business thing. Interesting. Maybe it is the way I want it to be. Maybe the world looks more like I'd like it to than I realize, and I just see stuff played out in pop culture with the, like, climb the corporate ladder.
Adam:And I'm like, what is that?
Dax:Yeah. I definitely am like yeah. I think that stuff is just doesn't make any sense to me. But,
Adam:it's like college and fraternities and corporate ladders. Those all are, like, somehow binded together for me, and it just seems so dumb and fake.
Dax:Yeah. The other thing is, I think a lot of jobs are with the government. So and, like, the government's lawyers to kind of, like, make up jobs. Like, they're a lot of different things. They're just jobs, programs in disguise.
Dax:Like, the one we recently had experience with, USPS. Oh, god. We're dropping off all the terminal packages there. It is so wild. Like, we went so we had like, about half of our stuff was UPS and half of our stuff was USPS.
Dax:You go to UPS. They have a process. They're like, leave your stuff here. They get you in and out. They're done.
Dax:You go to USPS and, like, nobody knows anything. Like, we we go there, and it's a big post it's a big post office. The one in town is a it's a big one. There's nobody behind the desk anyway. There's no employees.
Dax:It's just a bunch of customers standing around, clicking around, like, where the hell is anyone? Then finally someone shows up, and we're like, okay. We have all these boxes. Where do we put them? And she just, like, doesn't know.
Dax:And then she's, like, go around the back to the loading dock. And we're, like, okay. Be like, go. Look. There's no there's no around bag loading dock.
Dax:This is not, like, a real thing. She's, like, made it up. And then we go back, and then we just end up, like, leaving it in this random, like, court quarter. And Yeah. Apparently, they do get shipped, and they get destroyed.
Dax:And
Adam:And they get destroyed.
Dax:As well. They get out.
Adam:What is the deal? I've never seen anything I mean, I guess we shipped, like, several 100 boxes at once. So I guess there's some percentage of those that are gonna get they're gonna have a hard time. But it seemed like a large percentage of our boxes just got dropkicked and, like, torn. Some of the boxes were, like, torn over.
Adam:Some people did get coffee. Like, some people, the the the box was so beat up that the coffee bag fell out during shipping. How is that even possible? And and and it just
Dax:the thing that cracks me up is the person delivering the last step of that being like Yeah. Yeah. Like, this is kinda like a fucked up empty bath. I'm just getting delivered anyway.
Adam:I don't understand.
Dax:Oh my god. Like, what so bad.
Adam:I know that the boxes we got in upon further inspection, the first inspection. I mean, we bought them sight unseen. Upon inspection, they're not the thickest boxes. Like, okay. They're maybe not ideal for shipping.
Adam:But still, I feel like there's some, like, hatred involved here. This is not just coincidence. Somebody my theory is the UPS man does not like you guys because Zuko was left out one too many times. And they, like, take all the boxes from your house, and they, like, do something to him first. I don't know.
Dax:Yeah. It's funny because I can understand crushing. Okay. In the process of being transferred, the process just gets smushed. I totally get that.
Dax:Why are they shredded? Like, is there any kind of, like, wild animal involved in this process? Like
Adam:Can you tell me where you put tape on the boxes? All the pictures of the beat up boxes have tape in places I don't think you put tape. It's like the the post office put tape on it. They're, like, sorry.
Dax:I think too. I was looking I was like I was like, there's way too much tape on this. I don't think we use that much. It's it's a complete mystery. We gotta, like, ship a camera that's recording or something because I, like, I need to know what is going on.
Adam:Yes. Or even just an audio recorder. Like, maybe we'd hear what's going on at the time that the most noise I don't know. It was Yeah. Insane.
Dax:Anyway, USPS, just just nonsense.
Adam:But we're gonna use thicker boxes or mailers or something. It's just nonsense.
Dax:We learned. The mail mailers, I think, solve the problem. Like, that's so obvious. Like, yeah. Yeah.
Dax:Not gonna have an issue with those.
Adam:Yeah. It's not quite as nice as a box. It bums me out a little bit, but, like, I also the boxes people are getting are bumming me out as well.
Dax:If I do think about it though, I actually think opening a mailer is more satisfying to me. Like, like, ripping the top and then getting the thing, I do I do like that. Something about that feels sleek. Okay. So Yeah.
Dax:Like, with the box, you're always, like, trying to pull it off, and the tape is, like, kinda holding it shut. You know, like, get scissors and and all that. So
Adam:That's true. You have to, like, slice it open.
Dax:Yeah. Yeah. So I think I'm fine with the mailer. As long as the mailer looks cool. And by cool, we mean matte black.
Adam:Matte black. Yeah. Matte black is inherently cool, it turns out.
Dax:Yeah.
Adam:Oh, man. This kind of business is so fun. I'm just having so much fun with with the terminal thing. It's
Dax:Yeah. It's a lot of fun. It's so funny. And then, you know, going back to what we're saying, you know, some bad press is just bad press. I do think the shredded boxes, though, were kind of funny.
Dax:I think people
Adam:Yeah. It's it's become kind of a funny thing on Twitter, at least. There's probably people who didn't say anything that were disappointed when their box looked like that. But, like, the ones that we're saying online have been good sports, and it's kinda become a meme.
Dax:Because if The bags themselves have been fine. It's just the box just gets
Adam:The ones that showed up. Except for the ones where the bag really fell out of the box. I can't believe that happened multiple times. Like, what the world? You know those people had to feel bad emailing us.
Adam:Like, are they gonna believe that there's literally no coffee in this box?
Dax:I am shocked that when I order things online, which I do all the time, that, like, this never happens. Like, you know, it's all
Adam:I've never had a box show up looking like that. And then when we send some boxes, it's like suddenly, this is a very common problem.
Dax:I guess everyone just goes through this loop and and figures it out.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. I think the the boxes don't even have that, like is it corrugated? Is that the word? Like, I noticed these boxes are just like a
Dax:It's like
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The little, like, bumpy, wavy thing.
Dax:Yeah. It does have they're pretty light. It's just very thin.
Adam:Very thin.
Dax:I got I got I see. I got I got one of them.
Adam:Now, look at you. Like, one
Dax:of them right now.
Adam:Oh, this one was small boxes.
Dax:Yeah. I know.
Adam:Collector's item. No one no one got one.
Dax:We should just ship we should just ship empty boxes to everyone as a joke.
Adam:I think the best part about this business is just the number of ideas. Like, when you get this many people together, and especially memeers, like, you guys are all Internet memers, so you just you keep having different ideas that just crack me up. And, like, our Discord all day is just hilarious ideas.
Dax:Yeah.
Adam:But we won't do half of them, but, like, just a lot of fun.
Dax:But seriously, though, we should print a sticker that that that just says, LOL, and put it in this box. And then just and then just ship it to, like, 20 people of our existing customers.
Adam:We have their addresses. They can't stop us from shipping things to them.
Dax:It's funny.
Adam:Oh, man. Good times. On that note, we got we got exciting stuff coming. I can't wait. It's like, it's this period of, like, we got a lot of hard work to do again before we can, like, give people things and to be excited about.
Adam:So it sucks that there's gonna be, like, a period of
Dax:Delay.
Adam:Relative quiet. Yeah. A delay. But, like, we're getting set up in a way that I'm very excited. That's gonna be much better.
Dax:It's gonna be so good. It's gonna be so good.
Adam:It's gonna be so good. If you're into coffee and ordering from SSH apps, which if you're into those things, it's only because we invented it. But if you're one of those people, just wait. It's gonna get better.
Dax:I'm excited.
Adam:Me too. On that note, it's been an hour. We did it. Yeah. We made it.
Adam:Oh, if we end it in 6 seconds, it'll be exactly 1 hour. Do you wanna try? 4, 3, 2. Bye, Adam. Do you have any more to say?
Dax:Yeah.
Adam:But bye. Bye.
