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Part 2 With Ken Wheeler - AI Farming, Adam Feels Nothing, and Dax Has Terrible Internet

/ 01:24:32/E83
Adam:

Not it's not because you joined Ken. I was just I didn't want it recorded. No. No.

Ken:

It's cool. Let's see how that goes.

Dax:

The shit that was wrong on my Internet, like, the because I just moved, and I didn't notice, but the Internet guy swapped out my modem. He, like, just swapped it for no reason

Ken:

Mhmm.

Dax:

Which was fine, but then it turns out there's 4 ports on the back, and only one of them technically work. It's like, what the why would the fuck am I close to know that? Do you remember? But yeah. We used to live in a time where all the ports used to work, but now,

Ken:

you know Why don't the ports work?

Dax:

It's weird. It's like I tried each one, and I got flaky, like, service, but then one worked. And the one that that one that worked is, like, mapped a little bit differently.

Ken:

Modems and Internet are fucking bullshit, to be honest with you. Like, I I, like, go talk to the, like, Verizon. Right? And I'm like, the that that was, like, who did my shit. And I'm like, oh, well, you know, I had problems with the other company.

Ken:

I'm like, can you guarantee that this will be fast? Right? And they're like, they're like, yeah. Right? So then it's slow.

Ken:

So I call them up. I'm like, what the fuck? Mhmm. And they were like, oh, well, you know, doesn't count for for Wi Fi connections. And then then, like, I'm like, okay.

Ken:

But, like, it's like like, one of them is hardwired, and it's still fucking slow. And they're like, oh, well, well, we'll we'll schedule something. Some guy will come take a look at it. And long story short, I got so pissed off that I ended up getting business Internet. Oh, really?

Ken:

I literally have business Internet at my house right now, and it still fucking sucks. But it's like it's like, if it's gonna suck, I'll get I can, like, get, like, a statement credit or something. So I I feel like there's incentive on them to make it not suck. Right? They have, like, an uptime fucking incentive.

Dax:

You got SLAs on your on your home Internet.

Ken:

But it's also a pain in the ass because, like, I can't like, I have it bundled, so I can't use, like, the Fios TV app. I have to use, like, the Verizon business app, and that doesn't, like Oh. My dog would chew my controller. You know, Shane, I have

Dax:

no remotes. I've got no remotes at all.

Ken:

I have to do everything. Remote doesn't work.

Dax:

Yeah. Oh, it doesn't.

Ken:

I got it.

Dax:

So it's bad.

Ken:

Remote doesn't work with the business Internet. What a time to be alive.

Dax:

It's it's wild because these these companies run the Internet, like, the most one of the most important things in the world. And I was going to their site yesterday to, like, change my plan. And I kid you not, it's like every page is like a minute of spinners and bouncing between, like, random ass subdomains. And, like, how did this company run, like, k Internet to, like, every single house in America, but then, like, this bullshit? They use RFCs?

Dax:

I'm just kidding.

Ken:

They're they're using JSP is what

Dax:

they're using. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. This is so slow.

Dax:

Like, it I just it's painful, and I can't believe this is the same company.

Ken:

I feel like a lot of that is, like, back end refusing to cooperate. Right? Like, the the front end guys are, like, hey, let me, you know, let me get what I need to build this website. Like, here's a general purpose API. Fucking run a proxy through it and take out what you need.

Ken:

You're like, oh, okay. Thanks.

Dax:

It's like you can see the whole history of all their technical debt through, like, all the redirects. It, like, starts to load one front end then realizes, like, you're in a specific part of of the thing then, like, flips to a different front end and then, like, that has a spinner and then, like, hits some other back end that sends you back. It's fucking insane.

Ken:

Have you guys ever worked on shit like that?

Dax:

Yeah. Like like, once.

Adam:

Yeah. What? Like, what's the classification here?

Ken:

Of, like, large

Dax:

Old shit. Yeah. Old shit?

Adam:

Yeah. Not like a website, but I've worked on some old stuff in finance.

Ken:

I've worked on some large, old shit way back in the day. And everything was, like, still Java and shit, and it was, like, it was devastating.

Adam:

Yeah. I've got, we had all kinds of weird stuff. The it was like, the original engineer created his own kinda like serialization approach, and it was like, instead of JSON, it was just like pipe delimited values in a big string. I can't remember what they were called. There was a name for them, and they were just like the bane of everyone's existence because there'd be these weird situations where something didn't serialize well.

Adam:

It's because this stupid format that was supposed to be, like, really terse and fast.

Dax:

Wasn't this literally, like wasn't Prime, like wasn't there some joke about this exact concept? Like, some guy invented something, but, like, you actually lived it?

Adam:

Oh, I hadn't heard the prime joke. I mean, I get, like, JSON has its downsides, but, like, trying to work with somebody's proprietary, I don't know, mangled up string was a nightmare.

Ken:

JSON is pretty fucking awesome, in my opinion.

Adam:

Yeah. I mean, the stuff we work on, it doesn't matter. I I think it's, like, if you're, like, doing high frequency trading or something, then.

Ken:

I can't comment on that.

Adam:

Not so much. Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. I mean, it works and it's readable. I have no complaints, really. And it's, I know it's, like, technically a performance thing, but, like, that shit is still so fast now because everything every parser is, like, crazy optimized for in every language.

Adam:

There's, like, fast for, like, normal people. Like, if you work at the level that I work at, which is, like, websites and, like, stuff that users use, then, like, what is fast? But if you're I guess if you're doing, like, systems level stuff, then you're like, man, JSON parsing is so slow. And that's, I guess, where prime lives.

Ken:

I mean, JSON parsing is fucking slow, generally speaking. Right? Like, I had, like, some JSON stringify in a hot path that was getting like way too big of a JSON object. And it was like noticeably slow even for websites. So I could see, like, I was looking into like DevOps shit.

Ken:

And I'm looking into like, it's like logging shit. Like aggregation and like sorting in real time, and shit like that. And I'm like, you know, I I get why they need that kind of speed or special formats for that kind of thing. Like, if you're gonna like, have, like, real time analytics or something, you're searching on it. Like like, how the fuck do you search, like, millions of records that fast?

Ken:

Not with not with JSON.

Adam:

I saw you tweeting about DevOps, a call to some DevOps nerds to help you.

Ken:

Yeah. And then

Adam:

we got on a call, and me and Dax are kind of DevOps nerds.

Ken:

Are you guys DevOps nerds? I hate

Adam:

the I hate the word DevOps. I don't know.

Dax:

I don't think it

Ken:

just means

Adam:

what I

Ken:

do. No.

Dax:

I literally figure out how to deploy all these shitty ass front end frameworks. That's basically what I do. Yeah.

Ken:

But you, like, write the code to do that though. Right? That's like your your thing. You're building a platform.

Dax:

Well, it's more like I figure out given what infrastructure we have, AWS, Cloudflare, etcetera. How do we, like, use them effectively to do various things for people that don't know about those things?

Ken:

Pipe it into Gigapanther?

Adam:

That show is funny.

Ken:

It's so funny because, like, you know, like, I get I get, like, make fun of that, but, like, front end has the exact same shit.

Dax:

Yeah. It's true.

Ken:

I feel like whatever happened in DevOps is, like, the exact same thing that happened in front end where everybody just dorked out a little too hard, and now there's, like, all these, like, fucking bespoke, polishing, crazily named things.

Dax:

Yeah. There's, like, a million layers between everything. That's just what always happens in every industry. I feel like everything that I worked in started off simple and now just has, like, a 100 steps in between.

Adam:

I was thinking about this morning how I don't actually understand, like, bundlers. Like, I know that Astro uses Vite and Rollup, and I don't know which one does what.

Dax:

That that's a great one. That's actually a great example.

Adam:

Like, I have no idea what each of them does.

Dax:

Astro is a framework, but they don't they're built on top of Vite, which is kind of another framework. It doesn't actually do any of the bundling. It uses ES build, but only in dev. But then when you're in production, then it uses roll up.

Adam:

Oh my god. I hate it so much.

Dax:

Yeah. And now they're trying to fix both of those with the new thing called roll down. It's just like I

Adam:

saw that. Yeah.

Ken:

So do you know what they do you know what they actually do?

Dax:

What? In terms of what?

Ken:

Oh, it's fucking gross.

Adam:

Bundlers do?

Ken:

Yeah.

Adam:

I mean, kind of. Like, I know they end up, like, taking all my stuff and putting it on the website, like, turning it into

Ken:

Do you know do you know what an Iffy is? A what?

Dax:

Yeah. Immediately executing function or whatever.

Adam:

Oh, like, where it's wrapped in parens and then you, like, execute it.

Ken:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That thing. Yeah.

Ken:

So that's what a bundler does.

Adam:

It fills it.

Ken:

It fills up like a like a dependency graph. Right? And then it'll go and kinda like resolve that into, like like, the the webpack output is just a bunch of iffy's with, like, depth injection. If you ever roll your own depth injection, like, if you have to do some weird ass, like, a valve bullshit, you're like, oh, okay. That's what's going on here.

Adam:

I'm sure Dax has done stuff like that. You seem smart, Dax.

Dax:

If you look yeah. Because we we use ES build, like, a ton, which is ES build's amazing. I love it. I think a lot of the work that we do would not be possible if not for ESBuild and how fast it is. But if you look at the output of it, which we do a lot because of debugging, it's really crazy some of the stuff it does.

Dax:

There's like so many little micro optimizations you can do when you're like, when you have a 100 files and you pack them into a single file. But a lot of times those optimizations don't work. So if in your 100 files you're importing the same module, it should be smart enough to, like, lift that up to the top and, like, import it once and then, like, you know, everything in reference that variable. But sometimes it can't figure that out because JavaScript is weird and you end up with, like, let's say you're importing AWS SDK, you get, like, AWS SDK 1, AWS SDK 2, AWS SDK 3, and they'll be, like, 9 definitions of the same variable. It's, yeah, it's wild.

Dax:

But it does do some cool optimizations.

Ken:

I

Adam:

literally had this issue yesterday, Dax, where I had 2 different, SDK, like, v 3 packages. So it was like Oh, yeah. Translate and bedrock or something. And they were different versions that relied on a different Oh, yeah. Subpackage, like a little util package.

Adam:

And there was a different version. So then at runtime, it was trying to use 2 different it it blew up. It was just so annoying to, like, have to Google that stuff and figure out what what's going on.

Ken:

Do you guys think tree shaking will ever work?

Dax:

We rely on a lot. Like, we we bundle our stuff in a way that's meant to be tree shaken but it takes a lot of effort from us to not accidentally introduce something that that stops it. But we use ESBuild, which isn't like the best tree shaker in the world, so I assume that when people are using roll up and stuff, it's maybe better. Shaken farther. Oh, it can always get shaken farther.

Dax:

Yeah. Further.

Adam:

Like the coconut trees in Dax's backyard.

Ken:

You have coconut trees?

Dax:

No. I don't, actually, but I want them. Okay. Here's a Wait.

Adam:

Wait. Wait.

Ken:

You you moved. Do you still have you do do you not have mangoes anymore?

Dax:

So I moved next door.

Ken:

So you still have mangoes next door?

Dax:

One house over. No. So we don't have any fruit trees or anything in this new house, but we're gonna plant some. And I think the first thing we're gonna plant is a mango tree, and they take, like, 2 or 3 years. Did you hit a certain age and you just fucking love trees?

Dax:

It's just what happens.

Ken:

Specifically, fruit trees. So have have you looked at fastgrowingtrees.com?

Adam:

Yes. I've ordered 1,000 of dollars worth of trees from fastgrowingtrees.com.

Ken:

And how did it go?

Adam:

You know, most of them are doing okay. Cherry trees, for some reason, the deer just love cherry trees in the Ozarks, and they've, like

Ken:

Is that so?

Adam:

Both of them to the death. Yeah. They just literally stomped them to the ground.

Dax:

Have Ken I

Ken:

don't know.

Dax:

Have Ken stay

Ken:

with you for a week. Yeah.

Adam:

But, like, I've got 3 apple trees that are all doing pretty good. We got an apple last year. First apple. 1st They they grow pretty fast. No.

Adam:

It was the 2nd year we've had them.

Ken:

2nd year you got one apple?

Adam:

Yeah. Out of 3 trees.

Ken:

What zone are you in?

Adam:

I have no idea. I knew at the time. I think 6? I knew when I was ordering them because it has the charts. 6 or 7?

Ken:

I think I'm in 7. And I've been looking at, like, what like, like, New Jersey is is incredibly fertile in many ways. But And should be right. But as far as the

Adam:

the lean into the mic.

Ken:

As far as, like, temperature is concerned. Right? Like, you're living like, I can't get like, I can't have, like, fucking bananas. Right? So, I think peaches do really well here.

Adam:

I've got a couple of Alberto peach trees.

Ken:

As well as apples. So, yeah, I think I think I'm gonna take the tree pill, and, I have this whole section of my backyard. I don't have any trees in my backyard.

Dax:

Yeah. Oh, really?

Ken:

It's like an acre with no fucking trees at all.

Dax:

Can everyone just, like, see into your yard? Like, how's that work?

Ken:

It's surrounded by trees.

Dax:

Oh, I see.

Ken:

But, like, the actual yard itself, there's no trees at all.

Adam:

You got all kinds of room to plant all the fruit trees, and they all have to have, like, a buddy that, like, helps to pollinate them and all that. Like, that there's all these different rules. Yeah.

Ken:

So I was gonna put some templates. Those in the in the back corner. Yeah. Just some fruit trees. I got so the what led me to that, right, is, I got scared about AI and started farm shopping.

Ken:

So I start I started looking. Right? So I start looking and fucking, like, you know, I'm looking at some of these farms. I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah.

Ken:

You know, that's that's okay. That's a little out of the way. And I found this one, and it was a fucking apple orchard.

Dax:

It was an apple orchard

Ken:

for a $1,000,000. Right? Wow. And I was like, I could, like, have, like, my wife start the business, like, get, like, some, like, women in farming grants from the government. Fucking.

Ken:

So kind of shit like that. Right? And, you know, it it was like it was like this huge thing of all these, like, app rows and rows of apple a fucking orchard. Right? And it had, like, a building, like, processing and shit.

Ken:

Like, you're in there and you see, like like, the boxes with the cheesy clip art apples on it and shit. And I'm like, oh, shit. And then I was, like, you know what? I don't know the first fucking thing about fruit trees at all. I was, like, so, you know, it'd be, like, a really good way for me to, like, buy an apple orchard and drive it directly into the fucking ground.

Ken:

I was like, so I was like, so, you know what? Maybe, like, maybe we can just, like, dip our toes in.

Dax:

Yeah. Just a few trees. Yeah.

Ken:

Two trees in the yard. See how it goes.

Dax:

Scale slowly. Yeah. That's, it's crazy because so Liz's parents, so they have a backyard. Backyards in Miami aren't aren't huge. It's like a, you know, big city.

Dax:

And they have a pool in it, and it's mostly, like, tiled over the backyard, but right around the edges they have, like, every fruit tree possible and they all work out amazingly every year, like mangoes, papayas, oranges, guavas, like, just everything. It's unbelievable. It just works. Like, they just put it there, and it just works. So I feel like maybe it's a climate or the type of trees, whatever.

Dax:

They do so well here. You just don't really have to try super hard.

Ken:

Do you ever find yourself with too many mangoes?

Dax:

Yeah. It's a huge problem. Mangosese is about to start. Ready? So

Adam:

Huge problem.

Dax:

You go from like, everyone has a mango tree in your in their backyard, and they produce, like, 1 to 200 mangoes in the span of a month.

Ken:

That's a lot of fucking mangoes.

Adam:

It's a lot of mangoes.

Dax:

And everyone is, like, trying to, like everyone, like, is, like, bringing them over to someone else's house. And they're like, we have too many mangoes, and, like, you try to bring them to, like, the ice cream store so they can make mango ice cream. And then and literally last year, there were literally signs on stores being, like, not accepting mangoes. It just becomes a whole huge problem. Yeah.

Dax:

What what his dad does is he makes marmalade out of it, such a such a giant bucket of marmalade.

Ken:

Yeah. No. Secondary products make a lot of sense.

Dax:

And that and that that can keep for a while. So, yeah, it's Can

Ken:

you make wine out of it?

Dax:

Mango wine. I don't, I don't know. I guess you can. You could juice a mango, right?

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah?

Ken:

I made mango wine in Stardew Valley before.

Dax:

That sells for a lot.

Ken:

I know that. Yeah, it

Dax:

really does. And Stardew Valley.

Ken:

Do you like the mango, like on a stick with the, with the chili dust on it

Dax:

for sure? Yeah. The Mexican that's Mexican style. That's so

Ken:

fucking good, dude. I, I forget where I was, but somewhere like, like, on, like, the back of, like, a moving truck, and this dude's, like like, hacking into it with a machete, and it looks like a flower.

Dax:

Oh, flower. Yeah. That's amazing. It was awesome. So yeah.

Dax:

So it's kind of such that I love mangoes, and I eat them all year round, but you just get way too many for a month.

Ken:

Can you cut them into chunks and freeze them?

Dax:

Yeah. People do that. Yeah. People do that. But, like I said, there's so many trees here.

Dax:

You can literally walk around and just grab them off of

Ken:

Do people do that?

Dax:

That's totally totally normal because there's just way too many. The neighborhood I live in, it's and you guys will see when you when you come visit, it's, like, crazy dense with trees. Like, you can't see the houses, like, there's trees all around the street and it's, like, a big canopy. It's like a little jungle. And a lot of them are fruit trees, and they just, like, drop fruit on the ground all year round.

Ken:

Now is there rotten fruit everywhere? Not really. Animals get to it?

Dax:

There's a lot of cats. I don't know if the cats eat the fruit, but I don't know. It's not a problem. But, yeah, you can just grab stuff off a tree, and you can eat it on your walk.

Ken:

So I'm curious. Right? Like like, if you introduce that much mango into your diet, do people have health problems from from that much mango?

Dax:

Well, mangoes are the only thing in nature that has both fat and sugar. It's like a fucking dessert, like a human made mangoes are really fatty. Yeah. Not like that.

Ken:

Not like really. Not like like calories. Like, people are like, oh, I got all fucking mango fat last season. Like, like, there's there's some fruit that, like, you're not like, if you eat, like, 6 of them or something, it's a big problem.

Dax:

No. Mangoes are yeah. So I used to have that, thing that tracks your blood sugar. I like that patch thing. I wore it for, like, 2 months just to see.

Dax:

So I would, like, eat things and then look to see what it was because it was real time. I had ice cream, candy, all kinds of stuff. Nothing spiked my blood sugar like a mango. Like, nothing.

Adam:

Really?

Dax:

It tapers off pretty quickly, but the highest I'd ever gotten was after eating eating a mango, so there's a reason why it's so delicious.

Adam:

They're super good.

Ken:

You know what? Yeah. I'll never forgive the United States government for fucking taking away mango jewel pods.

Dax:

That was, like Wait. Specifically, mango?

Ken:

Specifically oh, I don't know. I I I so, like, I guess the lineup was it was, like, tobacco, and then they had, like, they had this one that was, like, raspberry, and that shit sucked. Mhmm. And then there was, like, 2 different menthols, and they got rid of the better one. They got rid of mint, and they left menthol.

Ken:

Mint was better. And I feel like there was, like, 1 or 2 you know what? I that's that's a sidebar, but, Mango was, like, the premier one. Mango was the shit. You had Mango, White Claws, and a Mango Jewel pod, and you were in a hot tub 5 years ago, you were living the fucking dream.

Ken:

It was unreal. So I came to find out that we had, like, our mango lineup. It was, like, it was, like, the White Claw flavors, like, the seasons. Right? So we had, like, our our our lineup.

Ken:

Right? And then, I I was over in England, and you go there, and they had completely different flavors.

Adam:

Oh, really?

Dax:

Yeah. Like, flavors that we don't have here?

Ken:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I forget what it was. It was, like, fucking, like, kiwi or leechi or some shit.

Ken:

But they had, like, a totally different flavor set. And, what was whack is that, like, by law, they were lower nicotine. Interesting. So they picked it up, but it was kinda weak sauce. Mango.

Ken:

Mango Jewel pods.

Dax:

We lost something with them.

Ken:

I'm telling you. And then for for a while, that was actually funny. I'd get them, like, you like, the guys at, like, the gas stations. Not, like, legitimate gas stations, but, like, you know, the gas stations where you can, like, buy a bowl and shit. Like like, you know what I'm talking about.

Dax:

Yeah. That's how they make all their money. I was saying this the other day. They don't make money off the gas.

Ken:

Yeah. No. No. They make it off selling fucking dick pills. But I digress.

Ken:

I go in there. Right? And they they would be like, hey, buddy. I have the mango. And I'm like, what?

Ken:

Like, you have fucking mango? Right? And, it would be like, you'd look at it, and it would be like the the writing was in Russian or something. They would, like, import mango internationally or it wasn't a problem.

Dax:

Black market mango jewel pods.

Ken:

So I'm at, React Summit in, Jersey City, right, a couple months ago. And I'm all fucked up. We, like, just left, like, the barricade or some shit. Right? I'm like, ah, barricade.

Ken:

I'm like, I'm pretty much. So, like, across the street, there's like some, like, you know, community store kind of thing. Right? I'm like, ah, I need fucking more vape shit. So I gotta go in there And, I'm like asking for Jewel pods, and the guy's like, you want mango?

Ken:

And I'm like, no. No. I'm just freaked the fuck out. I bought, like, 2 packs of them. I'm like, sick, dude.

Ken:

Oh, it's a I'm, like, so pumped. I get back to the hotel room, and I, like, pop it open. Right? And this shit is just, like, like, when it's, like, regular. Right?

Ken:

Like, the the vape juice in there is, like, basically clear. This shit is, like, brown. Like, these things are obviously, like, a decade old. I'm like, I can't even start this.

Dax:

Oh, so you think they should have don't make them anymore because they're a band?

Ken:

Yeah. It's like it's like the Quaaludes in Wolf of Wall Street.

Dax:

Oh, yeah.

Ken:

That's, like, what's floating around out there right now.

Adam:

I feel like I've never seen Wolf of Wall Street, and I feel like I missed so many references because of it. People reference that movie constantly.

Ken:

I've never seen Wolf of

Dax:

Wall Street. It's an amazing movie.

Ken:

Really?

Dax:

So good. I've seen it so much. Did you watch Dunkirk?

Ken:

Did you

Dax:

end up watching Dunkirk?

Adam:

I did watch Dunkirk.

Ken:

That was good. You know?

Adam:

It was good. I don't know what I was expecting. It didn't I don't know. It didn't it wasn't what I expected.

Ken:

It was good.

Adam:

It was, like, visually and, like, the sound was great. Like, that part of it was cool. But something about, like, the story, I don't know. I I felt like underwhelmed.

Ken:

It's not

Dax:

really a story. It's basically 2 hours of tension.

Adam:

Yeah. It's yeah. 2 hours of tension. I felt underwhelmed, and then I found, like, a rewatchables episode, you know, like, the the podcast that talks about movies. And Quentin Tarantino's on there, and he chose he wanted them to talk about Dunkirk.

Adam:

And then I'm like, oh, this must be I'm just dumb. Like, I don't understand. Because if he wants to talk about this movie, it must be amazing. Like, he knows stuff about movies. What do I know?

Ken:

Yeah. I I think He does.

Dax:

The thing with it is there's, like, you know, there's war movies. We've seen a bunch of war movies, and Christopher Nolan's gonna do a war movie. So he's gotta do his, like, weird take on it because he always does something a little bit different. So what was interesting with that was a whole, like, timeline thing where, like

Adam:

Yeah. The cutting around.

Dax:

Like, the I also saw that movie A 100 Percent Tripping on Acid in theaters.

Adam:

That would probably Oh, wow. I would imagine I would have

Dax:

been doing it well. No. It just made it way more I I loved it.

Ken:

I thought

Dax:

it was amazing, and I, like, loved the experience. But I've read, like, way too deep into the story. I thought it was, like, way more complex than it actually was. And I was, like, trying to figure out, like I thought there was some, like, time travel shit going on, and and there wasn't. It's just pretty straightforward.

Adam:

I don't know that I fully I only watched it the one time. I don't know if I fully got all the cutting around, like, if if I really understood the timeline.

Dax:

It's like clever ordering with, like, the pilot's experience is only, like, 2 hours, and the people on the boat have, like, a 2 day experience. Then people on the

Adam:

beach have, like,

Dax:

a 1 year 1 week experience. But, dude, when the when the boats come through the fog and the music starts playing

Adam:

Oh, yeah. That was cool. There were some moments, for sure.

Dax:

Oh, yeah. That was cool.

Adam:

Do you feel anything ever? I don't think I have emotions. Yeah. No. I don't think I do.

Ken:

Really?

Adam:

It's a problem. I'm pretty emotionally, shallow.

Ken:

You don't get It's not pissed off?

Adam:

No. I do get some, like, ragey, like, quick reaction, but then I'm fine. Like, I have a very, like, bursty rage.

Ken:

Do do you get, like, super pumped about shit?

Dax:

Like He gets manic.

Adam:

I do get manic. It's it's not funny.

Ken:

But you're never like, oh, fucking sick. Like

Adam:

not really. No.

Ken:

Though?

Adam:

I mean, I used to play high school sports. I mean, even then, I was like I was pretty good at sports, but I didn't really like

Dax:

I was like, awesome. We won.

Ken:

Do game 1.

Adam:

I mean, the people around me were very like, you know, like that. And I'm just kinda like, I don't know. I'm like this.

Dax:

The best part about sports, you know, when your adrenaline's going and you're just, like, a 100% down to murder the other team. You never felt that.

Adam:

I think I get adrenaline. I just don't express it emotionally, if that makes sense.

Ken:

You don't talk like impulsive sports shit?

Adam:

Mm-mm. Yeah.

Ken:

Yeah. You just sit there all fight. You're like, whose house is this? It's like you're playing children in tennis right now.

Adam:

I think I see I just I'm internal. It's all internal for me.

Ken:

What's going on in there?

Adam:

I don't know.

Ken:

Are you thinking?

Adam:

Sometimes no. I tell I tell my wife there's really nothing. There's not more to me. Like, there's not depth that you're missing out on. I just don't have.

Ken:

You guys have internal monologue. Right?

Adam:

I think so.

Ken:

Yeah. Okay. Good.

Adam:

Like, you hear words. Like, you actually hear

Ken:

Yeah. Yeah.

Adam:

I don't know if I hear words. Maybe that's what it is.

Ken:

What is this shit,

Dax:

man? Like, people not

Ken:

Yeah. Like, they say, like, they don't. Like, I'll sit there, like, walk into somewhere and, like, in my head, I'll be like, look at this motherfucker. Yeah.

Dax:

I play a whole fantasy in my, like just I, like, play all these scenarios of, like, getting into fights with random people that I But people don't. Argue with them. I don't understand. And they say people don't, like, visualize things.

Adam:

There's my wife can't see things. Like, she can't visualize understand, like

Dax:

at all. How about make sure

Adam:

a red egg

Dax:

she can't do it. Visualize stuff in your head?

Adam:

Yeah. I can visualize for sure.

Dax:

Okay. There's people okay. So I I was talking to someone today, and I was like, okay. If I ask you what you had for dinner yesterday, do you not, like, imagine the visual of it in your head? And they're like, no.

Dax:

I just remember. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? How is that how is that possible?

Ken:

I think they're fucking pulling our legs, to be honest with you.

Adam:

I don't

Ken:

I don't understand how that's possible. Yeah.

Dax:

Like, how do you how do you, like, remember where anything is? How do you, like it just doesn't make any sense at all. They said, don't disclose

Ken:

describe anything. Right? Like Yeah. You know, if I was gonna describe, like, a hypothetical situation, like, I'm looking at it in my head.

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Adam:

I mean, there's a name for it and everything. My wife has this. I don't remember what it's called.

Ken:

It's actually really funny. Like, like, my most creative and my most, like, capable is when I'm making fun of something.

Dax:

I definitely relate to that.

Ken:

Yeah. I

Adam:

don't know.

Ken:

I hear what movie it was, but, like, like, I think it was, like, Channing Tatum, like, went to go, like, like, make fun of somebody dancing and, like, danced really well. Right? And people, like, what the fuck did you learn to dance like that?

Dax:

That was a was that a jump street?

Ken:

It might have been.

Dax:

Maybe. It's like, wait.

Ken:

So you got good at dancing for making fun of people too?

Dax:

That shit happens all the time. You start doing something ironically, and then you just start doing it normally, and then there's no difference. Happens all the time.

Ken:

Like, start, like, playing the piano and, like, singing a song to, like, make fun of somebody, it's, like, a 1000000000 times better than if I'm, like, trying to be serious about it.

Dax:

Man, I totally get that. That's why I want everyone to be more into that. But, you know I

Ken:

don't know. Growing up, like, we fucked with each other all day long.

Dax:

Yeah. That's all we did.

Ken:

All day long. And, like, now, like, we're, like, woah, man, chill. Come on. I'm kind of

Dax:

Let's say, how am I supposed to get close to you if I can't do that? Just doesn't it just doesn't work for me in my head. But, again, I think this might be, like, a northeast thing because a lot of people don't get

Adam:

this settled. West thing for sure. Not a good idea.

Ken:

It is a northeast thing. But you get, like, a lot of, like, wit and vocabulary and, like, fucking, like if you're not firing back, then

Adam:

Yeah. I appreciate it. Like, if I enjoy being around you guys, and I enjoy hearing you guys do it to other people. I just I can't I can't come up with it. I'm not that witty.

Dax:

What do you do when you hang out with someone that you're, like, close with? Someone you grew up

Adam:

with that you're I I don't. I mean, I don't

Dax:

hang out. Enbridgement.

Ken:

This is

Adam:

this is like Do

Ken:

you do you see them and you're like, hey. It's really nice to see you.

Adam:

I mean, yes. That is what a Midwesterner would do. Not something you're really close to.

Ken:

See, like, 2 northeast people, like, 2 northeast people, if you see them not see each other for a while and then and then come into contact, like, the first thing that you say, I'm like, what's up, bitch? And then, oh, pussy. The first thing you do is just start fucking coming at each other. Yeah.

Dax:

That's basically what I did on this call. I I showed up, and I started making fun of your hair.

Ken:

That's a feeling you did. Look at the hair on this. That's all. Yeah.

Dax:

Man. Yeah. But, you know, everyone's zipping.

Adam:

I wanna hear more of what Ken thinks about about AI. Do like, what is your AI take? I feel like I've probably seen it on Twitter, but I don't remember.

Ken:

Like, is

Adam:

it coming for a job, or do you not think so?

Ken:

Oh, man. You know what, dude? It's like there's so much bullshit out there right now that it's actually really hard to separate the fucking Yeah. The fact from fiction. Right?

Ken:

Like, a lot of reputable sources have a lot of things to say, but it's, like, in their own interest to do so. Like, the hype benefits them. Right? So it's, like, you know, maybe they're not being completely honest about this or that. So, like, I don't know.

Ken:

I see it, like, a lot of the same bullshit with AI that I did with crypto. Mhmm. It's Like,

Adam:

the same crowd jumped on it. It's unfortunate.

Ken:

Yeah. So it's really hard to see through that whole grift crowd thing. Now fundamentally, right, it's cool, I guess.

Adam:

Do you use it? Like, do you use chat gbt or anything else?

Ken:

Yeah. I'll use it to translate, like, code from one language to another. That's that's that's a good big thing, but like, I don't know. They they're like, oh, generate this picture. Right.

Ken:

And like, yeah. Sure. It's like it's like a crocodile on roller blades. Right? But, like, what do you actually do with that?

Ken:

Yeah. Nobody ever fucking takes a shit and does anything with it.

Dax:

Yeah. It no. It's crazy because do you remember when it first came out? It was, like, really cool. And now you can spot that shit from a mile away, and it looks bad.

Dax:

Like, every AI generated image just we, like, immediately, like, got it in our head, and it just looks cliche now. So, yeah, you can't really do much with it.

Ken:

Like, the headshots, like, people get that. Right? And I'm like, are you really gonna use that as your fucking picture? Everybody knows everybody knows what it is.

Dax:

It just just looks so lame. Remember that one that, that gave you abs? I don't know if you saw that one. Yeah. Gave you, like, an 8 pack.

Dax:

What?

Ken:

It's awesome. It's awesome. I like the fit the FaceApp one where it, like, chats you out, like, enormously.

Dax:

Yeah. Good job. I like I like how it makes me look older. Like, I I do the old one, and I'm like, that's definitely what I'm gonna look like. I feel like that does a really good job.

Adam:

That one that was pretty realistic. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, like, I was not even thinking about any of this when I said AI. Like, I wasn't thinking about any of the generative, like, visual stuff.

Adam:

It's interesting this all happened at once. Like, that there's this peak moment where all this, like, image and media generation stuff, people were on music and video. It's all happening while the LLMs are doing all this text generation stuff. Is that coincidence? Is there some underlying thing?

Dax:

They're all they're all powered by the same thing. Yeah. They're all related.

Adam:

Is that the transformers architecture or something?

Ken:

It's it's all advances in in learning. Right? So you have, like, LLMs. Right? And that's, like, generating text.

Ken:

But then, like, you all, like, generating, like, music or fucking alligators and roller blades. That's like diffusion models. Right? There's, like, there's many different things that they have going on. What what frightens me, right, is is just the pace.

Ken:

And like the like, what could happen with the pace. Right? So like, I don't know. Like, if you look at, like, video and images, like, a year ago or 2 years ago, to, like, now, like, the pace of that is wild. So, like, right now, it's used for, like, like, dumb shit like that.

Ken:

Or right? You'll you'll, like, ask chat GPD something and, like, it'll sort of tell you the right answer Mhmm. Some of the time. But, like, have a thought experiment. Right?

Ken:

Like, extrapolate that out a little bit. Right? Like like, what if it does, like, double consistently or quadruple consistently? What if it does get, like, really, really smart? What if it can do your job?

Ken:

What if it can do everyone's job?

Dax:

Then what?

Adam:

Well, Dax and I have talked about this openly. I mean, on the podcast.

Ken:

Right? Like a lot of people a lot of people think it's gonna be like this, like, fucking, like, like, they think, like, oh, well, if, if AI takes all the jobs, right, then, oh, well then the government will just give us money to fucking lay around and play the flute. Motherfucker. No. They won't.

Ken:

No. They won't. And like, you know, they they say we, right? Like like it's a fucking team sport. And, you know, they're like, they're like rooting for the Giants.

Ken:

But no, there is no fucking we. Right? The the the best AI is gonna be built by the people who have the money to to train the models. Right? So this is wholly owned by the companies, and the government doesn't have shit to do with it.

Ken:

So, you know Yeah. I I like, if you the people are like, oh, yeah. Well, fucking, you're gonna have to adapt. Adapt, motherfucker. Like, and I always say, like, farming.

Ken:

Right? Like, farming is a big example. Like, how many farmers are there? Well, if you actually look at the chart, right, from, like, 1700 to now, it goes from, like, 99% to 4%. Yeah.

Ken:

Yeah. We shifted away from from agricultural economy, but it took 200 fucking years.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ken:

Right? Like like, 200 years of other shit cropping up. Right?

Adam:

Yeah. This is happening much faster.

Ken:

Yeah. So if it happens in, like, 5 years, then what?

Adam:

Yeah. What then what? I don't know. Because I I I just think about my own job mostly because I'm selfish. But I don't consider, like, the broader impact of, like, if all knowledge workers are useless because AI is better than them, what does that mean?

Adam:

I I have no idea. I already think, like, most people are just sitting around. I I I just assume, like, most of our economy is, like, 80% waste of time, people sitting in chairs. But, like, what happens when that hole just goes away?

Ken:

Economically speaking. Right? If if you took if you if you got rid of every white collar worker in America, right, like, what's the economic impact of that?

Dax:

Yeah. Like, our our our system doesn't work at all. Like, no part of

Adam:

it doesn't work. Work, and it does. Like, the companies that made these AI systems don't benefit from nobody being able to pay for them. So what is the answer? Who who somebody who somebody has the answer.

Adam:

Right? Somebody's

Ken:

looking out for this? What are you gonna adapt to? You gonna adapt to become a plumber? Who nobody has money to pay plumbers, and now you have a 100,000,000 new plumbers that just entered? Like Yeah.

Ken:

Yeah. Oh, that's gonna go awesome for plumbers.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah. What what is the answer? Like, is there a scenario where this does go so fast?

Dax:

I I think the reality is is the technology can move extremely quickly, and I believe it'll it will. And I think it's already very good and doesn't need to get that much better. There's just, like, a bunch of coordination problems to solve. So I believe that will happen pretty quick, but the physical world is extremely slow. Like, there's, like, a lot of tech that we're using, and we were just talking earlier about how old some of this shit is.

Dax:

Like, AI doesn't speed up a lot of those things. And there's gonna be a lot of opportunity for a while to, like, help figure out how to, like, get this stuff into these big legacy companies. Let's say there's, like, a company like, big CPG manufacturing companies, like, the fucking companies that make Oreos and, like, every other thing that we buy off the grocery shelves. That's, like, a real business. AI doesn't remove the need for people to produce or eat food.

Dax:

Theoretically, it could impact a lot of their operations and, like, make them more efficient and do all kinds of stuff. But imagine how slow doing any of this stuff is. Like, I like, some of these companies are, like, just moving to the cloud. You go try to work at these any of these companies, like, doing any micro thing is just like this massive pain in the ass. So I do think AI will be massively like, there's so many places where it's going to get into and shake things up, but I have a hard time imagining it'll be fast just because, like, the companies are so bureaucratic, and it doesn't really matter what the technology is.

Ken:

I think it's I think it's mostly rate and and, like, the the compounding unlock. Right? Like, so say, say for example, right? Like you, they, they achieve AGI. Right?

Ken:

Like you have a thing that's like smart, smarter than any person on earth. Right? Mhmm. And and you can run it pretty efficiently. Like, that thing will literally tell you how to build its robotic counterpart.

Ken:

That shits that shits, like, that shits up, like, number one thing that

Dax:

it will want is to be in the world. Yeah. Right? So

Ken:

it so it'll be a robot now. And now the robot can do everything you can do physically. So then what?

Dax:

Yeah. I mean, that is possible. I think that I'm skeptical that happens anytime soon. Because if that happens, that's, like, the whole compounding thing. Like, the moment you invent that, like, 5 years forward from that, like, I don't like, you're just in, like, an unimaginable form of the world.

Dax:

Like, we might be, like, harnessing the sun's energy, like, directly and shit like that. Like, I it's just I'm skeptical that's I would love to see that, and I don't care if I die in the process because it's fucking insane. But, yeah. I I have a hard time imagining that we're, like, on the cusp of that.

Ken:

I see 2 possible outcomes. Right? 1 is that fucking we're just so obsolete that it just kills us. And, like, the the new life form, right, is machine. Yeah.

Ken:

Right? And then you just have, like, a fucking dark planet worrying with fucking machines, and they're going out, pulling resources out of the solar system and shit. Yeah. And the other one is even more bleak. Right?

Ken:

Which is where, like, you set this shit up. Right? And it's like this, like, fucking space communism bullshit where, like, everyone's just sitting around without any purpose. Yeah. Right.

Ken:

But, like, you know, it like like, let's say there's no jobs or anything like that. And then they say, oh, we're gonna give everyone fucking what they need. Like like, they're not gonna give you more because you used to be a software engineer. They're gonna, you know, every single person will be

Dax:

on the same. Yeah.

Ken:

It's gonna be like an equitable thing. Right? Which will actually work out to not much because fucking that doesn't change resources.

Dax:

Unless we're in a simulation. They put us in simulation, then we they can do whatever they want.

Ken:

Dude, I'm telling you, if the if the simulation like, if you could hear what they're saying, it's probably the funniest shit. They're probably, look at this motherfucker. You know? I always thought it'd be cool. Right?

Ken:

If you could, like, if you could, like, create, like, simulations of of basically, like, all the entire Earth. Right? And like start a caveman and then just like hit play and then like 15 exit. Right.

Adam:

Yeah.

Ken:

And then just watch what they come up with. Right. Like I, I was like,

Dax:

dude, steal the idea.

Ken:

Yes, steal their technology. But then like, like also like like you gotta get hit with some funny shit once in a while like that. Like you're sitting there, you're like, dude, look at this shit that they came up with. Right? Like, come here.

Ken:

I'm gonna tell you this shit. Yeah.

Dax:

And sometimes, like, you see that they're so close to getting something, but they're, like, just missing it by, like, an inch, you know? I just wanna be put in a simulation myself. Like, put me in a simulation, like, give me, like, unlimited resource in there. I think I'll find an enjoyable life to live.

Ken:

So say say, like, they come out with San Junipero.

Dax:

Yeah, dude. Hell yeah.

Ken:

Where do

Dax:

you want that to be? Like, where? Oh, like Yeah. What's what's what's

Ken:

what's your what's your San Junipero?

Dax:

But, like, why why do I have to pick? Isn't it like there's no limits in there?

Ken:

I think they

Dax:

picked. Wait, but you're talking about, like, what, like, era of time?

Ken:

I guess they picked an era and maybe a location, but, yeah, you know, I do the Jersey Shore and

Dax:

I pre 911, I think.

Ken:

Yeah. I think 1997.

Dax:

Yeah. Pre 911.

Ken:

Drinking water out of the house.

Dax:

Everything was fucking fun. Yeah. Like, I would just leave the house in the morning. My parents just wouldn't know where the fuck I was, and I was, like, 8 years old and just out doing random shit and come back and

Ken:

Dollar Arizona's in skateboarding forever?

Dax:

Dude, Dollar Arizona's so good. Yeah. That's probably what I would do. That sounds really nice.

Ken:

That's right. Right? Yeah. That'll be the shit.

Adam:

How would they keep your like, you'd just be on, basically, like, a life support sis like, if there was a simulation and we were all just being like, there's something feeding our brain this everything we see. Like, what's happened to our physical body?

Ken:

Seems wasteful. They probably just jack you out and fucking containerize your fucking being. Put you in a Docker container? Yeah. I know.

Adam:

That would be the ultimate irony and twist of fate. We all have done docker containers.

Ken:

No, but seriously, if they could like, yeah,

Dax:

what was most efficient?

Ken:

If they could, like, build up, like, whatever, like, the the graph data structure of your fucking brain is, and then, like, plop. Right? Remove this from your body.

Dax:

What sucks though is then that's a copy, and that's, like, this whole philosophical thing. Like, is that actually gonna be me?

Adam:

I was gonna say, is that actually you? Is that your consciousness?

Ken:

What is consciousness? Transfer technology? I put fucking rectangles on a fucking web page. You know what? You know what?

Ken:

If if none

Dax:

of that happens, you know what my plan is? If I'm getting close to dying, I want them to freeze me and shoot me into space. Because if space is infinite, some fucking alien's gonna eventually find me, and maybe they'll have the the chance to bring me back to life. Maybe they have the technology. I'll just wake up, like, in a different planet and start a new life.

Adam:

Do you think that alien finds you in the infinity of space before you hit some object or something melts you and thaws you out, like you hit some sun

Dax:

or something? Pessimistic.

Adam:

I'm just saying, like, if it's an infinite vastness of space, the odds of hitting, like, a celestial body that we can see with our telescopes is probably a little higher than some alien civilization picking you up.

Ken:

Who gets

Dax:

rest of the looking for me?

Ken:

Probably. It's thawed out on the planet where all of the inhabitants are 6 foot tall, stacked blonde women.

Dax:

That's probably what's most likely gonna happen.

Ken:

Mhmm.

Dax:

Like, just scientifically speaking.

Ken:

For sure. Thought about, like, aliens, like like, it's probably, like, not what we think. Right? Like, we have, like, so many, like, biases around, like

Dax:

Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah.

Ken:

Like, humanoid form and shit like that. Like, there's probably any of those. Right? But they're, like, made out of, like, not carbon and

Dax:

Just, like, their moss. They're Yeah.

Ken:

You know Something weird.

Dax:

Imagine that they would just be extremely disgusting, like, the most disgusting thing you've ever seen. Like, you go look at anything from the deep sea just like it's gross as fuck.

Ken:

Yeah.

Dax:

And just anything that develops in a foreign environment, I feel like it's probably gonna be completely disgusting to us. Gross.

Ken:

It's like when you guys see people from New Jersey. You're like, what the fuck is that?

Dax:

So speaking of, kinda related, have you guys seen this new show, Shogun? No. No. Okay. So it's a it's an FX show.

Dax:

It's really good. We only see 2 episodes, but it seems really good. It takes place in, I think, like, the 1600 back when Japan was first kind of being discovered by the rest of the world, and it's, like, Portuguese traders are, like, starting to establish, contact with them. I think it's set up to be like a Game of Thrones type thing. It's not like it's not fantasy, but it's, like, really political and intricate.

Dax:

There's a lot of things going on. But I was like, man, the show was so weird. Like, these people were living in Japan, and then these other people just show up and they're like, who are you? And they're like, oh, we're from this other place called England. And it's just like meeting aliens at that point, like, completely different culture, completely different language, and this is just happening.

Dax:

Like, people were just showing up. And, like, we don't experience that anymore because we've discovered the whole world as far as we know. But, yeah, like, if you lived back then, like, there's there's there were these Portuguese people born in Portugal in 1600, took a ship to Japan, ended up learning Japanese, living there, like, spreading Catholicism, like, what a fucking, like, insane life. Like, it's it's basically visiting another planet at that point.

Ken:

Imagine being, like, English, like, 500 years ago.

Dax:

Like like, you just wake up,

Ken:

and you're like, like, I'm gonna get on this fucking boat and see how it goes. Like, you have no idea.

Dax:

That stuff is crazy. I can't believe people did that. Like, I always always think about the, like, the Samoans. You know, the shit that they did where they would, like, end up on an island, they would look at the waves, and they would be like, oh, yeah. The waves are kind of funny here.

Dax:

There's probably another island, like, in that direction. And they would just fucking get in a canoe and go. If they were wrong, you just die. Like, what is I can't believe people did that, and they went from island to island to island.

Ken:

Had to be pretty dire.

Adam:

It probably was. Like, life just probably wasn't that great. So, like Yeah. Might die, but it's at least there's a chance that it's gonna be better.

Ken:

And, like, can you imagine you get there? Like, I'll sit there. Like, I I I do this thing where, like, it'll be like 5 in the morning. Right. And I'm just like waiting to poop.

Ken:

I'm just like, I'm just sitting there And I'll, I'll, like, go on Wikipedia and I'll be like, I'll be like, so what's the deal with this? Right. And then they just, like, spend, like, 2 and a half hours. Right. And like, you find out like potatoes aren't from Ireland.

Ken:

Right. They're from like south America. Mhmm. Like, what the fuck? Like, there there's so many weird things, like the, like, the pre Colombian fucking origin of all these different things.

Ken:

Mhmm. But, like, can you imagine being, like, the first person to come over and be like, what the fuck is this? Right? And it's a it's like a banana

Adam:

all the time.

Ken:

You're like, this is unfucking real. Holy shit.

Dax:

Yeah. Just people are just discovering shit all the time.

Ken:

I mean, did you know

Dax:

the thing with the the spice, the chilies? This one blows my mind, I'm Indian. I think of my food as spicy. We love spicy food. Spicy food didn't exist pre like the whole Colombian stuff because chili's only existed in South America.

Dax:

So you take any cuisine, Thailand, India, all these places you think of as having spicy food, only within the last, like, several 100 years. Prior to that, their food wasn't spicy because chilies originated in South America, and that seems impossible.

Adam:

Is chili the only spicy thing?

Dax:

But just the chilies, like, the chili family of, like, stuff that makes it spicy. Like, the what's it called? The capas? It's whatever the Capsaicin. This capsaicin.

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. It originated in South America. Nobody had spicy food before that, and I'm just, like, this can't be real, but it is.

Adam:

That's crazy.

Dax:

Yeah. So at some point, there were some Indian parent that was, like, a normal Indian person, then their kid was, like, oh, look at this new shit I just made up. And the the Indian parent, like, oh, it's too spicy for me. You know? Like, that happened.

Dax:

Did they know

Adam:

the word spicy? Or, I mean, like No. Yeah.

Dax:

I guess they invented it for

Adam:

Yeah. But

Dax:

it's yeah. It's wild.

Ken:

That is wild as hell. Yeah. It's super wild. Like like, thinking about, like, how, like, the cultures in antiquity were so different because, like, the, like, peppers must have just been unreal for them.

Dax:

Peppers. Yeah. Not Chili's peppers. Yeah. Yeah.

Dax:

It's yeah. I mean, sometimes I, like, try to sit and I, like, close my eyes and try to imagine, like, walking around in, like, Greece and I'm just, like, just can't it doesn't say it can't be real, but it is.

Ken:

It's actually super impressive that they actually did a lot of the shit that they did. Mhmm. It's super impressive that fucking anybody I cannot believe that the human race didn't die out.

Dax:

Oh, yeah. It's crazy. It's so crazy. Like, life was so hard. Like, even just having a baby and making it survive.

Adam:

It's hard today, like, having a baby and not going nuts.

Dax:

I think about all the times I ate some shit, and then, like, I got food poisoning, and I would have died if it wasn't for, like like, several times in my life, I would have already died if I was, like, in another part of history.

Adam:

People just had, like, lots of babies just to increase the odds, I guess.

Dax:

And then you die when you have a baby, like, 50% of the time or some shit.

Adam:

Like, it's it's,

Ken:

How

Adam:

did we make

Ken:

You could literally eat at McDonald's, and you'd be eating better than a king.

Dax:

It's fucking wild. It's wild.

Adam:

It's kinda nice.

Ken:

Like, back then, like, people were, like,

Adam:

really worried

Ken:

about animals. Like, are you really worried about animals, like, all the time? No. That's funny. I'm not.

Ken:

No. Never. And then, like, my friends in Nevada, they're afraid of, like, mountain lions or something like that.

Dax:

But, like, we dominated that shit a while ago, and now we don't have to worry about it at all.

Ken:

And now we like cougars.

Dax:

I saw that coming from

Ken:

a lot of people. We're like, people like afraid of wolves, right? Like,

Dax:

yeah, wolves. Yeah. I mean, in, in India, like, tigers are a big thing. Like and even now, like, we can look up videos even just, like, a couple of years ago where, like, a leopard gets loose in the village and everyone's fucking going nuts because it's just running around freaking out.

Ken:

Ever actually, like, seen a tiger?

Dax:

Yeah. They're big.

Ken:

They're I was at a zoo. It was either DC or New Orleans. 1 of the 2. But I'm I'm sitting there, and I had recently found out that, like like, tiger attacks are still very much a thing in India. Yeah.

Ken:

I was saying that, like, oh, there's this tiger over here. Right? And, like, lions lions are kinda bitch like, like, compared to, like, what they're, like, you know, all fucking lions. Like, you see lions. You're like, okay.

Ken:

But I went over by the tiger cage. Right? And this shit was, like it just made, like, a noise. Like, it's gonna be, like, a

Dax:

The guttural thing. Yeah. And the crazy

Ken:

fucking here, dude. I'm like, that is, like that's, like, one of the scariest things I've ever heard in my life, that that exists.

Dax:

Yeah.

Ken:

Like, could you imagine? You're just, like, chilling. Right? And you hear that.

Dax:

Now you're fucked.

Ken:

With this massive monster of a cat. It's terrifying.

Dax:

Have you seen that video with a guy and the elephant? No. Okay. There's there's a guy riding an elephant. The video is, like, from some guy sitting behind him.

Dax:

So they're on the elephant, and they're walking through a field with, like, kinda high grass. And then you see something moving in the grass, and the tiger jumps up up, like, onto the elephant and, like, swipes his arm and, like, he gets injured and then it, like, it runs away. It, like, jumped as high as an elephant to fuck with him.

Ken:

I don't even know what you did. You can't climb trees. They can climb trees.

Dax:

Yeah. You can't do it. You're screwed.

Ken:

That's Probably need houses. Scary.

Adam:

We figured out how to build shelter. We have doors and

Dax:

locks. Yeah.

Ken:

Yeah. Something got loose in New Jersey pretty recently.

Dax:

Was it a bear? The bears in New Jersey aren't really like No.

Ken:

There's always there's always bears. No. It was a Yeah.

Dax:

They're not really like a threat.

Ken:

It was something cooler, like a lion.

Dax:

Oh, like from a zoo?

Ken:

Yeah. No. It's funny. I was looking at this thing. Like, I I I'd like you know, have you ever gone to, like, the beach jerky place, and they have, like, all, like, the exotic meats?

Dax:

Yeah.

Ken:

Yeah. Alligator and rattlesnake and everything like that? And so I like that. There was this, like, there was this bar in New Brunswick, right, that had, like, a, like, a speakeasy me restaurant.

Dax:

Exactly you're talking about. It's, like, across from the courthouse or, like, I think it Clyde.

Adam:

I know

Ken:

what you're

Dax:

talking about. Yeah. Clyde's. Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah. Exactly. There, and

Ken:

then you get, like, rattlesnake, this is and that. So, like, I I got, like, indusible. Oh, man. I gotta, like, see, like like, what what's, like, the the max on this. Right?

Ken:

So there was a company in Florida selling lion tacos. Lion? Yeah.

Dax:

What? Are you supposed to eat predators, though? It's not like a whole

Ken:

I don't know. They got shut down.

Dax:

They're like me sketched.

Ken:

The whole thing got shut down.

Adam:

That makes sense.

Ken:

These animals are fucking ragged. Look at this shit. My big ass head fucking

Dax:

I'm telling you, the, this is why I don't wear normal headphones. When you shave your head, headphones just don't look look as

Ken:

good. I'm gonna get, like, the ridge. Have you seen that? The headphone ridge? Oh, yeah.

Adam:

Oh, I've yeah. Like, dents in the head? Yeah. That's crazy. That's what we are today.

Adam:

They used to, like, run from lions, and now we're like, oh, my head is on my

Ken:

head. Yeah.

Dax:

Oh, yeah. My finger hurts from ordering my Uber Eats.

Ken:

Right. Whenever you, like, read, like like, old stories and writings and shit, they're, like, so dramatic that it seems, like, corny if you were to do it today. And I think a lot of the reason is, like, shit like that. Right? Because it literally was dramatic.

Ken:

Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. Yeah. On the flip side though, like sometimes you read like older philosophy books and stuff, it's crazy how modern their problems feel. Like, they just talk about a lot of the same shit that that we talk about, but, like, you know, 2000 years ago. It's like the same shit that we deal with today.

Dax:

And what's crazier is they, like, figured out all that shit back then when, like, life was a lot harder. Like, when do they have the time to do this? I think about our, like, like, the founding fathers of America. These people were insane, like they, you know, grew up in the 1700, which is like a crazy time to live, like nothing modern. They fought a war, which is crazy, like, just fighting a war.

Dax:

Then they, like, understood enough about, like, government and philosophy and, like, they understood, like, how ancient Greece worked and, like, got inspiration from, like, they knew all this stuff and they created a constitution, like, how did they do all of this?

Ken:

And they were, like, 24 at the time.

Dax:

Whole life. Yeah. Exactly.

Ken:

Except for Ben Frank. What the hell? Who was just, like Yeah. He was a weirdo. And getting his dick sucked.

Ken:

He's fucking awesome. What a guy.

Adam:

What a guy. Yeah.

Ken:

Dude, can you imagine being such a fucking pimp that fucking you weren't a president who just put on the money? Like, the best money too? They're like, this guy is, like, your vitamins. Yeah. This guy is the man.

Ken:

Somebody probably proposed it, and somebody's, like, wait. Hold on a second. Just shut the fuck up. Like

Dax:

We're not discussing this.

Ken:

Well, you know, the the reason why is because they didn't have TikTok.

Dax:

Dude, well, if it gets banned, I feel we're gonna have a productivity boost.

Ken:

Yeah. I mean, they didn't have they didn't have the phone. They didn't have the the the the bread and the circus. All the you know, it was, like, for for fun, they would go, like, read books. Like, they couldn't wait to get their hands on a book.

Dax:

That's true. Yeah.

Ken:

Like a fucking chemistry textbook. I'm gonna lock myself up and fucking read it by candlelight. And it's it's gonna be, I mean, it's gonna be the best. That's all you had to do.

Adam:

It was

Ken:

like that or like, what do you remember? Like, like, everyone here is old enough to remember, like, pre cell phone. Like, do you remember, like, waiting for a ride after, like, football practice without a cell phone? Like, you're just sitting down on a curb. You're like, Yeah.

Ken:

You're, like, fucking ripping grass apart, like, fucking throwing rocks at the door. You didn't fucking have anything to do. You can just sit there and think about holy shit. Right? You're like, oh, man.

Ken:

It's kinda crazy. Like, the the thing that you put on hot dogs is called condiments. Like, you have time to think about things like that. And now, you

Dax:

know, I I I do wonder about that. Because, like, whenever you go anywhere and there's a line, it's everyone's on their phone. And then you imagine, like, what was this like 20 years ago? Or even it's, like, 10 years ago?

Adam:

There's no idler anytime. There's no no time where your brain is idle anymore. Right? Like, it's always always active, always being fed something like dopamine Yeah. Or whatever.

Dax:

That's why I, like, actually never I've never gotten the habit of taking headphones when I go anywhere. Like, I don't listen to anything when I'm walking or anything. I know. So like

Adam:

Really?

Ken:

That's just situational awareness.

Adam:

I listen to books. Wait. Situational awareness, like, you you need to not be listening. So if somebody, like, comes up on you or something

Ken:

Yeah. Because I don't have

Adam:

to worry about that in the Ozark. So maybe that's why.

Ken:

Yeah. No. I just like that shit. Like if, if I'm walking through like the city or something, I don't put headphones on. I wanna know what's going on.

Ken:

Same thing that that's like another thing with like parenting, like, like we have like Oculus and shit like that. And it's like really difficult to like immerse into that because I have like, like pending responsibilities. Yeah. Right. I don't sit here with headphones on because it's like, oh, like, what if something happens upstairs?

Ken:

Like a kid gets hurt or, you know, like my wife, like, falls off of a chair or something like, I I I don't like the idea of that.

Adam:

Well, I feel like a jerk for listening to music while I work. So

Dax:

well, you don't care about your family, so it's not good.

Adam:

I guess not.

Ken:

That's cool. That's cool. You know, like, you know, like, you'll go somewhere and, like or, like, when a plane doesn't have Wi Fi? You know?

Adam:

Like Most of them.

Ken:

I feel like where I'm at. Actual anxiety when Mhmm. I, like, I don't know that if I need to be reached, I could be reached.

Dax:

Yeah. You don't know, like, what pending news is happening.

Ken:

Exactly. I'll be like, I'm like an airplane. Right. And there's no wifi. I'm like, oh my God.

Ken:

Like, like I could be getting like canceled on Twitter right now. And I would have no idea. And I would like land and then like and like you weren't there to defend yourself.

Dax:

Yeah, that happens to me by accident sometimes where I'm like actually enjoying my life and I, like, leave my phone somewhere and I forget about it for hours. Then I remember I'm, like, fuck, there's definitely something bad. And then I go and I, like, feel so relieved when there's, like, nothing.

Ken:

It's it's weird. If you if if you make yourself uncontactable for, like, 6 to 8 hours, somebody's gonna have a problem with it.

Adam:

Oh, yeah. I mean, my wife.

Ken:

I'll tell you a funny story, but I was at React Miami. And I land, and I get there. And, you know, everyone's, like, in the hot tub in the pool area hanging out. I'm like, ah, what's going on? So I, like, I pick up, you know, 2 hours later, I have, like, the bartenders making, like, the drink, my signature drink.

Ken:

I'm like, yeah. So it's, like, white wine and a little triple sec. She's a fine house. Right. So I'm like, all right, guys, all right, I'm going to go take a shower.

Ken:

And then, you know, we can meet up for the speaker dinner or whatever. So I go up and, like, you know, classic, man. I tell you who I says, lay down for one second. That was a lot. You know?

Ken:

I fucking wake up. It's, like, 1 in the morning. I get there's, like, a 1,000,000,000 missed calls from my wife. She's like she's like, what the fuck? I call her.

Adam:

I'm like

Ken:

I'm like, hey. She's like, what's going on? I'm like, you're not gonna believe this. I literally fell asleep. And, like, she, like, believed like, she's, like, you know, she wasn't like, you're you're lying about this.

Ken:

You know? But it was just so weird for me to, like, not be contactable that she was like Yeah. Shit. He's, like, dead or in jail or something.

Adam:

Yeah. What was, yeah, what was business travel like, like, 30 years ago when people didn't have stuff?

Ken:

Oh, god.

Adam:

It was

Ken:

probably awesome. You could, like, smoke cigarettes and shit and fucking

Adam:

harass the

Ken:

flight sentences. Like, that's that's how I'm that's how I'm imagining it went. You had, like, real silverware and you're, like, drinking whiskey and shit. I don't know

Dax:

how any of this stuff happened because when I lived in New York, I'd always, like, go and meet out with my friends. And we would, like, literally have our location shared so we knew that, like, oh, okay. He's gonna be here in a couple minutes. Like, imagine going to meet up with for someone to dinner and they just don't show up and you're like, are they dead? Like, should I wait?

Dax:

Like, what the fuck do I do? I feel like doing anything seems impossible, like, coordinating anything.

Adam:

Back at

Ken:

the day, I remember, dude, we used to sit there and, like, like we would hang out at the boardwalk 711. Right. There was a 711 right across from the world. We just like, hang out on this bike rack. Right.

Ken:

And like, that's just how you like, I'd leave my house and I'd be like, let me go to serve. Right. I go over there and I they'd be on the bike rack. I'm like, Hey, yeah, I'd post up on the bike rack and like, like, you have like this, but like, we didn't have cell phones or anything like that. And I remember, like, there was this girl, right?

Ken:

And she like, she wasn't, she didn't live in the town. She just, like, came for the summer, sort of. Right. So, like, we didn't know her that well, but we knew her well enough. And, you know, like, I I like finally kind of locked it in.

Ken:

Right. It was kind of like established that something might go down. And this is like young dude. He's like 12. Right?

Ken:

So it's not like so, like, she had to go and, like, I had to go because it was, like, curfews or whatever. And I'm like Curfews. I'm like, alright. Yo. What are you doing tomorrow?

Ken:

And she's like, she's like, I'll be out. She's like, come find me. Right? Like, there was none of this to, like like, come find me. Yeah.

Ken:

So then, like, you know, when you're sitting there, like like, 12, 13 years old pussy brained. Right? Like, fucking out there on the bike rack. You know, people roll up, like, are you sick? Did you see nanny?

Dax:

You know, like

Ken:

and, you know, and they're like, no. We didn't. I'm like, where the fuck is she? Right? Like, hey.

Ken:

I'm gonna go ride my bike and let's see if she's out and about. Right?

Adam:

Yeah. I'm like,

Ken:

I didn't find it.

Dax:

Oh, no. But yeah. Yeah. It's wild. That's what it was like.

Dax:

Stuff was more, you know, when you described that, I was like, oh, yeah. That is then now I can remember what it was like. Just random shit would happen like that all the time. And it would feel really good when it worked out Yeah. Because it was random, entirely out

Ken:

of your control. Each other would be like, hey. What's up? Yeah. Link up and do you remember, like, calling people's houses?

Dax:

Oh, yeah.

Ken:

What time is rad his house there? Yeah. Exactly. Call the piggy the parents pick

Dax:

up Not for you. You.

Ken:

Not for you, Ian. You call at Earl's house. You're like, may I please speak with

Adam:

I,

Dax:

I need help with my homework, or, like, I forgot my my worksheet.

Ken:

Are you like I remember, like like, also pre cell phone, like, they're like, you'd have, like, the cord like, it wasn't just the one kitchen phone. Like, we evolved to have the multiple cordless phones. Yeah. Right. So you'd be sitting there, like, like, talking to some girl, like, I know what you did.

Ken:

You something dick, right? And it's like like, you hear, like, the cordless phone click off. Somebody was listening. Yeah.

Dax:

Yeah. You're

Ken:

like, motherfucker. Fucker. There there was, like, no expectation of privacy whatsoever.

Dax:

Man, I can't believe I can't believe we lived through that. That feels like a different different time.

Ken:

There's, like, adults who have no concept of what that was like. Yeah. That's true. Like, people who there's, like, people in their twenties right now who, like, never experienced any of that.

Dax:

Yeah. And they were born, like, in the year 2001, which is insane that people were born then.

Ken:

Yeah. It's fucking crazy business, man.

Dax:

Yeah. I'm glad I grew up and I yeah. Like, when we did. It's just I felt like it was just, like, childhood was, like, so much simpler and straightforward. I love my I love growing up.

Dax:

Just everything about it. It was great.

Ken:

I wonder if childhood was, was simpler. I wonder if the kids now, right, like like, tech aside, will have the same thing just because it's childhood or because it actually was?

Dax:

Yeah. It's hard to say, the nostalgia and, like, just not having responsibilities and and all that, but my days were straightforward as fuck. Like, I just did the same thing every single day.

Ken:

There was a good shift, though. Like, basically, like, prior to that, for a good portion there, like, kids could just go out and be out and about. You know, go outside. That's that's when I yeah.

Dax:

That's when I grew up. That's that was normal. Yeah. Yeah.

Ken:

But that's, like, super not normal now.

Dax:

Yeah. Exact yeah. That's what I'm talking about. Like, it's it's like and even as an adult, I feel like there's this thing that happened. I don't know I mean, let's talk about this.

Dax:

I don't know if it's like a post COVID thing. Like, I feel like no one just hangs out, at least for us, like, in our circles, no one just hangs out randomly. It's like you have to, like, schedule a formal meeting, like, 2 weeks in advance

Ken:

like, have

Dax:

dinner for exactly 2 hours. And just, like, I just don't that just is a different thing. Like, it doesn't I feel like we lost something.

Ken:

It's a it's a big schedule thing. Yeah, I don't know

Dax:

if that's just part of getting older but it's just different than how we used to operate. Like, I would just, like, get done with the work and then just, like, randomly go meet up with one of my friends, like, all the time, and it just it's not a thing that happens as much anymore.

Ken:

Did your friends have kids?

Dax:

My friends don't have kids now, and it's still kinda it's still

Ken:

like after COVID.

Dax:

I feel like everything turned into, like, more of a plan.

Ken:

Kids is, like, a big thing, like, schedule wise. They're like, fuck with this guy. Like like, you know, my boys would be like Yeah.

Dax:

I get that.

Ken:

Oh, we're all gonna go fucking do this at Buffalo Wild Wings. And I'd be like, I'm like, yeah. I'm gonna go to Buffalo Wild Wings on a fucking Tuesday night. I'll be fucking. I'll never hear the end of it.

Dax:

No. But, like, even with our friends that that don't have kids, I've heard we forgot how to just randomly casually hang out. It just ended up having to be, like, this formal plan.

Ken:

You You definitely don't pop over anybody else's place anymore.

Dax:

Yeah. We're used to. It's like, yeah, and that was great. I loved it. And I would love it now.

Dax:

Like, if someone did that right now, I'd have no problem with it. We actually have a neighbor that kinda does that, and it's it's nice, but it's not normal.

Ken:

If somebody, like, just, like, pulled up, like, midday, and was like, what are you doing? Right? And I didn't have anything going on. Like, that'd be, like, the best thing. I'd be like, oh, yeah.

Ken:

Yeah. Let's get a bottle and fuck. Do dumb shit. Yeah. It'd be amazing.

Ken:

You should show up at Adam's house.

Adam:

I don't really I don't really I don't really do the hanging out thing. I thought it was just because we had kids, and now we just don't prioritize any kind of social life. But maybe it's just our personalities.

Ken:

So I think so so we don't just, like, hang out with people. Right? Like, we can just like fucking hang out. Like, I don't have, like, you know, I know I know people who do, like, have, like, like, you know, the kind of guys who, like, go to, like, all their friends, like, like, like, wedding, all their college friends' weddings, you know, like, oh, it's weddings. She's gonna go to these weddings.

Ken:

All these people were fucking, like, really close. Like, I don't have any of that.

Dax:

Yeah. I mean, either.

Ken:

Like that. No. But, you know, there's people that do. They're, oh, my best buds for life. These fucking college people and shit.

Ken:

I don't have any of that. But I think that if you find people, especially with kids, right? Like if, if, if you find people that are like the same kind of people as you, hanging out with them is a lot of fun. We we had

Adam:

So that's Yeah. That's the problem. There we we don't know anybody

Ken:

like us fucking weird.

Adam:

In the area. We're we're pretty different, like yeah. Exactly. I mean, we live in a very, like like, a very monoculture. Like, the Ozarks are a certain thing, and we're very different from that thing.

Adam:

So there's really not, like, a lot of overlap. We've never really found people that we felt like we connected with here. This just got depressing. I'm sorry.

Ken:

Yeah. Well, I mean, we had people who were on the same page. Like, they had, like, kids and liked to fucking just like chill and drink white claws in the pool and chip, but they moved.

Dax:

That's the worst heartbreaking.

Ken:

Yeah. I was like, damn it. Yeah. Because, like, oh, the, like, the, like, the other like, there's there's people we can hang out with, but it's not really same page.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah. Or you're just yourselves. Like, I I've definitely experienced that in life. Like, the difference between, like, people that you could have over, but you're kinda just, like, ready for it to be over from the beginning.

Adam:

Like, you just don't really wanna sit down and do the dinner thing. It's just the whole thing's kind of, like, less comfortable than your normal life. And then there's people that

Dax:

you can just be yourself.

Adam:

You know what I mean? Like like, why are we even doing this? Do do you guys even wanna be here? Like, do we want you to be here? No.

Adam:

This is kinda stupid. Like, we've definitely done that.

Ken:

I do have some contenders, though, at the moment. Oh. And,

Adam:

people that might be that.

Ken:

So you end up meeting, like, your your your kids' school friends' parents.

Adam:

Mhmm.

Ken:

And sometimes Right. Sometimes they're cool. A lot of the times they're like

Dax:

Dude, that's great when you have kid that that little networking bots for you.

Ken:

Yeah. No. No. If you meet people who are, like, you know, cut from the same cloth or generally on the same page, like, that works out. You know, like I've chilled with a, with a couple of parents that like, they're like, I have like a play date and they'll be like, oh, well yeah, you guys come over too.

Ken:

We'll do dinner or some shit. Right. It's like, cool. And then there's other ones where it's just like completely different. They go to like birthday parties.

Ken:

We're we're, we're like, like a lot of like the parents are older

Dax:

okay.

Ken:

In this particular area. Right. So like, I roll up in like fucking like this. Right. And these guys are more of, like, the, like, the on clouds and the quarter zip fleece.

Ken:

You know?

Adam:

I the closest thing I've got now to, like, a burgeoning social life is just the people at my jiu jitsu gym. I do feel like there's a certain bond.

Ken:

Oh, that is the best.

Adam:

It really is. Like, I have nothing else in common with most of them, but just that's enough. It's like we have this thing in common. And I do see I could, like, see some of those things turning into friendships that I actually

Ken:

Have you partied with them yet?

Adam:

No. They did a Christmas party, and I wasn't able to make it. That's the closest thing that would have happened.

Ken:

I I I made a lot of good friends from from martial arts. Tons.

Adam:

It's a bonding experience. I mean, it's kinda hard not to.

Ken:

Gotta have you gotta have, like, gym outings.

Adam:

I can't believe we haven't talked about jiu jitsu.

Ken:

It's great.

Adam:

I I had no idea you were into jiu jitsu. Like, you've been doing it for a while. Somehow I haven't done that.

Ken:

Doing it for a while.

Adam:

Or you have been doing it for you just I mean, like, you've been doing it long enough to be I mean, you're you're a late blue belt. That's you've been doing it for a little while. Katelyn, I've never heard you talk about it on Twitter or something. I don't know.

Ken:

No. No. No. I did it. It.

Ken:

Like like, it I did it, like, very, very aggressively. And then after kids, it, like, tapered off for the most part. Yeah. I've gone back, like, a few times, but, Yeah. Not not recently.

Ken:

But, yeah. How much fun is that?

Adam:

It's so much fun.

Ken:

That's the best.

Adam:

You gotta do it. Gotta give it a shot.

Ken:

It's really quite a bit of fun.

Adam:

It's kind of a hard thing to just give a shot. Like, you just go once or twice, and you're just gonna be in pain. Your hands are gonna hurt, and you're like, why did I do that? You kinda have to, like, go all in for a while and then give it a real shot, but it does have implications.

Ken:

Very chest like. It's it's cerebral.

Adam:

The, the cerebral side of it. Yeah.

Ken:

For sure. Like, like, like you're always trying to, if you actually wanna land something, like you have to set it up, like in advance and you also need to be able to detect when they're setting it up. Right. You're like, like feeling the flow. It's crazy.

Ken:

And then it's also really, it's like, you know, if you're at like work all day long and it's like regular, like tech one and not so much now poster, but like, like pre tech was like really, really sensitive. And then like you'd leave work and you just go to this gym and everybody's like calling each other a bitch

Dax:

and pussy and shit.

Ken:

It was like the best.

Adam:

Yeah. The contrast. Yeah.

Dax:

Is that what your gym is like, Adam? Are people calling you a bitch?

Adam:

No. Mhmm. It's the other one I see though. Comfortable with now.

Ken:

Oh, it's Midwestern.

Adam:

No. It's just like Midwestern. This is a different culture. Yeah. I mean, it's just like people are different here.

Adam:

We're all kind of, like, half fake all the time. Just a little, like, shiny veneer in in front of everything we do.

Ken:

Man,

Dax:

are you guys all robots? What?

Adam:

It's kinda like yeah. I appreciate the East Coast, like, how you guys are, just how raw, and you just say what you think. Like, I wish I could do that.

Ken:

Why don't they do that? It actually bothers me that they don't do that.

Adam:

But people in the Midwest don't do that? Yeah. Yeah. No. Me too.

Adam:

I think it gets worse if you go, like, I mean, Southern California is probably the worst, right, in terms of fakeness and, like, pretend like you like somebody or, like, you're

Ken:

Seattle freeze.

Adam:

Out there for them when you're not.

Dax:

What is that? Yeah.

Adam:

I don't know what that is. I don't know anything about the northwest.

Ken:

It's basically that. So is

Dax:

it just everywhere except for the northeast?

Adam:

I think so. I think the northeast is unique in it. No.

Ken:

I think the south is like a a politer northeast.

Dax:

Do you think people are straightforward in the south?

Ken:

I think so.

Dax:

I guess I I don't know either way. Yeah. I'm not sure. Miami is its own thing. Miami is not in the United States so it's like it's got its own vibe.

Dax:

People are straightforward as fuck here.

Ken:

I don't consider that. I don't I don't consider Florida, at least the bottom half of Florida, the south.

Dax:

Yeah. No. It's it's, yeah, it's it's different. But people are here are, like, really straightforward. But that's more of, like, the the Latin side of things.

Ken:

I feel like also, like, Florida is at least 65% people who came there from New York. Yeah.

Dax:

That's true. It's funny. So, speaking of, like, you know, getting to know people that you click with, so we moved to our old house is available, and we're, like, really keeping an eye on who moves in there because we're hoping that they're people that we'd like to chill with because it'd be amazing if you're, like, cool with your neighbors like that. Every single person that has looked at it has been from New York. Every single one.

Dax:

It's really crazy. There was actually one that wasn't, but she was from San Francisco. So, yeah, everyone moves here. It's crazy.

Ken:

Is it still is it still heated up or is it cooled down a little?

Dax:

The market, I think it's definitely not continuing to increase. I don't know if stuff has gone down that much, maybe a little bit, but it's not, like, going up anymore which is which is good.

Ken:

That is good.

Dax:

But the interest rates fuck everything up, like, I don't know. It's just the prices haven't matched those yet.

Ken:

I feel like the problem the biggest problem is that unlike many places, like, you have Miami. And, like, normally, I'd be, like, oh, go look fucking, like, you know, 30 minutes west. But, like, 30 minutes west is a fucking giant swamp. Right? Like like like, 75% of that whole area is just swamp.

Ken:

Right? So you don't have the opportunity to really, like, you know, it's not like, you know, like like Atlanta has, like, suburbs, exurbs.

Dax:

I so I actually don't think well, I think what's maybe not obvious is the city city part of Miami is pretty small and most of Miami is actually suburb. So there actually is a lot of opportunity to live, like, within a 30 minute range of, like, the coastal like, the city that's directly on the coast of the downtown area. And there's, like, a huge range of, like, options there, like, in terms of, like, price.

Adam:

But

Ken:

it's only north or south for the most part?

Dax:

No. I think it so there's about, like, if you drive from the coast, if you like, say, like you said, if you drive west, there's about an hour of driving before you hit the end of the development where, like, the swamp starts. And they've been actually, like, building into that. So Liz's parents live they, like, moved to the edge at the time, which was, like, 10 or 15 years ago. And that was, like, them, like, cutting down the swamp and, like, building houses there.

Dax:

And they're continuing to go. Now the edge shift shifted a little bit further. So

Ken:

So it's like Kendall Sweetwater. This is, like, an hour?

Dax:

I think Kendall's further south. Right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sweetwater.

Dax:

Yeah. So she's from, yeah. Kendall. Exactly. That's, like, 45 minutes to an hour from the coast.

Dax:

Really? Yeah. So she's more from Miami Lakes. She's a little bit further north. It's just because I mean, it could yeah.

Dax:

45 minutes, I think, is is fair. We live on the coast a little bit further south in in Coconut Grove, and that's, like, south of Coral Gables, which for some reason, everyone knows Coral Gables. I saw you, like, referencing it the other day. I don't know. Like, everyone somehow knows

Ken:

that Coral

Dax:

Gables is is a spot.

Ken:

I'm like, oh, I was gonna, like, fucking move it's like a joke to them. I'm like, I'm like, oh, well, yeah, I'd love to live in Miami. They're like, oh, you end up in the van gate. What's that? But, like, is that, like, where New Jersey will go?

Dax:

That's not actually the joke. The joke is that if you live there, it's fucking nice. Like, it is like the Yeah. You you'd love it. You fucking love it.

Ken:

It's a little pricey at the moment, though, to be honest with you.

Dax:

Yeah. But that's, like, the highest end. I was unless you're, like if you're a normal person, that's, like, the top. Obviously, you can go, like Absurd. Way like Jeff Bezos, though, here.

Dax:

But if you're like a normal person, Coral Gables is like the top. But, yeah, somehow everyone, it's like a

Ken:

Should I move there?

Dax:

Joker knows about it. Dude, I'd love it. We'd be like 10 minutes away from the move.

Ken:

And I'll just stop by your house randomly. And you're like, fuck. I regret everything I said.

Dax:

Not every day. Give me some time to work, but

Ken:

Fun guy really got me into alcohol and shit. I smell like a jujitsu gi.

Dax:

And do

Ken:

you wash your gi every day every day every time?

Adam:

Every every time. Yeah. I got a bunch of these.

Ken:

Just making sure.

Adam:

I I take a different one every time.

Ken:

That's a that's a good thing.

Dax:

I I

Adam:

wash my dope.

Dax:

I do all

Ken:

of you, like, not washing the gate.

Adam:

Messing around with ringworm and

Ken:

yeah. Have you gotten a skin infection yet? You will. No? Is

Dax:

that a thing? You will.

Adam:

I will.

Ken:

You will. I've heard.

Dax:

Just from, like, other people's sweat?

Adam:

I got one in in high school football. I got staff.

Ken:

No. I mean, like like, it's kinda like weird shit. Like, a little rot going on.

Adam:

That sounds disgusting.

Ken:

Yeah. Are you, are you on like Advil and tiger bomb yet?

Adam:

I'm sorry. What?

Ken:

Like Advil and tiger bomb, like your joints hurt.

Adam:

My joints definitely hurt, But what's Tiger Balm?

Ken:

It's like the shit that you put on your muscles and after after shit, and it, like, stings. It's like Bengay? Sort of. Yeah.

Adam:

Uh-huh. No. I do I take, not Advil, but I take, like, turmeric supplements.

Ken:

Yeah.

Adam:

Turmeric?

Ken:

Yeah. I do.

Adam:

I don't know how to say

Ken:

that. Turmeric.

Adam:

It helps. It's like I do.

Ken:

This holistic Advil, and then It just less of a I'd like him empty out a thing of frozen vegetables on top of a pizza and fucking jerk off a coconut oil. Oil.

Adam:

Do you

Dax:

remember that picture that Adam posts? Anytime Adam posts a picture of what he's eating, it just looks disgusting.

Ken:

There was a couple there was a couple times where it looked half decent, and I was like, I'd eat that.

Dax:

There was there was some pizza you posted once, and I was like, what the hell is this? You posted something

Adam:

like pizza.

Ken:

So are you vegan or are you vegetarian?

Adam:

Yeah. We've been vegan for, like, 11 years in February.

Ken:

Okay. So you don't cheese?

Adam:

No cheese.

Ken:

Yeah. No vegetarian. I could maybe do. Maybe. Just cheese exists?

Ken:

Cheese exists.

Adam:

There's a lot of vegan cheeses. They're probably really gross. They're all already as processed and stuff.

Ken:

We used to, I used to be by this, is, you know, there's we used to go there for lunch sometimes. Right. When I, I used to work in this like little New Jersey city. Right. And they'd have like, you know, a couple places like that, like vegan spots.

Ken:

Right. And like, yeah, there was like a pizza that was like cold and it was like crushed up nuts as cheese. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, you know, it's fine for what it is, but it's it's not fucking pizza.

Adam:

Yeah. Those are different things.

Dax:

I do feel like vegan technology has gotten better. I feel like some of them

Adam:

There's a lot of them.

Dax:

Restaurants that are vegan are actually pretty good. There's one in my neighborhood that I keep saying this. I'm not going to because I'm not gonna go to a vegan spot on my own, but if Adam is here,

Adam:

I'll go with him.

Dax:

Everyone says it's amazing.

Ken:

They have, what is that? They they make everything with it. Temp Tempe?

Adam:

Tempe?

Dax:

Oh, yeah. Tempe. Tempe.

Ken:

Yeah. Yeah. So, like, there there's a place by us where they have, like, vegan barbecue ribs and vegan chicken sandwiches and shit like that. And Yeah. It it it actually tastes like that food.

Ken:

But I can't imagine that's good for you, the way that they they sent this No.

Dax:

It never is. When they try to make it, they just make good food on its own. Whenever they try to make it like other food, it's always, like,

Adam:

a bunch of bullshit. Like, the fake burgers and stuff. Like Oh, the fake meat. To me, like That's looks so cool. Really realistic fake meat, it's like, I don't know what their market is because I I'm not trying to, like, replace meat in my life.

Adam:

I'm not missing

Ken:

You don't miss hamburgers?

Adam:

So that's not to me. We eat burgers. Like, we eat plant based burgers. Not like the impossible ones so much.

Ken:

No. What I'm saying is you don't miss actual burgers. Not at all.

Adam:

No. I don't miss, like, really anything we used to eat. There's something like a year in where, you just kinda, like, adapt and it's just a very different like, now the idea of dairy just kinda makes me sick, like the idea of it in my body. So it's not like a like a willpower thing where it's like, man, what I'd do for a steak. You just kinda, like, lose taste for it.

Ken:

Is that

Dax:

true for everyone that's vegan? Or do you think that's

Adam:

I think if you are for a while, I think it'd be hard to still want those foods.

Dax:

I can't fathom, like, at some point looking at a picture of a steak and not feeling anything.

Adam:

Not feeling anything?

Ken:

Do you know what my favorite thing to do in the entire world is?

Dax:

Do what you wanna know?

Adam:

I have some guesses.

Ken:

Get my vegan friends all fucked up and get a VPG. I try to get down that.

Dax:

Okay.

Adam:

Now I'm gonna be very careful in Miami in a couple mo in a month.

Ken:

Do you ever accidentally eat meat? No.

Adam:

I think we've accidentally eaten, some dairy in our 11 years, but just a couple times, and it was, like, people who didn't understand what vegan was. In the Ozarks, it's like, oh, you're vegan? Yeah. I know what that is. Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah. You just don't eat meat. But it's like, well, actually, I'm more bougie than that. I'm more I'm more extra.

Adam:

Yeah. More annoying than that. Dairy. Yeah. More annoying.

Dax:

You can't use 80% of the ingredients in your kitchen. Make me food.

Adam:

Yeah. No. It's impossible. We that's the thing. When we went plant based, we basically don't eat with people, and that kinda sucks.

Adam:

That's a big part of social life, I guess. Like, when people get together, they just eat, and there's not, like, places we go out here to eat. It's just kind of like it's a thing people don't wanna bring up.

Ken:

When you have that vegan buddy, like like, you're like, oh, let's go out and fucking have this delicious food. Right? And they're like Yeah. They're like, oh, I'm vegan. I'm like, well, then, you know

Adam:

Good luck.

Ken:

Did anybody have something for you? Do you have to carry around tactical pouches of fucking brussels sprouts?

Adam:

We we travel with brussels sprouts. We travel anytime we go anywhere. Like, we even just going to my parents' house, we take food with us. Just How

Ken:

often do you eat brussels sprouts?

Adam:

Pretty often. I love brussels sprouts. Like, we do stuff with it.

Ken:

Yeah. You laughed at it. Like, fucking, it's not a thing that you eat. I'm like, you can eat, like, 12 fucking things. How many of the brussels sprouts are not included?

Adam:

That's the thing. I I eat so much more variety than I did before we were plant I was super picky as a omnivore. And once we went plant based, for some reason, I don't know, we had to explore all these new foods. It just expanded a lot of what I eat. So I I feel like I eat way more

Ken:

I bet you like radishes right now, don't you?

Adam:

They're okay.

Dax:

Dude, radishes are amazing. I oh, you don't like them?

Adam:

I'm not super into radishes. I love beets.

Ken:

Beets are really good. The fun beets. Beets are good. I love beets.

Adam:

Like pick a beets

Ken:

and I forget that I eat beets and then it's like, yeah,

Dax:

take a shit.

Ken:

Oh, God.

Adam:

Even just the inside of your mouth. Game.

Ken:

It's intense. Like, oh, yeah. Oh, beets. I'm not dying. Oh, beets are fucking good.

Ken:

My wife makes a salad.

Dax:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And

Ken:

it's like,

Dax:

what is it?

Ken:

Like like salad and then, like, mandarin oranges, goat cheese, beets, and French dressing. And somehow, this combination comes together to be a very, very rare I think there might be, like, fucking candied walnuts in there too. I'm not sure.

Dax:

But Yeah. Yeah. That sounds right. I think I have this type of salad before. It's good.

Dax:

It is good. It is good.

Adam:

I think we've been on here long enough that I need to go. Yeah.

Ken:

I probably gotta go too.

Adam:

I'm feeling guilty for all that. I've been like half here and half working too, and I feel bad.

Ken:

Well, fellas, it was really nice to hang out.

Adam:

It was really nice to have you

Dax:

on stage. Like once a month or something. Yeah.

Ken:

There you go. I'm absolutely into that. I'm gonna go make a a beautiful stir fry for lunch. You enjoy your, mushroom. Mushroom.

Adam:

Some beets. Mushroom. Mushroom.

Ken:

He's like, yeah. I'm gonna take a lion's mane mushroom and

Adam:

For real. I don't think a day goes by that I don't consume some lion mane mushroom, but anyway

Ken:

How do you have access

Adam:

to it? We eat a lot of mushrooms.

Ken:

How do you have access to it? Oh, they

Adam:

have them at the grocery store.

Ken:

Really? They don't have them at our grocery store. I had to grow them.

Adam:

Really? They don't have Lion's Mane mushrooms in New Jersey?

Dax:

Mushrooms are easy to grow. Right?

Ken:

Yeah. You spray some shit on the dust, and it just fucking grows.

Dax:

This is amazing. Yeah.

Adam:

It is amazing.

Ken:

Alright, gang.

Adam:

Alright. On that note.

Ken:

Later, gators. See you guys.

Dax:

See you everyone. Bye.

Creators and Guests

Adam Elmore
Host
Adam Elmore
AWS DevTools Hero and co-founder @statmuse. Husband. Father. Brother. Sister?? Pet?!?
Twitter Website Link
Dax Raad
Host
Dax Raad
building @SST_dev and @withbumi
Twitter Website Link
Chris Enns
Editor
Chris Enns
I edit podcasts so you don't have to.
Twitter LinkedIn Mastodon Instagram Website Link
Ken Wheeler
Guest
Ken Wheeler
I made a jQuery plugin, gave a few talks and made a couple beats.
Twitter Website Link
Part 2 With Ken Wheeler - AI Farming, Adam Feels Nothing, and Dax Has Terrible Internet

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