Adam Nearly Dies, Upgrading iPhones, Svelte, and More Astro Fun
People are using morphine so wrong.
Speaker 2:Let's share with the audience some context. Yes, so yesterday, I'm usually at my computer all the time, but I I stepped away from a bad thing I was having dinner. And I came back and then I see a bunch of messages from Adam. The first message is a selfie from a hospital bed in like full hospital outfit. And you're not like smiling, it's like, you look really miserable.
Speaker 1:I felt awful at that moment, that's why
Speaker 2:I Yeah. Took the You look like really depressed and my Yeah. And then I see like a like a bunch of like long messages. I'm like, shit, Adam tried to kill himself. My first thought What?
Speaker 2:I saw Are that and I was
Speaker 1:you serious?
Speaker 2:Swear. But here's the thing, it's not but it wasn't that I'm like, oh, Adam's someone that would kill himself. My thought was, oh, Adam tried to kill himself, that's really crazy. I would have never expected that. That was my first immediate thought when I saw that.
Speaker 1:Because of my facial expression?
Speaker 2:Your facial expression, the hospital, then like, just the text?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Guess what
Speaker 2:I said to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was just like I skimmed it real quick, and it just sounded really serious.
Speaker 1:Like, where I was, like, I tried to kill myself, and that part
Speaker 2:of that made you think maybe. No. I mean, you just had, like, a bunch of, like, very serious things about, like, what to do if you die, and I'm just like, what the fuck? And then you didn't tell me anything else. Nothing.
Speaker 2:And I was like
Speaker 1:Did I not? I don't even remember what I said.
Speaker 2:No. You didn't say anything about what happened. You were just like Oh, no. I don't think I'm gonna die, but in case I do, well, here's x y z instructions. And I was like Woah.
Speaker 2:I was like, okay. I'm gonna just try to go back to work. And then I did. I did go back to work, but I felt weird the whole time. And then
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. Well, that's good. At least it felt weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Then And then you've
Speaker 1:gone but
Speaker 2:And I was like well, I I was like, let me just like reset for a second before I decide what to do. Then I ended up mess texting your your wife and then I told her like, Adam sent me this photo and didn't tell me anything else. And the first thing she says is, oh, he would. I
Speaker 1:really wasn't trying to be dramatic. No. Just No. I know.
Speaker 2:It was a serious situation. But I
Speaker 1:I didn't know where I was at that point. They hadn't gotten the results back from the the CT scan and all that.
Speaker 2:Like Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, you know, I've said it before, I think on stream once, that I get that issue with my I I think it's like a diaphragm hernia where it locks up and I, like, have to lay on my back. I think it's a hernia because if I lay on my back, it feels better. And I hear that's
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:That's hernia stuff.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But it's always in this left side kind of just next to my belly button. And last night, I well, it was yesterday afternoon, I started having what just felt like bloating. I just felt like, oh, I just ate something. I don't know. Ate too much something.
Speaker 1:Just kinda felt like uncomfortable. But then it progressively was getting more uncomfortable. And then eventually, like, I was just in our living room floor writhing around in pain, and I couldn't talk. I couldn't think. Casey's, like, trying to ask me, like, do we need to go to the hospital?
Speaker 1:I have idea what's going on. I was just in so much pain. Wow. It was it was intense. So she drove me into the hospital.
Speaker 1:So the basically, they ended up doing, like, CAT scan, figured out, like, it's not it wasn't my fear at the moment was that that hernia, it can lead to strangulation of the intestines. Oh. Like, if your intestine gets up through there, it can strangulate, and eventually it can, like, burst. And then it's, like, life threatening, like, the toxins in your body and all that stuff. So that was my fear, and I think that was the last thing I told Casey before I couldn't really communicate was, like, if it's if it's actually if it's strangulated, like, that's really bad.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, they did a CAT scan. It was just my intest my small intestines were very inflamed. They think it's viral. No hernia issue. No anything else.
Speaker 1:It was just really, really painful for a couple hours. They put me on morphine, and then I calmed down. I couldn't breathe. Like, just the way I was breathing, I wasn't trying to, but I was just hyperventilating myself. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, I was complete it was it was bizarre. I was, like, very dehydrated for some reason. All my muscles were cramping, and I was just, like, trying to get into a position on the hotel on the hospital bed that didn't hurt, and it was awful. But I'm alive, and I'm fine. Today, I feel great.
Speaker 1:Are
Speaker 2:you on any medication today?
Speaker 1:I mean, just ibuprofen. They've they've prescribed me some, like, narcotics. Yeah. But I'm not taking them.
Speaker 2:I don't
Speaker 1:think I need to. I I slept really good. So they gave me another ranamorphine before I went to bed, I and slept way better than I thought I would. And then this morning, I was expecting to wake up in pain, and I didn't. So I just got done working out.
Speaker 1:Really? Drinks. Wow. I'm on a liquid diet for a couple days, but, like, planning on business as usual at this point.
Speaker 2:That's crazy considering I thought you were dead yesterday.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I thought, like, I thought it was I I really did think it was a hernia or something. I thought it was gonna be something serious and then I was gonna not be able to compete. Like, I've got this the tournament I'm doing.
Speaker 2:That's what was thinking too. Was like, he's definitely not doing that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm planning to. Damn.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. I I'm alive. I feel good.
Speaker 2:Have you have you been on morphine before or is that your first time?
Speaker 1:That was my first time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So How good does it feel?
Speaker 1:You know, they told me, like, all these things to expect. Like, you might feel nauseated and you might feel warm or cold. I don't remember. I didn't really feel anything. It's just the pain.
Speaker 1:The relief from the pain was all that I cared about. Like, I fell asleep at some point because I was just like, the first time I've been able to stop breathing really. It was, like, not deep breathing, but it's like a shallow kind of in the middle of my breath range.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Because if I exhaled completely, it hurt really bad. If I inhaled completely so it's like I was kind of bouncing my breath in there and making these weird groans. Man, I was it I wish you could have seen me. The people at the hospital, I don't even know who all experienced it, but they they realized even though I wasn't bleeding or whatever that it was pretty serious. They were rushing me around because I was it was just, like, bent over.
Speaker 1:I could not move. I couldn't think. I couldn't communicate. It was awful.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's crazy that, like, in certain parts of your body, something happens. It's just, like, instantly goes to max pain and it might not even be related to how serious it is. It's just Yeah. The type of thing.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. It was. It was 10 out of 10 for me. That was as much pain as I can imagine being in, which is weird for it to just be like,
Speaker 2:You're fine.
Speaker 1:I mean, it just it felt like someone was just inflating my intestines and they were gonna explode at some point.
Speaker 2:Oh my god.
Speaker 1:And like, there there's nothing I could do about it. It was just it was right in the middle there. Sucked.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's I remember so Alan had like a minor surgery but he had like a pancreatitis Oh. Side effect from her or something like that. And I remember him describing so he was stuck in the hospital for a long time. I think it was like over a week, maybe two weeks or something.
Speaker 2:But they gave him that button that like adds more morphine to
Speaker 1:whatever You he's can like give it yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And he
Speaker 1:was He's interesting.
Speaker 2:He was like, I totally get addiction now because one, he said it felt like so good. I think just because he's so good. Yeah. Mean, he could just press a button and, like, feel really good. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Like the most direct form of just, like, whatever that, like, psychology thing is, like, training yourself to.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah
Speaker 2:yeah. Pat loves dog. Yeah. Exactly. He he was just like, I totally get this.
Speaker 2:Like, this just felt he just felt so good. I have an issue where most painkillers give me crazy amounts of nausea And some people are like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So they they prescribe these these painkillers and they also prescribe Zofran, which is like a nausea medicine. Yeah. Because I guess it causes a lot of that. I just don't I don't like nausea.
Speaker 1:I don't wanna mess around with nausea. So if as long as the ibuprofen keeps Yeah. Like, I feel pretty good today. Like, I I expected I'm not gonna eat any food for a while just because I don't wanna take a chance at passing through there and really hurting. But I expected to be in in a bad situation today.
Speaker 1:Like, they told me the doctor first said I think he said, like, seven days it takes to clear up these viral infections, but he said most of the pain should be, like, forty eight hours. So I was expecting today to be pretty awful, but it's been it's been good.
Speaker 2:Was there, like like, gas involved? Like, was that why a lot of the pain was there paid from that?
Speaker 1:I don't know. There hasn't been gas involved that I'm aware of. No. I know. So, like, the the that's what it felt like kind of, like, the most extreme gas pains in your intestines you can imagine.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But there was, like, no up or down signs of it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Gas pains are crazy because it's just like so that could be some of the worst pain you experience, but it's from something like so trivial and stupid. It's just like something is pushed the gas is pushing a part of your body against something that it shouldn't be touching. Yeah. That's like some of the worst pain you can possibly get.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think last night, I when they sent me home after the second round of morphine, I didn't feel nauseated but I threw up a lot on the way home. I think that probably helped me because whatever I had eaten that I was throwing up wasn't gonna go through my small intestines, and it wasn't gonna like, that area they they said it was, like, a specific area that was so inflamed, and it was on my left side. So it's like when the food gets to that part of your intestines, that's when the pain hits, I guess. So I threw up a lot, and I don't think there's any food left in my system.
Speaker 1:And and I think that helped. I think that's why I'm not really dealing with anything today.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. What would happen if you had, like, hot sauce right now or, like, some kind of hot Oh, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I have no idea. I don't wanna I don't wanna find out. Like, don't have
Speaker 2:any don't have any Indian food for,
Speaker 1:like, the next week? Yeah. No. I I probably won't. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I wanted to so he said clear liquids today. I guess this ain't clear. This is Dandy Blend. It's very black. But I was thinking like, oh, cool.
Speaker 1:I love, like, watermelon juice. I've been drinking a lot of those mellow Oh, okay. In case it's like, no fruit juice. I'm like, no. If I have to go all day without eating food, I can't even have stuff I want.
Speaker 1:So that sucks.
Speaker 2:I love soups. Like, love, like, like a lot of Asian soups are clear, I think. Like, pho
Speaker 1:or Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's something I've
Speaker 1:access to. Making me a bunch of broths.
Speaker 2:Broths? Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I actually don't mind that at all.
Speaker 2:It's, one, I genuinely like them and two, it just reminds me of being home sick from school, which is like
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Kind of a nice memory.
Speaker 1:Whenever you're sick. Yeah. Yeah. I remember, like, noodle soup and crackers and yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a good time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then ginger ale for some reason. It's like, if you're sick, drink a ginger ale.
Speaker 1:Why do yeah. I think ginger is supposed to be good for your for your stomach, maybe.
Speaker 2:But I'm pretty sure that the process of making ginger ale, like, gets rid of all the ginger. Because they, like, boil it or something. Forgot what
Speaker 1:it is.
Speaker 2:But That makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The the so I keep bringing it back to jujitsu. But the the competition Saturday, the thing that sucks the most is well, I mean, maybe it won't be a big deal. But I was originally I cut down from a hundred and or two hundred and eight pounds. I was down to one ninety one.
Speaker 1:Because the division you have to weigh in your gi, you have to weigh a hundred and ninety five or less. So I was trying to compete in that division. But the whole time, I'm cutting down and I eventually get to that weight. There's nobody else in my bracket. So my age and my weight, I was, like, in a a single bracket.
Speaker 1:Eventually, someone did join the bracket, but I don't wanna compete with one other person. I just can't stomach the idea of, like, losing my only match and standing on the podium in second place. I just can't do it. So I really didn't wanna compete in just just with one other person. So then I had to move up and wait to get into a division that has four or five people, which is two zero eight.
Speaker 1:So then I go from one ninety one, and I climb back up to one ninety nine because I don't wanna be at the bottom of my division. Right. So I've put on, like, six, seven pounds over the last few weeks. And now, I'm probably gonna lose five pounds from just not eating for two days. So it's like, I can't get my weight where I want it to be.
Speaker 2:Wait. But if you're can you not compete in a division if you're too light?
Speaker 1:Oh, no. I can. Yeah. I can be in the two eight. It I could be a hundred and ninety pounds.
Speaker 2:I'll just be
Speaker 1:I'll just be 10 pounds lighter than everybody. I don't want that. I know it's stupid because it's white belt and I feel like all the people who really do jujitsu and actually know jujitsu are probably like chuckling at me like I'm cutting weight for a white belt tournament. But I take everything I do very seriously. You know this about me.
Speaker 1:I don't I don't mess around.
Speaker 2:So Yeah. Well, I'm glad you're alive and I'm shocked that you're just as good as you are today.
Speaker 1:I am too. I couldn't believe I didn't wake up in the night. Like, I thought the first round of morphine only lasted like an hour.
Speaker 2:I don't
Speaker 1:know if they didn't do very much, but I started having pretty serious pain after an hour, hour and a half, something like that. So when they gave it to me last night, I mean, we came straight home and I went to bed trying to go to bed while I still had it in my system. I but I expected I'd wake up in the night with serious pain and and just have a rough night. I slept so good. It's probably the best I've slept in a while.
Speaker 1:I don't know what that's about. Morphine? I don't know. Yeah. I just need morphine every night.
Speaker 1:That's all.
Speaker 2:That's gonna be a new thing. You should
Speaker 1:make a aid.
Speaker 2:You should make a threat on morphine.
Speaker 1:Oh, Jesus. People are using morphine so wrong. Oh, man. I won't I won't do that.
Speaker 2:Do you ever in situations like this, do you ever think about how all these painkillers are, like, somewhat of a recent invention? And you imagine people in the civil war, like, getting their leg amputated and they're, like, here's some whiskey and, like, a a belt to bite on. And just like how
Speaker 1:Like we are not the same species as those people. Like the things they went through.
Speaker 2:That is just crazy. And then the other side of it is, I also think about if I like play back my life without, like, any kind of modern medicine, I would have died, like, eight times already.
Speaker 1:Oh, for real? You've had some, like, close calls? Or I guess I don't think about modern medicine at all.
Speaker 2:It's Just just think about, like, food poisoning.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've ever had food poisoning.
Speaker 2:Really? You've never, like, gotten sick and thrown up or?
Speaker 1:I've gotten sick and thrown up. I guess maybe it was food poisoning.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know. Like, anything that lasted, like, more than a couple day like like a two day food poisoning. Maybe that's when I get sick that often.
Speaker 1:I I remember having the flu a lot growing up or, like,
Speaker 2:cold. Oh, even that. That probably would have killed you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I guess, yeah. A lot of people died from the flu.
Speaker 2:Like like beyond just, the illness itself, it's like imagine okay. So I think about the food poisoning thing. Right? I at least have constant access to water and like other stuff Yeah. That I can eat that I can stomach and like keep in my stomach.
Speaker 2:If I didn't have access to that, think I would have just died of dehydration or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. Yeah. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:It's crazy. Like, I would yeah. I I wouldn't have made it. I'm like, the people that made
Speaker 1:it back then,
Speaker 2:man, they must have been like just They dodged
Speaker 1:a lot
Speaker 2:of bullets. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Yeah. Did they just never get sick or they just had really good immune systems?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I guess maybe society was also simpler in a way where where, like, I'm getting illnesses carried over from China. Like, there's, like, you know?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. The globalization of, like, how much we're spreading stuff. That's a good point too. We need all the modern medicine.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there probably is a good simplicity to it stuff back then. But even then, it's just like even like eyesight. Eyesight's another big one. Like, if you had bad eyesight, you were just a useless person.
Speaker 2:And, like, there's no room for that, really.
Speaker 1:So I saw this thing about it's like an anti aging expert doctor guy.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But he they're working in some university lab and they've they've, like, been regenerating sight in mice, which is like a first.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:They've no one's ever been able to, like, repair eye stem cell or eye what are they called? The nerve, the ocular
Speaker 2:nerves. Optic nerve. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Nobody's ever been able to repair that, but they've got some treatment that's working in mice. They're, like, turning blind mice to where they can see. But it all came out of this research around, like, making cells reverse aging Mhmm. And, like, these things that happen inside of cells.
Speaker 1:Man, you learn anything about, like, cellular biology, that'll blow your mind. Just like what's going on inside our body and these trillions of cells. It's just nuts.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But there's like hope for that, I guess. People who are blind being able to see maybe someday.
Speaker 2:I know it's not a 100% situations, but yeah, they have the sight and the hearing restoration stuff. Like, they've made a lot of progress on that. And I think it leads to so many unique opportunities to understand things. I do remember watching this thing about people that had their sight restored after they were like, already like five or six. You can like, watch them learn how to see and understand a lot about how the brain works, they can kind of communicate and you can talk to them and you can teach them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But yeah, like, I think initially it's just a bunch of noise, like, the ability to see a face or a shape. I I So in the in the thing, way they would train the kids is they would have a bunch of overlapping shapes, like a triangle, a square, whatever. And they have to like trace with their finger the outline of the triangle, trace with their finger the outside, outline of a square. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So even though they could physically, like they were getting the data into their eyes, the ability to, like, recognize that shape as a distinct thing, that's like the learning part of
Speaker 1:it. Interesting.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I think that it, like, teaches you a lot about how we learn to see and how you can, like, teach, like, a computer to see and and things like that. Yeah, it's really crazy. Like imagine like babies are probably just like, what the hell, like
Speaker 1:All the information flowing
Speaker 2:in, yeah. It's just like just raw like pixel It's like a raw pixel thing and you can't like make any sense of it. I imagine it's probably like, you know those these were big in the nineties. You remember those like images that were like, I think they're called stereogram images or something?
Speaker 1:Oh, like magic eye.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You it just looked like a bunch of noise but then if you stared at it and like focused in the right way, you would see the image.
Speaker 1:What was it? How did that work? What were we doing with our eyes? There was this weird thing you had to kinda cross them a little bit or something?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like kind of focus you had to adjust the focal, what you were focused on and then somehow that would I don't know how it worked but I I bet that's how it probably feels Yeah. For a baby.
Speaker 1:As a baby. What if we could remember everything, like, going all the way back? I wonder what kind of memories Oh,
Speaker 2:good that we can't.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Probably. There's some traumatic stuff when you're a baby. Yeah. No.
Speaker 1:Sight is, like, the most impressive of the senses. Right? Like, in terms of brain processing power, everything I've heard, like, the fact that we can see.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I think like other animals don't but of course, animals can see it's a big part of it. But I feel like like my cats and my dog, I feel like they weight sight less than some of their other senses where they're like, it's a lot more smell or sound based. Yeah. We got that.
Speaker 2:So I think humans are pretty different in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I've listened to I I don't remember. It was Carpathi talking about the Tesla autopilot two point o stuff or I don't know if it's two point o, but when they move to, like, raw photon data Mhmm. They're training models off that stuff instead of, like, actually turning it into an image and then training models. That's wild.
Speaker 1:It's like basically making it a human brain at this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's I mean, their approach has always been interesting. It's like a it's like a complete gamble, but if they're right, they just crush everyone else. And the fact that they're so their whole thing is they don't use LiDAR, so they only use cameras.
Speaker 1:They went to only sight, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Which is obviously a lot harder, theoretically possible because humans rely on just sight. And it basically knocks the cost down by like like $10,000 a car or something when you don't have those Yeah. And and Ledar has gotten cheaper but if they do pull it off, then suddenly every other approach is just
Speaker 1:Too expensive.
Speaker 2:They just have like a, I don't know, like a 30% margin benefit of every other approach. Yeah. Yeah. So that that is like an interesting gamble. And it makes sense because it's one of those things I mean, I think Elon Musk companies tend to go for the the all or nothing thing.
Speaker 2:And if they win, then it's just like, oh, we're now like a 100 times better.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Walter Isaacson's book, Elon's biography came out. I'm going to listen to it. I don't know if that makes me something.
Speaker 2:I don't know. People people get
Speaker 1:so offended if you, yeah, if you, like, mention Elon Musk. But I I've listened to, like, every Walter Isaacson book. Like, literally, he's my favorite.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He's great. I've only ever listened to Steve so Steve Jobs book by him was the first audiobook I ever listened to. And I was like, this was cool. I like audiobooks.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I haven't listened to anything else. I did find interesting. Just listened to Walter Isaacson, the Steve Jobs one. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So we were like kind of reminiscing on some of the Steve Jobs stuff. It's crazy to me, the thing I kept bringing up was, he's probably the first person at my age where I, like, remember him existing in real life interacting with stuff that was happening and then he, like, became like a myth or like a legend. Yeah. And it's, it's interesting to be able to, like, relate those two things. I definitely, like, miss him a lot.
Speaker 2:I feel like he would with lots of this happening now, like, I would have loved to have his energy around.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Same. Yeah. I I can't, like, hear new Apple releases or or them talk about products and not wonder, like, where he would be at on all of it.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Of course.
Speaker 1:Just like the fur the the thing that's coming in January, the
Speaker 2:Vision?
Speaker 1:The vision. Yeah. Just have to wonder, like, how things would be different if you were still around.
Speaker 2:Are you getting the new iPhone?
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I'm still on, like, a I I heard the announcement. It's like iPhone 15 is the new one?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Fifteen and fifteen
Speaker 1:I'm 12. That's how out of touch I am. Like, didn't realize how out of touch. I thought I was like one behind. I'm three behind.
Speaker 1:My got a 14. Okay. I just don't even know at this point what I get from getting a new
Speaker 2:one. Nothing. It's just okay.
Speaker 1:Nothing.
Speaker 2:I switched to iPhone, what, I think maybe at the end of the year. Yeah. Wasn't that long ago. But I am gonna get the new one. I'm just gonna trade mine in.
Speaker 2:I I realized like, I was just kinda doing all the math and I figured they must do it this way. I think I'm just gonna end up paying a monthly fee for the rest of my life to just have
Speaker 1:a phone. Maybe that's better.
Speaker 2:That's just the way I look at it. I think it simplifies things because
Speaker 1:Yeah. Then you don't feel bad getting the new one because it's just like just
Speaker 2:Yeah. Roll it in And when I give it back to them, I know they're gonna do the most efficient thing possible. Whereas previously, I just have like a stack of phones that are like kind of collecting and I just look at it and I feel bad about just having all this waste.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We always say we're gonna, like, sell ours and we never do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because it's it's too much work. So the easiest way to sell it is to trade it in as soon as you can.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That makes sense. So you just trade in the new one. You take good care of it. You trade So it
Speaker 2:that's gonna be my approach, I think. I want this new one specifically for the USB C thing. I've been complaining about
Speaker 1:this
Speaker 2:for Okay. So
Speaker 1:So that's what you get. Yeah. Yeah. So now I wanna get both of us iPhones and I wanna
Speaker 2:get yeah. I'm like, I'm I'm making both of us upgrades so then we can just have only USB C cables everywhere.
Speaker 1:AirPod Pro, I think they have
Speaker 2:That's new the issue. That's the
Speaker 1:issue yesterday too.
Speaker 2:I was so excited that yesterday I was looking I was looking at my kitchen and then I saw it was the AirPods plugged in
Speaker 1:and I was like, fuck. So we're so gonna need We got us.
Speaker 2:But just one. Just one. That's gonna be the only one. My mouse is officially USB c now charging. My keyboard's USB c, everything.
Speaker 1:No more lightning cables. Yeah. Sounds nice. The the iPhone thing, I do feel bad, like, taking pictures of our kids with my 12 knowing how much better the cameras probably are three phones later. Like, Casey's is newer.
Speaker 1:I feel like her photos are probably better than the ones I take. Mhmm. So that's the one the camera thing usually is the thing that I get suckered into buying a new phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The camera thing is interesting for me because I feel like at this point, and this is maybe completely made up and someone can tell me I'm wrong. But to me, I feel like the raw hardware is like incremental or marginal. And every version, it's just that they're doing like different processing or like they're making because it's it's like it is very stylistically. When you take a picture on your iPhone, it's not like a raw picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's a raw picture plus like the Apple filters or like whatever they're doing to process it.
Speaker 1:They do a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it's like it's like a style thing in a lot of ways. So yeah, like her phone might take better pictures but it might like the hardware might It's help you that more
Speaker 1:that she's better at taking pictures.
Speaker 2:I like take them
Speaker 1:from I take them from like my face up here and it's like down on a 45 degree angle.
Speaker 2:I'm really bad at pictures too. I barely ever take pictures on my phone also. Like, I just don't I just have pictures of Zuko on my phone and nothing else.
Speaker 1:So That's it. So my my photo real is so embarrassing right now because my three year old and Asa went through this a bit too. He's going through the phase where the the the phrase he says, like, a 150 times a day is take a picture. Take a picture. Like, if he builds something, if he eats something, take a picture of it.
Speaker 1:He wants to remember that, for some reason, that thing. Or if he's getting ready to take a bite, like, he won't take a bite of his suit until you take a picture of it. So, like, he gets a picture in its pristine form, and then he takes a bite. And then he'll be like, take another picture. He's just it's all day long.
Speaker 1:We're taking pictures. So my photo reel is just the most random stuff. I don't take real photos anymore. I just take photos for my three year old. Sometimes I pretend, if I'm being honest.
Speaker 1:I just, like, got it. Because he doesn't always ask to look.
Speaker 2:What a betrayal.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I know. Sometimes he calls me on it, though. He'll be like, I'm a see. I'm a see the picture.
Speaker 1:Like, hang on. Let me It's really annoying.
Speaker 2:Well, he's, like, ready for Instagram. I'd be taking pictures of his food.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. There you go. This he's I mean, sometimes I think about it like, oh, he's savoring life. He's capturing every moment. And, like, maybe we should be more like that.
Speaker 2:But, like, I
Speaker 1:don't know. Here's my food, and here's my food after a bite. That's a little much for me.
Speaker 2:I always forget to take it's just not a habit I have. I'm just like
Speaker 1:Yeah. Same.
Speaker 2:I'm just like doing stuff, and I'm like, I did it. And later, I'm like, oh, should have taken a picture of it. So it's just not a thing that never really gotten to the camera stuff. I use my phone this is such like an a v advanced piece of technology. It's like so advanced, so crazy There's really is.
Speaker 2:So many thousands of engineers and hours and whatever and Yeah. Billions of dollars and I just use it for Twitter. It's like I just scroll Twitter. I check Discord and, that's it. There's so many advanced features in it that I just I'm just, like, I don't really understand how the notifications work.
Speaker 2:I don't understand all these, like Oh, yeah. Different modes you can put it in and I I just I just I don't know. I just don't use it all.
Speaker 1:Tons of stuff I won't ever get to. I I do use it pretty simply. It's like I check email. Do you do you actually use email?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm an inbox zero person. I'm always Oh, you are. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I use superhuman. I pay don't even know how much. Too much.
Speaker 1:You pay for email?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I pay for my not if your email my email client. That's how
Speaker 1:Oh, for your email client.
Speaker 2:That's even even crazier.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Man, I I am not an inbox zero person. I am an inbox infinity person, which means I just skim. I look through all their emails, and if I find a good one, I open it. Nice.
Speaker 1:But the rest of it just builds to infinity.
Speaker 2:To me, it's not rational. Like, I don't think my life is materially different than what you're doing but it to me, it's like a measure of how like, every morning if I'm able to do that, I feel like, okay, my life. I got a handle on my life. Like, I'm at least doing this ritual every morning. I'm on top of this
Speaker 1:thing, you know? And I don't. I don't have a handle on my life. And I think part of the problem is I what I don't like about email is it's I can't control who sends me emails.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yes. So I get a lot of garbage, and I'm bad about staying on top of it. I don't unsubscribe. I every time I buy a new thing, I start getting their newsletter, and I never unsubscribe. So it's like my inbox is not a thing I can control.
Speaker 1:I do well, I gave up on controlling it a long time ago and now it just feels like it'll never be recovered.
Speaker 2:Okay. So here is a thing that I've wanted to build forever and never have. So if you're out there, you people out there always talking about here's my favorite tech stack, here's a chance to actually use it
Speaker 1:and
Speaker 2:get Hey, some
Speaker 1:use it.
Speaker 2:Yes. Here's an idea for you. I want you to integrate with Gmail, so like connect my Gmail. Mhmm. Every email that comes in, move it out of my inbox, put it somewhere else.
Speaker 2:At the end of every day, send me one email with the list of all the new senders that sent me stuff. Oh. Then I can approve like, yes, I'm down to get emails from this person, not down for this one, down for this one, not for this one.
Speaker 1:I
Speaker 2:love Then my inbox is only gonna have stuff. It's like a friend request. The first email you sent me is a friend request. I accept it. And then from then on, I get your stuff to my inbox.
Speaker 1:Otherwise It's just like DMs. Yeah. It's like, I want people to build a semi DM if I don't know who they are Yeah. But I wanna filter it. I wanna look through
Speaker 2:And that way, I'll never miss, like, an important cold email from someone because they'll come Yeah. So, like, other other services have this built in like hey.com, they call it the screener or whatever. Yeah, whitelisting. Exactly. It's a whitelisting app.
Speaker 2:It's built into Hey, like it's like a screener. It works this way. But I don't wanna like that built in? Yeah. Don't wanna switch to a different email.
Speaker 2:I think you can build this on top of Gmail where you just if you get an email from someone that I haven't seen before, don't put it in my inbox. People that are white listed let it go through. It's that simple.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2:To build it.
Speaker 1:That seems like it should exist. Yeah. Because a lot of people use Gmail.
Speaker 2:I will build it and I'm gonna someone else build it, I will pay for it. You have one user right Oh,
Speaker 1:for sure.
Speaker 2:Two users right here.
Speaker 1:Right here.
Speaker 2:Two users.
Speaker 1:Well, sign up for the podcast account. You can have one too. There's three.
Speaker 2:Yeah. People always yeah. So people are saying, isn't can you do this with filters and views in Gmail? I have tried using, like, all the features in Gmail, like, using the important thing, all that stuff. I don't want something, like, machine learning AI based.
Speaker 2:I just want an explicit wait list. Like nothing is really gonna is gonna be that. Like it's like you said, every other platform, DMs work that way. So Yeah. Who's gonna do it?
Speaker 2:Someone do it.
Speaker 1:The Gmail, like, stars and important, all of that stuff, I I don't use that either. I used to have, like, a big list start emails and then I realized I never went back and looked at it. It's like bookmarks on Twitter. It was like, I never looked at it again. So
Speaker 2:Yep. Yeah. So that would just fix email, I think, for a lot
Speaker 1:of people. Think so.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I tried to get adam@hay.com. When that wasn't available, I was out on hay.
Speaker 2:Just signed it. Got it really fast. Was it Adam was it Adam Tailwind Adam? Got it.
Speaker 1:I don't think so. Maybe. I don't know. Great question, actually.
Speaker 2:If we had to rank all the Adams on Tech Twitter, like, what's your ranking?
Speaker 1:Oh, unless.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know. There might
Speaker 1:be there might be other Adams I don't know about on Tech Twitter. There are other Adams. But, like, obviously, Wathan is number one. Yeah. Racus is two.
Speaker 2:You think he's out of you?
Speaker 1:Oh, for sure. He's been around a long time. Right? He's like You're calling you're calling him old? No.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying, like, Racus has me on seniority by a lot. And just on interesting tweets. I don't tweet anymore. So, like, how I can't be a figure on tech Twitter if I'm
Speaker 2:not on Twitter. Your ranking is going down.
Speaker 1:But out of your pink,
Speaker 2:I think you were number three maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Probably. I can't think of another prominent Adam. There probably are some, and I'm just forgetting. But I'll take number three.
Speaker 1:Hey, I'm on the podium.
Speaker 2:You know? What's that meme? What's that meme with a guy biting the metal?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Turk just asked if you got me on Blue Sky. Remember Blue Sky? That was fun.
Speaker 2:Blue ski?
Speaker 1:Blue ski?
Speaker 2:Blue ski and threads.
Speaker 1:How's Blue ski doing? Actually, I saw an email that I was accepted.
Speaker 2:I got that too. Was up with that?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I've been on there for months.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Maybe it's a different email address. Yeah. That's funny.
Speaker 1:I hadn't checked Blue Sky in forever, but this is just Threads? Anybody use threads?
Speaker 2:I just opened threads and I was gonna see who's posting on it. So, so I see wait, hang on. They did add a way to see only your following, but it's like, I always like struggle okay. Hit the home button twice. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hit the home button twice. Then you go to following. There we go.
Speaker 1:Hit the home button twice?
Speaker 2:Or just hit the home
Speaker 1:button obvious? Or something like that.
Speaker 2:It's just not obvious. So Jason is still posting on there.
Speaker 1:Wait. Did I have a stroke yesterday? Jason. Jason.
Speaker 2:Jason Langsdorf? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Okay. I just didn't know you knew Jason. Are you and Jason? Are you close with Jason?
Speaker 2:Not not really, but we've interacted.
Speaker 1:Okay. You've interacted. Hey. There's a new NextJazz comp coming. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What you missed
Speaker 2:yesterday while you were dying.
Speaker 1:That's what well, I was like, that's what the we started this first episode of this podcast with NextJazz
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:Comp recap, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Was it
Speaker 1:I think so.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was definitely I remember we we did that terrible stream together where you you kept putting where you kept putting the overlay on top of Yeah. It was
Speaker 1:really bad. Yeah. Next. Js Conf 2022 recap. Look at that.
Speaker 2:Wow. That was that feels like forever ago.
Speaker 1:It does feel like
Speaker 2:forever Do you remember? That was like in the zero interest days. Because remember that crazy
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Remember how, like, insane that party was? Or like, just seemed it seemed like everybody everybody was there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. That was that was October 22 or twenty seventh. So they're having Next. Js Conf win October 26.
Speaker 1:One year later. That's probably one year to the day. Knowing Guillermo Yeah.
Speaker 2:I gonna like say yeah. I gotta say, the past two weeks Guillermo has gotten a lot better at Twitter. He has.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah?
Speaker 2:I I gotta give him
Speaker 1:I didn't think he was bad at Twitter, I guess.
Speaker 2:No. There was a few phases. The first phase was him just getting really aggro and upset and like Okay. I remember that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because he's like I I think at that point they didn't realize that they were like the incumbent now. They were kinda still acting like the underdog but they're bigger than everyone. Yeah. Then there was a phase where he was just posting like deep founder deep founder insights but they were like just not very good. They were just like really basic trivial things.
Speaker 2:In the past two weeks, I'm like Don't
Speaker 1:run out of money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. It's like ship fast. It's important to ship fast. You know, shit like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But in the last two weeks, I have liked a lot of his tweets. Like, they've been funny. A lot them have been funny. I feel like, oh, okay. Like, I think he's learning to be himself and he actually has a personality.
Speaker 2:Because prior to that, I was like, he's just some kind of robot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He seems very, like, ascended. Like, he seems like a better human to me. And I don't mean that condescendingly. Just like I couldn't be as good as Guillermo at life.
Speaker 1:Like, he's just seems very particular and regimented.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. He definitely is. But, you know, it's good to see he's got
Speaker 1:Yeah. I got to check out Twitter and see his his personality. That sounds fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because they launched that v zero thing. Have you seen that?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. I did see that. I mean, I haven't played with it really. Is it good?
Speaker 2:No. We're all on the wait list. We're all pretending like we're we got in, but we're on the wait list. Oh, I
Speaker 1:think I am on the wait list. That's what it was. I thought I was gonna play with it and then I had to get on the wait list.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm sure I could DM someone, but I'm I'm I don't wanna I don't wanna come off desperate, you know? It's like, don't really care. Just get me on whenever you want.
Speaker 1:No big deal.
Speaker 2:No big deal.
Speaker 1:Just like, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's funny. Yeah. But people are playing with it. So what do you have like a sense of like, you you saw it. Does it feel relevant to you?
Speaker 2:Does it feel like this step in the right way?
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess, like, if AI could help me never have to, like, write a form from scratch, I feel like you're good at at front end. Like, you're actually good at, like you can whip up front ends without just wanting end up in a hospital bed
Speaker 2:like I did last night. Like,
Speaker 1:I every time I have to do something on the front end, I just swear I'm never doing it again. Like, actually, like, making a form that does stuff and validation and busy states and all that stuff, I hate it. I feel like you've gotten in, like, a groove, and I feel like your console, the code looks really nice. You know what you're doing. I don't feel like I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:So if it could help me do that, then, yeah, I'm in.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think there's, like, a somewhat popular stack they're optimizing for like React, NextJS, Tailwind, like a bunch of those things. So I can see how Yeah. If you're using that setup. Oh, and also the the ShadCN stuff, like it's component library.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the thing I've been thinking about, and I think a lot of this AI stuff has really made me understand this, which is how much aesthetics are like relative to their scarcity. So there's been like so many phases of this, right? Do you remember when like Bootstrap first came out, like Twitter Bootstrap?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:The day it came out, it looked insanely good. Like so good, so modern. Uh-huh. And it got really popular. And at some point, you look you started looking at Bootstrap and it started looking terrible.
Speaker 2:They looked exactly the same as they looked
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Two years ago, but they just started looking bad. Even though that even though that they look fantastic the day we came out. Yep. They came out. Mid journey, right?
Speaker 2:All those like crazy mid journey images that are like super realistic and stuff. Yeah. Initially, was like, wow, this all looks good. It's definitely for me gotten to a point where I'm like, these look really like cheesy now or like kinda corny, a lot of these images. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I
Speaker 1:know what you mean.
Speaker 2:So it's like, it's so clear to me that everything, no matter how good it is in the moment, just starts to look terrible when it when it becomes like extremely available to everyone. So when I see this stuff in v zero, I'm like, okay, Shot Cn is still new. Mhmm. And it looks really good.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:But now I'm seeing all these designs and I'm like, okay, now it has this like underlying error of like being generated or, like, what I just it just does look cliche. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the thing with design is it is a way to signal high effort. And I think once that kinda goes away, you kinda lose that part of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No, that's a great point. Like, you're not actually putting in the effort and the truth will eventually find you.
Speaker 2:Like, people aren't even people aren't even might not even be aware of it. But subconsciously, think that really is is the key the reason is to spend effort on design.
Speaker 1:It it makes sense that like aesthetic things like, you think of clothing, like style with clothes. You think of, like, home decor. Like, all that stuff is so like, it's fast moving. It's cyclical. It's the thing that looks good today will not look good in ten years, and you can kinda bank on it.
Speaker 1:So it makes sense that there's something about aesthetics Yeah. That don't stay there's not just a best. It's it's always sort of like in the context of the current setting.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Like the like a like the linear homepage, like when that came out, that was amazing but now everyone has that like dark thing with the Yeah. Window that pops up like this and like unblurs. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Everyone has that now and it just starts to look a little bit weird. The other thing though is, on the flip side, there are things that are timeless. I mean, that I just realized that when you said like home furniture. I think Mhmm. There is like an underlying thing of like, there's certain things that are just always gonna look really good.
Speaker 2:Like the freaking Eames chair that everybody has.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Bet you have that Everybody has that? Do you have one of don't know anybody that has one. No. I'd like to get one.
Speaker 1:Casey would not let me spend $5,000 on a chair.
Speaker 2:No. But, like, everyone just gets replicas. Like, no one gets Oh, really?
Speaker 1:Who do you know that has one? Because you said everyone. I've never seen one in the in the flesh, just like in movies and stuff. Have you ever sat in one? I've never sat
Speaker 2:in one. Yeah. Bunch of times. Okay. So here's a crazy thing.
Speaker 2:Bunch of times. We this is the most random thing. One time we were like rerouted through like some airport in Texas because we got like, our flights got messed up or whatever. The lounge there had like a stupid amount of Eames shares like
Speaker 1:What?
Speaker 2:And they were like scat they were like scattered. Like people had moved them around, they were kind of just like scattered all over the place. I mean, they're they're clearly replicas, like very few people really get like a legit The
Speaker 1:real old shirt. The Miller one.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But it's it's like for that a replica is still, like, you know, a thousand plus dollars. It's still, like, a very high quality piece of furniture. Yeah. And, yeah, it's nice.
Speaker 2:It just looks good. It looks good and it's always gonna look good
Speaker 1:and No. It's it's a good looking chair. Yeah. I've definitely considered it at times. Just put one in my corner of my office.
Speaker 2:As I say, I I feel like you would definitely have one. That seems like everything that you would have.
Speaker 1:Things that people spend money on just for the sake of it. Yeah. No.
Speaker 2:But I was saying it's like a timeless piece of whatever.
Speaker 1:So Yeah. No. That's a good point. So what is the equivalent of that in the digital world?
Speaker 2:I don't know if there is. Like, I'm wondering if it is there
Speaker 1:Digital could be different.
Speaker 2:It might be something really unexpected. Like, it might be like Craigslist or like Reddit.
Speaker 1:What about like Apple? They I mean, they haven't really changed their design aesthetic.
Speaker 2:Well, they used be crazy skeuomorphic. Remember?
Speaker 1:Oh, well, yeah. Like, so in their apps. I'm just seeing like the Apple digital, like, web properties, like Oh. The white background. Like, they're kind of always they've been like this for a long time, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I thought that yeah. I think their stuff is
Speaker 1:It's pretty simple.
Speaker 2:Bordering on timeless. Yeah. The skeu the skeuomorphism one though is interesting because I remember at the time, I was really into like getting better design and like nothing looked worse than something skeuomorphic. Yeah. And then someone posted a bunch of pictures recently and I was like, oh, man, that looks kinda good.
Speaker 1:Because Yeah. Where where are we at on that? Cause I feel like it's cyclical. People are like, skeuomorphism is the worst. And then they're like, oh, it's actually kinda nice.
Speaker 1:Where are we at on that cycle?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, I I'm feeling it. I'm feeling it come back. So I'm I'm looking at it. I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2:I I I know what's happening, but I can't help it. Like, it just looks it looks good to me. There's something nice to I
Speaker 1:I know what you mean. Like, the if an Apple icon has, like, a nice, like, felt look to it, I'm
Speaker 2:a sucker for that. Yeah. The old textures. I remember just, like, looking through so many text ures making websites at one point. Just like the whole background be like that little, like you could almost feel it just by looking at it.
Speaker 1:Love it. Can I shift gears, like, lot?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Just I I can't not say something, which I don't wanna I don't wanna be negative. But have you ever played with Svelte?
Speaker 2:No. But they're doing their big announcement. Well, yes, I have played with it and they're doing their big announcement today.
Speaker 1:What's their big announcement today?
Speaker 2:Nobody knows.
Speaker 1:Oh, for real? What timing?
Speaker 2:Exciting announcement. So tell tell us tell us your take on Svelte just for them to, like, you know, make it irrelevant. Well,
Speaker 1:look. I mean, this week is the first I've played with Svelte. So I have literally, like, days of experience with Svelte. So you can just ignore everything I say. Okay.
Speaker 1:And I know people are really passionate about Svelte. So, like, as soon as I say anything negative, I'm gonna get attacked. But the this is just a little thing. I just feel like I'm getting hit in the head with transitions and animations everywhere I turn in the docks.
Speaker 2:It's like,
Speaker 1:Svelte. It's good at animation. Motion. Transition. It's just constantly I'm, like, trying to learn how to do basic state stuff, and it's like, oh, but did you know you can use this animation thing?
Speaker 1:It's pretty cool. Like, the advanced go to the docs. Advanced felt, the first, like, three sections are about animation. I'm not even kidding you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean So apparently That's funny, but I was gonna say there's there's an explanation for that. Like, do you remember those crazy things that the that team would build?
Speaker 1:The visualizations? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like those articles were insanely yeah. Insanely impressive. So I get Yeah. Why that there's an obsession with that. Yes, Scott.
Speaker 2:No. Was gonna say, I think the thing today is they're making it more like solid and they're adding, like, signals and stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. Cool. So the reason I use Svelte is so we're we're rebuilding this huge site that's like very page driven. Just lots of it's very multipage. Okay?
Speaker 2:I don't
Speaker 1:care if multipage isn't a thing. It's very multipage. So there's just lots of pages, very little interactivity. But the bits of interactivity that there are, it feels real bad just writing Videl. Js.
Speaker 1:Like, that's what we started doing, and we've still got a lot of it. But at some point, it starts to feel like, man, it'd be really nice to use a little more modern front end JavaScript stuff here. And I felt like Svelte Svelte, Svelte, I felt like it spiritually aligns with our, like, just progressively enhancing little bits of the page because it's compiled. Right? There's no runtime, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It just seemed like to me if I, like, throw Solid in there or worse, throw React in there, it just feels like such overkill for, like, an avatar menu. Like, I don't I don't feel like we need this very big runtime framework.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But then I don't I don't actually know how much I'm gaining using something like Svelte versus Solid in terms of bundle sizes, in terms of this spiritual alignment that I I feel. Do you think Svelte is a good use case for that, or is it no? Like, just use Svelte if you're using SvelteKit and it's not a sprinkle in kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think with these frameworks, you should just go with the API that you feel makes sense to you. So because and the reason I say that is if you look at so yes, Svelte, they like the premise of Svelte is a compiler can figure out all the when this happens, do this other thing build time so that there's no, like you said, there's no there's no, like, reactive runtime that needs to exist. But at a certain size, you end up duplicating a lot of stuff where a runtime would actually end up being smaller. So it's kind of like Yeah.
Speaker 2:Both of these I mean, realistically, the comparisons between Solid and Svelte, I think the other ones are not really relevant, at least for this type of thing. Like they're both written by such like good authors like they're both like so optimized and so excellent that I feel like from that angle, like, you're not gonna go wrong. So it just comes down to like which model clicks for you better.
Speaker 1:So I will say, getting into Svelte, it feels so foreign to me having come from like a React background. I feel like Solid would feel much more natural just like to write a solid component. Is there something about so I keep saying progressive enhancement. Is that even a thing anyone should care about? Should I just forget about caring about that?
Speaker 1:Like, we have some very simple, like, forms on the page. And right now, we're just posting. Like, it just re because it's not even, like, staying on that page when you post. So for, like, off flows, it's gonna end up redirecting. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't care if it's just a form and it has a post action and whatever. But then if I wanna sprinkle in, like, some validation and I wanna come in and say, well, with JavaScript, I can make this experience a little better. Is that, like, a thing that I should actually care about, or should I just make the form in JavaScript, prevent default, and just, like, do the thing on click or on submit? Like, do do you have opinions on progressive enhancement as a concept?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think for the I tend to go to kind of what you said. I tend to go to both extremes. So it's actually the exact same situation. So we're using the same auth thing.
Speaker 2:For the login form for, the console Mhmm. It's just a form post and then post somewhere else and redirects. I don't even bother doing any JavaScript stuff. I did throw in some validation in there but it's not it's just the HTML like input attributes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's what I'm using like
Speaker 2:the email,
Speaker 1:the built in,
Speaker 2:yeah yeah. Exactly. So I'm like, that's that's good enough for this. And then because I'm just using like bare bones Solid, I don't have like a really solid framework to do real progressive enhancement where there's like a nice unified API, nice form component Yeah. That like can switch between both modes.
Speaker 2:So I just go to the other extreme where I'm just like I still use like form data and I try to like use all the native stuff Yeah. But realistically, it's It's gonna
Speaker 1:just JavaScript interaction.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's just MD JavaScript. So I think for me that's fine. Part of me does wish that I had some of those things in there but I don't think it's rational. I think it's just like, I I just know that I'm technically doing something wrong so I feel bad about it but it's not really gonna make a difference for anyone.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Everyone's got JavaScript running. I don't know. That that's safe to say. Right?
Speaker 2:Like Well, the argument is that, until your JavaScript loads, everyone is a no JavaScript user.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. Right?
Speaker 2:So so again, for us, behind like a like a b to b app behind a login, like, we don't really have to worry about that. Like nothing is gonna work until the JavaScript loads. So there's no progressiveness there to begin with. But, yeah, for you guys like, let's say there's like a button and it takes five seconds to become interactive like how
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah yeah. I gotcha.
Speaker 2:But then again, you you're using Astro so yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess it still won't work until the JavaScript loads. That might matter for you guys, No, but yeah. I'm just thinking like, what's so you're talking about like the avatar menu, so like when you're logged in you hit the button and then like some kind of drop down? How well, that's like more of like a CSS thing, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, you could do it, like, with checkbox and CSS states. It's just that there are some benefits, think, to dipping into JavaScript for accessibility. It's just, like, I don't wanna build all that by hand, and there's, like, not Vanilla JavaScript. Turns out there's not Vanilla JavaScript component libraries. There's not Vanilla JavaScript anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It everything assumes you're using a framework or, like, even a meta framework. Yeah. So it's very difficult to find, like, I just need good like, want Radix. I want it for Vanilla JavaScript so bad.
Speaker 1:I just wanna build, like maybe that's dumb, though. Maybe I I feel like the infatuation with Vanilla JavaScript is maybe my problem. I should just, like, forget that and say but if you saw our use case, I feel like our use case, we really don't need a client side, like, full framework because we just do so little. There's literally like three little things on the page that have any JavaScript involved.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I do think you might be a little biased in that your framework experiences react, which is very heavy. Because I think both with Solid and Svelte, I find that the framework kinda disappears. Like with Solid, oftentimes I'm just like document query selector things and like doing like very vanilla JavaScript. The only part time I dip into Solid is for the templating.
Speaker 2:So like, I wanna use JSX and for like, okay, if I do need some reactive state, which again, oftentimes, like, the state just lives in the DOM so I don't really need to do that. Like, built like like combo boxes or like or like our command bar. Very little Solid involved in that. Like the Solid builds that that I use the JSX part to build a template but then from there, like, moving stuff around, I'm just querying the DOM and like activating things and adding attributes and stuff that we used to do in jQuery days.
Speaker 1:And Astro makes it so easy to just, like, load a component from one of these client libraries, hydrate it. Like, it that experience with Astro is really great.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think you should I think you should use one and you shouldn't feel too bad because it's not, like I said, both these options are like so optimized. I don't think that it's really gonna create any kind of burden.
Speaker 1:So let me throw another very like esoteric I don't know. I forgot we're on a podcast here, but now I'm just asking you questions. But I was talking with engineer on my team yesterday about the situation where we're on the client where we need to fetch session information to do some stuff with it on the client. But there's, like, multiple components now that need that. Well, there's just two.
Speaker 1:But there's two components that need it, and it's like, woah, global state an app without like a framework. What do you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. That's I mean, that's I think the limitations of at least Astro as it existed until this Mhmm. This new stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh, wait. In the new stuff, what do I do? Is there something I'm not thinking about here, So
Speaker 2:if you if if you have global state on a single page, like, have the whole NanoStore thing. Right?
Speaker 1:Oh, they have what is this? This sounds perfect. NanoStore? Thank you for saying those words.
Speaker 2:There there's a qualifier qualifier here, here though. Though. Okay. Okay. So So NanoStore is how you you can just create little pieces of
Speaker 1:Share your state between islands. This is exactly what I need.
Speaker 2:Yes. So that's what you that's what you would use.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:But if you're using Solid, if Solid is the component the framework you choose for your components.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:It makes no sense to use NanoStor because Solid ships with their own primitives that work better. Like, have their own store concept, but the same thing. But, yeah, for for if you have these components, you need to sync data. Yeah. The NanoStor's thing is
Speaker 1:This is awesome. How do I stay on top of all the cool stuff?
Speaker 2:I just found that from the Astro docs.
Speaker 1:Like, when you were looking in the Astro docs just for funsies?
Speaker 2:No. I built I built something with Astro, like, Yeah.
Speaker 1:You oh, okay.
Speaker 2:I forget. Is while ago.
Speaker 1:Don't know if you reached for Ashro. I thought you were never gonna be a multi pager.
Speaker 2:No. Because we we have our little small business, right, plate?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm blinking. I I knew this.
Speaker 1:I knew this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we had some something similar where like like a cart, like the cart status of your cart, the state of the cart needs to be visible in multiple components. We just do that in there. But the issue is when you navigate, that gets blown away because it's a full page refresh so
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we could store it
Speaker 2:in local storage or like Yeah. We could
Speaker 1:like Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or you can use the Astro's like new SPA type stuff but
Speaker 1:So how yeah. So we've played with the view transition stuff. That's what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Right? There's view transitions but there's also like SPA mode where, like, navigating between two pages doesn't do a page refresh.
Speaker 1:What? How am I not I feel feel like I'm an astro power user and I don't know half the things you can do. Astro what'd you say? What other word did I
Speaker 2:don't know what they call it. I mean, Ba mode? Did you go check the blog post for three point o? If you just read that, it has like
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:It mentions all of these things.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'll I'll I'll do that. Yeah. Sorry. I when I said I'll
Speaker 2:do that, literally started doing it
Speaker 1:right now. I should probably not do that right now. We do need to get off at some point.
Speaker 2:Just hear for yeah. But yeah, I again, like, I don't that stuff is kind of like got too complicated for me to like stay on top of. Like, the three pointer Yeah. There's a lot of cool stuff in there but I'm just like, this is
Speaker 1:a lot. Like, I don't think
Speaker 2:I can digest this right now.
Speaker 1:You're gonna stick with your your spas.
Speaker 2:My spas and then I'm still really liking direction Solid Start is going. It's taking a while before it's gonna like really come out and impact the industry but what I love about it is you have, these two extremes on the team, right? You have Ryan who is very, you know, the classic like framework creator, like super Yeah. Into like all these little micro things. And then you have Dave who, he is like the perfect person to build the last mile.
Speaker 2:Like he has a consulting company, he does real projects for real clients, really focus on enterprise things, like really tries to get all the things that you need. But he has a clear vision on all the things that you need to have something like this actually go big beyond just like our little bubble. So there's like this great balancing force of of the two of them where Ryan likes that because Dave does all the work that Ryan is not interested in. But yeah, I'm like, again, it's a it's an uphill battle and there's a lot of things in the way but when I see that team, I'm like, oh, that actually reflects what I if I if I could like create a team that like is building a front end framework, that's like what they would look like. That's what that would look like.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Look at some of these other teams, like they're all obviously impressive people across the board and all these places, but, I definitely am missing that like, oh, as boring as it sounds like building for enterprise, enterprise type use case. Yeah. Kind
Speaker 1:of context. Yeah. Yeah. Informing the decision making. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I have more questions now about Solid
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm a little out of the loop.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean? No one else will know what I mean. That's fine. I'm a little out of loop. Is is Solid Start still doing anything with Astro?
Speaker 1:Or is Tanner doing anything with Astro? What's that
Speaker 2:story? So, there was the history of Solid Start was they built it on VEET, then they were like, we're wasting so much time with like adapters for like Vercel and SST and Netlify and like, why are we redoing that work? Let's just try to build on top of someone else. So initially, they were exploring doing on top of ASTRO. They did get a prototype working, but then they chose to go with Nitro, which is the from the Nuxt community.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. What? Do you know what Nitro is?
Speaker 1:I've heard of Nitro.
Speaker 2:Yes. No. This world is just like Jeez. Like layers on top of layers on top of layers. But I imagine this
Speaker 1:probably would have Like felt a Yeah. Is it similarly on top of Vite?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Vite is the core. Then Nitro adds a bunch of useful things on on top of Vite, like all the adapters Uh-huh. Deployed to different places. You also have, like, like, the storage engine to, like, store data and cache stuff.
Speaker 2:So kinda like the
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Bare things that a lot of these frameworks do have in common.
Speaker 1:And it
Speaker 2:allows Solid Start to go back to being more of like a minimal thing than a meta framework. It's just like a thing that sits on top of of Nitro. So Nuxt three is also built on top of Nitro.
Speaker 1:Nuxt is the the Vue thing.
Speaker 2:The Vue version. They have the Vue meta framework that will have a Nitro. That's what they built it for. Tanner is still doing his thing, his React based meta framework on top of Bling? The Is
Speaker 1:it called Bling?
Speaker 2:Something else entirely. Oh. Yeah. Is just a way to, like, statically extract some stuff.
Speaker 1:So it's an actual project that's, like, still has a To
Speaker 2:be honest, Bling Bling should be invisible to anyone. No one really should really know what that is. Okay. It should just show up in places that you don't really know what's powered by. So he's doing his own thing which is gonna be a combination of React, a React meta framework on top of Nitro.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I'm excited about this because, again, then we can just support Nitro really really well and then we support Yeah. Both Nuxt Yeah. And I'm still waiting for someone to do a re I mean, it might be Tanner. I don't know how much he's gonna do the RSC stuff but I'm waiting for someone to do like a Vite based React meta framework.
Speaker 2:So Remix, the Remix is also doing an RSC thing. And I actually I'm really excited for their take. Ryan Florence explained to me like, it's actually he's like, the way it's positioned now is it's really a replacement for Express, but it can do like the front end stuff really really well. And I kinda like that thinking like it's Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:Like a lot of people use Express and there's no reason not to use this in the And same you just get like a much better front end experience. But that they're not they're like going the other way of like trying to make it really really low tooling. So they're, like, just they're not even requiring a bundler anymore, that you can just do raw Remix code and you don't even need to bundle it. You can't use a bundler. But so they're not building on top of Vite or anything like that.
Speaker 2:They're going the other way.
Speaker 1:So you wanna see you wanna see a React meta framework built on top of Vite. It's not too late for for Next. Right?
Speaker 2:Let's just No. It is too late for Next. They they can't No.
Speaker 1:Just abandon all the
Speaker 2:Webpack stuff. The Turbo Pack stuff. Just Just breaking change for everyone. Oh, they're so big, man. Like
Speaker 1:They are. Are they always gonna be so big?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Think so. Like like
Speaker 1:that size of Just when
Speaker 2:you achieve default status, well, you're the default for something, it's just impossible to compete with. It's like so annoying for everyone else. Think about how annoying it is for remakes. Like they can do everything 10 times better, it will not it's just so hard to displace them. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I
Speaker 1:didn't even mean that like Vercel was doing anything wrong. I just wondered like from the zero interest rate phenomenon standpoint, like, will all organizations get smaller or is this sustainable?
Speaker 2:Maybe it's no.
Speaker 1:It's fine.
Speaker 2:I mean, in terms of well, when I say big, just want in
Speaker 1:terms of usage. Oh, I was talking, like, how big of an organization and just how big the production is and how big everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Don't know about that. I think that can probably shrink. But, yeah, usage wise, it's just like, if look at the numbers, it's like, they're still growing like What numbers do you have? We we always look at NPM trends which is, the downloads So per
Speaker 1:Next. Js specifically you're talking?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's like every chart of front end frameworks doesn't include Next. Js because then it just makes it so everyone's, like, one single line at the bottom and then
Speaker 1:And then on top of that, like, Vercel, you can deploy AstroSites. You can deploy all these other things. All these other frameworks you can deploy to Vercel. I wonder, are there any numbers on that? Like
Speaker 2:I think okay. So more and this isn't crazy, but I guess it's a crazy founder type of thing I finally have tapped into. I think we can beat Vercel in terms of number of deployments. And deploy Yeah. Stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think that it's a it's a hard it's gonna it's very low probability, it's exceeding but there is I do see a path to
Speaker 1:There's a path.
Speaker 2:Having more Next. Js deployments outside of Vercel than inside Vercel. I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't already true. Because like, all these big companies use Next. Js, a lot of them do.
Speaker 2:A lot of them don't deploy on Versatile, they're probably deploying like some kind of shitty container in their infrastructure. So I don't know what the actual numbers are but, I think if we can get to parity on we can get to parity on some of like the quality of life things that Vercel has. We we can beat them in other places that are like kind of important. Like already on the performance side like, it's weird. I don't understand why this is the case but Open Next appointment is faster than a standard Vercel Next.
Speaker 2:Js appointment. I do understand why, but I did the benchmarks Yeah. And it's significantly different.
Speaker 1:So Yeah. I feel like the enterprise angle too, like, I feel like people are much more likely to deploy into their own AWS account at certain scale than use Vercel.
Speaker 2:So that's why I think already there might be more deployments out of Vercel than inside Vercel. And, yeah, we just like don't have information on that data. And then there's the other side of things where it's just hard for them when they have to host everyone's sites. Whereas like, if you think about us, we technically get for everyone that deploys an XJS site through us, we leverage AWS as free tier. We're not paying for the fact that you're deploying through us.
Speaker 2:If we want to implement like something that's kind of compute intensive, that's fine. They're just paying for it. Each user opts into that feature. We're not responsible for the cost across our whole like like the warmer thing we built for Next. Js which a few people get upset about.
Speaker 2:Vercel could never implement a warmer because like they have to do that for they have to pay the cost for that. But then for us it's, you know, it's it's different. So I think we can beat them in some of those situations and mixing in like we are starting to see a lot of people mix in other constructs with their NextJS. So like adding in a queue, adding a database, all these
Speaker 1:So they're like the whole picture of app development. Like all the other things you need.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And like, again, Vercel is adding those things or adding a database. Right? But it's like it's a very different type of experience. And again, they're liable for the free tier on each one of those things.
Speaker 1:So I mean, startups startups build on AWS. It's just what they do. And it just feels weird to me to think that there's some world where they won't. Like, I just, if I were betting on things, I'm betting on startups continuing to build on AWS.
Speaker 2:There's this overwhelming force you have to work against which is every startup that like is somewhat competent has access to like $50,000 free or whatever the Yeah. I forgot what or whatever. All those things. But your thing has to either be billable through AWS or has to be like so much better Yeah. That you're willing to pay outside of it.
Speaker 2:Which happens sometimes. Like I think I saw someone from Railway tweet today that, they had a customer that just turned down like thousands of dollars from Azure to deploy through them, which is, you know, good for them for pulling But that also it's Azure. I would turn down millions of dollars from Azure as well.
Speaker 1:It's funny.
Speaker 2:But it's it's just hard to compete with that. So that's why I'm like, I'm not saying we're guaranteed but I see a path that if we can make some of the infrastructure like 10 times better just by moving off of CloudFormation and then CDK and all the all that stuff that we're exposing to
Speaker 1:currently. You are moving off of it? Still planning?
Speaker 2:We it probably will be the next big effort that if we're able to kick off another big effort in the next couple months Yeah. It'll probably be figuring out what our angle on that is. Whether it's supporting a different deployment engine, what we currently have, whether it's like targeting a whole new market with like a new product, like we don't know what it's gonna gonna be. But if I think about just the NextJS user, how good can I make that experience? Is that there's nothing like a 10 x gap from where where it is today to where it could be.
Speaker 2:So we if I think if we close that, you know, we could see a lot more usage.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's awesome. I realized now we're at the point of the podcast where I'm trying to do other things. So we should probably Okay. Should probably the things that I'm trying to do are for the podcast.
Speaker 1:I just realized I didn't tweet out that we have new episodes. I think I've missed, like, the last two. You're gonna fire me at
Speaker 2:some point.
Speaker 1:You're gonna find
Speaker 2:an actual podcast. Die yesterday. So I was like, okay. I guess I gotta take it out my own.
Speaker 1:Carried on? If I died, would you have carried on with the podcast just like guests?
Speaker 2:Well, I would would have definitely, like, tried to create a ton of attention using your desk. Oh, yeah. Sympathy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You have my permission.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I know you'd appreciate that.
Speaker 1:A farewell episode where you, like, make a memorial. Yeah. Yeah. A little montage. Feel like before a 100 episodes, I feel like that'd be over the top.
Speaker 1:Once we've got a 100 episodes in, I feel like then, I there's like
Speaker 2:know who you are. Like, outside of the podcast, like, you know, you've been around for a while. So I think I think you've around for a while.
Speaker 1:Not as long as Adam Rackus, though. I haven't been around that long.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Was like, I have to find a new host or a new co host. Yeah. Who would
Speaker 1:who who list real quick, last thing. Who would your new host be?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Another Adam?
Speaker 2:I think oh, here's
Speaker 1:a know
Speaker 2:what we would do? We would have, like, an American Idol style competition to figure out Yes. The next host of tomorrow. Fm.
Speaker 1:I love it. Oh, man. Yeah. I I'm trying to think of who good candidates. There's probably oh, no.
Speaker 1:I don't wanna think about this because there's probably people that would be way better at this than
Speaker 2:Can you actually just die? Like, this sounds like a good idea.
Speaker 1:Hey, stop it. Yesterday, there's a moment in the middle of the extreme pain where I was like, if I die, at least I won't hurt right now.
Speaker 2:This this is I know.
Speaker 1:I would have done anything. It like, literally anything to get rid of that pain in that moment. It was so bad.
Speaker 2:Isn't it crazy to, like, in that moment, you're probably like, oh, okay. I'm, like, learning. This is how I die. Like, I was curious about how I'm gonna die and, like, this is Yeah. How it's gonna be.
Speaker 2:Like, didn't expect this, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. That's a good point. I I guess I didn't have any thoughts like that. Okay.
Speaker 2:Well, next time.
Speaker 1:I was I was sobbing. I was, like, just literally uncontrollably sobbing in a chair in the hospital. And I'm like, can I lay down? Someone give me a bed. Aren't there beds in our in hospitals?
Speaker 1:Sucked.
Speaker 2:Crybaby.
Speaker 1:And on that note, stop it. I was a little, like I realized my boys like, Casey had to drive me, which we should have gotten I should have just done the ambulance thing because it took so long. And every time she accelerated, it was just such
Speaker 2:Oh, no.
Speaker 1:It was awful. But the boys, like, we just had to, like, everybody jump in the car and go. And they I I thought I thought, like, they're gonna be terrified just seeing me in so much pain. I've never, like, been like that or just I felt like I was dying. And they were fine.
Speaker 1:Were totally fine. RT is, like, in the hospital. He's like, oh, look at this thing. I'm, like, dying in a chair, and he's just, like, amazed at what's in the room. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah. No. They were good. Today, they woke up bidding, like, no special attention. Not like, oh, we almost lost our dad.
Speaker 1:He's here. Yeah. It's just like, hey, dad. Okay.
Speaker 2:One so one last story before we end it. Yeah. So I think this this fear this certain type of fear just, like, sets in at a certain age where like, obviously, it was way scarier for your wife than it was for your kids. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Sure. But there's this funny thing that happened recently where, so Zuko, he's a he's like one and a half now. Wow. Never been afraid of thunder, never been afraid of fireworks, nothing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Completely randomly, last week, thunderstorm, super scared, started shaking, like, and like, it was just really scary, like, following me around. Now now when there was thunder, like, he's, like, he's kind of stressed. I'm like, I remember this happening to me. I remember feeling, like, not afraid of anything and just randomly just having fear of, like, mortality and then, like, just kinda afraid of of, like, going fast in a car and, like, all these, like, things I just never thought about before.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's it's funny the things that we develop. But as kids, they're just oblivious to the world.
Speaker 2:They don't have anything to fear. It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:You haven't had Zuko for a year and a half. Right? With how old was he when you got him?
Speaker 2:I've had him for a it'll be a year in October. Are you kidding me? I got him right when I got him right when the podcast started or so.
Speaker 1:I can still yeah. I can still picture that picture of him, like, laying in the floorboard of the car or whatever. Was a plane. I don't remember.
Speaker 2:It's a car. Yeah. So I
Speaker 1:remember the tweet. Yeah. Yeah. What would we do without Twitter? All my memories are
Speaker 2:on Twitter. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Not all of them. Just the ones
Speaker 2:Just the good ones.
Speaker 1:With you
Speaker 2:guys. Yeah. Just the good ones.
Speaker 1:I mean, my family, I
Speaker 2:have lots of good memories.
Speaker 1:You should see my photo reel. Alright. Alright. This is a long one. Turns out I almost die and, like, we just Come
Speaker 2:back to life. Yeah. Now you really appreciate life.
Speaker 1:Back to life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright.
Speaker 2:Alright. See you next. Yeah.
