Rust, Go, C#, and Why Oppenheimer and Star Wars Can Both Be Good
So pivoting completely differently, different direction.
Speaker 2:Well, actually, before you pivot, I'm gonna pee.
Speaker 1:Okay. Pee and pivot.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Pee and pivot.
Speaker 1:Oh, the other thing that happened this week was, Bram Bram died. Oh, yeah. Creator of Vim? Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I didn't do any Wikipedia deep dives and I didn't I wasn't aware of Bram. Could you tell me, like, was the so V already existed and then he created Vim. What's the story? Who who was Bram?
Speaker 1:I don't I don't know much about it. I just remember his name forever and that he created Vim and he was like the BDFL for it.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, what's that?
Speaker 1:Benevolent Dictator for Life. Oh, okay. It's the I didn't highest know there was an actor. That you could you can acquire.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's like an official thing that that people say?
Speaker 1:No, it's not an official thing. I think there's a bunch of projects that run this way like Linux has Linus who's a BDFL. Yep. There's a few projects that run this way and it's like a great example of technically, the best short term form of leadership is a dictator that's very competent. It doesn't work long term because a person that succeeds them is usually their idiot kid.
Speaker 1:Love it. In this case, I don't think that's how it's gonna it's gonna pass. But it's it's a very effect. It's a a bunch of projects that are that have lasted, like, decades have have operated this way. I mean, like Linux is such a crazy impactful thing and it runs this way, so
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean, thought I about it for a little bit and was like, know what, this is like maybe one of, it's like kind of a unique moment for me because, and probably for a lot of people our age, because this is someone that, you know, has had like a crazy impact on my literal everyday life for Yeah. A very long time. It's like he made the thing that helps me make money, that helps me get all the things that I want in my life. Yeah. And so yeah, it's like, oh, this person died.
Speaker 1:I don't really know anything about them but like deeply impactful to me. Even though I've like really never thought about them or like know much about them or converse with them or anything.
Speaker 2:So I feel a little guilty sharing similar sentiments given that I've been using them for like seven months. But it's been a very impactful seven months for me. Can I say that? I mean, I did spend fifteen years as a software developer not using them.
Speaker 1:You tapped into like a whole community and like, you know, you met people
Speaker 2:I did. I've met people. Yeah. So many close relationships. It's such an interesting community.
Speaker 2:Like, when you think about just, like, editing text files more efficiently, such an interesting thing to have such a, like, passion around. But it is one of the things I'm more into now in terms of my craft than anything. Like, I'm more excited about learning new VIM things. It just gave me something at this stage of my career that I was just kinda bored. I mean, with, like Yeah.
Speaker 2:The normal everyday software development stuff. So yeah. No. It it has been really a a really great year or whatever it's been of of learning VIM, getting to know all these people that are super into it, diving into the NeoVIM world. Yeah.
Speaker 2:No. It really has. I I kind of like I I just feel bad like you've been using it for ten years, and, like, you can say these very nice, kind words about Bram. And I'm like, Similar but shorter.
Speaker 1:Well, okay. You you you can rephrase it as despite only having used it for seven months, he's managed to make an impact in my life.
Speaker 2:That's a great way. Thank you. That's just Yes. That's what I meant to say.
Speaker 1:Flipped it. Flipped it, turned it upside down and now it's good.
Speaker 2:And now it's good. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think it a unique experience and I think this is the first time I'm experiencing something like this where someone I didn't know died but it like weirdly feels personal. And imagine as you get older, like this obviously starts to happen more and there's like artists or musicians or whatever that die. Think about, like, Christopher Nolan who, like, whose movies I absolutely love. And like, one day, there's gonna be, like, the last Christopher Nolan film and he's gonna die at some point and it's gonna, like, deeply affect me. I'm like, damn, that is really crazy.
Speaker 2:That is crazy. I was just thinking the other day, I don't know why I was thinking this. But I thought, like, I need to look up what celebrities have died in the last year because I bet there's a bunch of people that I'd be like, Yeah. I just don't, like, consume any media to know, like, when that stuff happens. And I know there's been times where it's like you learn two, three years later that somebody died and like, they're never gonna be in another movie?
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It is crazy to think that.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm really shallow and surface level here with your deep connections to humanity. Well, I
Speaker 1:I mean, I started the movie thing. There's not gonna be another movie on
Speaker 2:this day. Yeah. So You you brought up Hollywood. Yeah. So that's your fault.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You should you should watch. I know you don't watch a lot of movies but you should watch Oppenheimer. It was a fun
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 1:I saw it, it was two weeks ago. I have never had this reaction to any movie ever. I finished watching the movie and me and Liz were walking out and I like couldn't talk, like, it like affected me in such like
Speaker 2:Woah.
Speaker 1:A deep way that I needed like ten minutes to like I don't know, just it was it was just such like an, like, three hours of emotion and I was like
Speaker 2:Really?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I Now I'm never very intrigued.
Speaker 1:I think from my point of view, I describe it as like the saddest movie I've ever seen. Oh. And the reason being is it's about something it's it's about achieving something really great. Like working extremely hard against crazy odds with thousands of people and achieving, like, complete greatness. But it is, like, there's no glory and it's all sad.
Speaker 1:So it's so weird to see a movie about achievement. Like, we've seen that before, like any, like, biopic about someone great. It's, like, they struggle and then they win and then it's great after. Yeah. But this was like, they struggled, they did it and then they struggled more with everything everything they came after.
Speaker 1:So Yeah. Yeah. It like hit me really really hard.
Speaker 2:Well, was not expecting sad. I don't know. I didn't know really much about it. I just know it's about
Speaker 1:Me neither.
Speaker 2:Oppenheimer. Like, that's what I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The acting was amazing. Like, Christopher Nolan is very very good at telling stories. He's just so good at like going so deep and, like, hitting on, like, the deepest points in a very digestible way. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, like, his stuff is very mainstream but I think it straddles like, just because it's mainstream doesn't mean it's, like, less valuable or dumber or dumbed down or anything. It's, like, as deep as Yeah. A lot
Speaker 2:of times, mainstream means kind of dumb down. Yeah. I mean, like Marvel movies. It's like, there's no there's not depth there, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I haven't
Speaker 1:seen the Marvel movies. What am I talking about? No, you're, you you're right. It's like, I think I think sometimes he gets categorized that because like, everyone loves his movies. So when I say I'm a big fan of
Speaker 2:his movies, they're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1:of course. But like, I think he's truly unique in that everyone does love his movies and that doesn't take away from from anything.
Speaker 2:It's almost got that indie quality of like storytelling and all that. Yeah. I gotcha.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I wanna take my eight year old to he's never been in the movie theater. Wanna take him to this person. Well, not to Oppenheimer, probably. I don't think it's is it suitable for an eight year old? I don't if can tell me.
Speaker 2:I don't think the theme of it
Speaker 1:I think it would just be boring to him and I'm like, one of my biggest realizations as I got older was when I was little, I would watch things and they wouldn't hit me, they wouldn't affect me as emotionally. Like, I could watch stuff that's like really sad or like, whatever. Like, it just it would just kinda go over my head. And now I watch the same stuff and I'm like so deeply affected by it. So I think for him, it would just be boring and you'll just be like sitting next to him like going through a whole journey.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm already not sure if he'll enjoy sitting for the length of a movie. I don't know if he's set that long for anything.
Speaker 1:You should just find a short movie because some movies are short.
Speaker 2:I thought about when Mario was out and everybody was talking about Mario.
Speaker 1:Mario was a good short movie. I was actually gonna suggest Somebody
Speaker 2:said there's a the Ninja Turtles is is a new movie
Speaker 1:that Oh, is there
Speaker 2:a maybe
Speaker 1:you would like.
Speaker 2:I think so. I don't know if it's short.
Speaker 1:Did you like Ninja Turtles?
Speaker 2:No. Never heard of them.
Speaker 1:Never heard of
Speaker 2:I was really into them as a kid. So maybe Meets lot too.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. It was our
Speaker 2:it was something about mutant turtles that just does it
Speaker 1:for for us. I don't yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 2:That was I think that was our era. That's surprising to me. They're still doing new ones. I I wonder, is it like is it live action, like that one movie where there's, the really creepy Shredder? Is it a cartoon?
Speaker 1:Do you remember those movies? The the live action do. Yeah. They were weird.
Speaker 2:No. No. That mean I loved it. Yeah. But they were in retrospect.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't remember. What did Splinter look like in that? Was he an actual rat in the one we're talking about? Well, I mean, they're all like wearing these costumes that with the mouths that move, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, they're very clearly like prosthetic yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think that that's what it was. The new one, I think I think I know what you're talking about, the new one. It looks like so there's been a bunch of Spider Man movies, like the new animated ones. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And they are like some of the best animation I've ever seen. They're like so unique and like so much going on in every scene. And I think this new Ninja Turtles one, it, like, looks similar. So I'm wondering if, like, the same people were kind of
Speaker 2:So it is an animated kind of thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think so. I didn't
Speaker 2:know there were new Spider Man movies.
Speaker 1:There there's There's like
Speaker 2:so many Spider Man movies.
Speaker 1:There's so many that there's two parallel streams of, like, different There's like the live action ones going on Yeah. With, you know, the Marvel the traditional Marvel setup. Then there's like these animated ones going on just completely in parallel and they're like coming out at the same time. Wild. That's how in Spider Man we are.
Speaker 2:Disney gets a hold of something Yeah. They just they blow it out. Yeah. Is is everyone gonna get tired of the Marvel and like Lucas franchises? Like, have they just drown like, ground those into the drove those into the ground?
Speaker 2:One of my main I
Speaker 1:think they have. I think we're past the peak of the Marvel stuff. And I actually think Disney kind of recognizes it. Like, I know they're they're like not trying I can tell that they're still doing stuff but it seems like they're kind of like winding it down. But I do wonder Yeah.
Speaker 1:What the next thing they need to replace it with because they they made so much money. Oh, yeah. They were like driving so much money for the last ten years and now you have to like replace that with something that makes as much or or more.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I
Speaker 1:don't know what it is. Star Wars, I feel like they once I took it over, I feel like not much good ever came from there. Like some of it was the best stuff was like fine. So I feel like that like never really sparked back up again. But yeah, I don't know what they do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What a weird what a weird history Star Wars as a as a franchise has. Like, the original three movies just being these, like, just huge iconic movies in pop culture.
Speaker 1:And then they made those. They came
Speaker 2:out so
Speaker 1:long ago.
Speaker 2:And then, like, just the the crazy fanaticism that that drove. And then you got these the next three with, like, Jar Jar Binks and all that. I don't know. Maybe the maybe the next three weren't all bad, that first one that that came out was, like, bizarre.
Speaker 1:You wanna hear something messed up? Yes. Okay. My personal experience okay. So what you just said is how everyone feels and most people feel.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But my personal experience was, seeing The Phantom Menace which is the
Speaker 2:The first movie
Speaker 1:talking first
Speaker 2:new one that came
Speaker 1:was out. Like one of my first memories of being in America and like, was like America's forgotten ass. This wasn't even this was like years after like my family first came here. But I remember my parents taking me to the movie theater. Had no idea what movie I was gonna watch.
Speaker 1:And the first scene, Qui Gon Jinn, like, lights up his lightsaber and cuts to the Oh, man. I'm just like, I I'm in it. Okay. This is like the best thing I've ever seen in my whole life and I'm so glad I'm here.
Speaker 2:Can I just say, I think it's actually good? I do. Darth Maul, like, I'm remembering all of the, like, marketing leading up to that. It was on every, like, Taco Bell cup. Like, it was a huge, huge deal.
Speaker 2:And I don't think I was disappointed. As a kid, I remember hearing in retrospect there, but it like Jar Jar Binks was so stupid. I don't remember being that distracted by Jar Jar Binks. I felt like it was an epic Star Wars movie. There were lightsabers.
Speaker 2:The Darth Maul character was super cool, like, and menacing and all of that. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Maybe The twist with the the queen being the handmaiden, like, whole thing. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I thought it was good. Okay. Thank you. I felt like it was like you weren't allowed to think that movie was good.
Speaker 2:It was good. And then the next two were the next two okay?
Speaker 1:Well, the they had, like, really terrible acting. Like, some of worst acting I've seen in my life comes from the second one.
Speaker 2:Oh, right. That one guy. The main The Anakin guy was yeah. He was bad. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Of the meme. I forget that we all see that meme like every day. Yeah. Exactly. That's yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that here's my theory. So okay. So hands, just roll back a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Wrap up your
Speaker 1:I think that it demonstrates how much, like, nostalgia is a part of this stuff because we saw it as children so, like, we liked it because we were kids and we continue to like it Yeah. Because of those memories. I get why someone that saw Star Wars in the eighties and then, like, watched this thirty years later or whatever it was, twenty five years later, was like, that sucks. Like I totally Yeah. Get that.
Speaker 1:Because I feel that way about certain things that are coming out now.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:It's just it's just crazy there's no objectivity to any of this, like all these things affect you. But then going back to the acting, I'm convinced that, Hayden Christensen, the guy that played Anakin, I think he got screwed. Here's why. Not only is his acting bad in that movie, everyone's acting is bad in that movie. Natalie Portman, who's like, plays opposite to him.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Terrible terrible acting, like, just really bad. But she was already kind of famous and had a career and was able to have a career after and she's been a great actress in other movies. So I'm convinced something about the directing
Speaker 2:There's something about the directing there. Yeah. George Lucas did this, didn't he?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. So I think he was into this like and he's even described these movies as like a soap opera. I think he's into like the soap opera drama of it and he was trying to get everyone to like do that but it way was unnatural. So I think he got screwed and everyone was like, that's the first time we saw you act, we think you suck and now you're a whole career.
Speaker 2:Well, that sucks for yeah, for that guy. Yeah. Because did he really do anything after that? I don't
Speaker 1:No. And he doesn't look too great these days, so I
Speaker 2:don't know. So maybe it's just that George Lucas was it like thirty years later from the last
Speaker 1:The first Wars came over was
Speaker 2:came over the seventies. Right?
Speaker 1:Right? Like '70
Speaker 2:It '9 or was something like thirty almost thirty years later. Maybe he just wasn't very good at it thirty years later. Think like thirty years from now, you think he'll be like a great programmer? I don't know. Maybe?
Speaker 1:1977. Yeah. I mean, I I I guess like the techniques changed and like Yeah. I don't know. Maybe the first movies weren't even that good.
Speaker 1:Like
Speaker 2:Maybe they weren't. Yeah. Maybe they weren't. It's just like at the time, it was It like was like People latched on. It was unique.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The story was very unique. Interesting. Yeah. Maybe he got too much credit.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I'm glad he became rich, though, because it spawned such an ecosystem, like all the video games and the toys, and it was a big part of my childhood. Oh,
Speaker 2:So much. That IP is everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure the news this stuff that Disney does, they're just good at stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it's good. It can't be bad. But if you're like a Star Wars fan, maybe it's not what you're looking for.
Speaker 1:I think there's just a floor, like Disney will guarantee that it never gets worse than
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But like, I don't know. I I haven't I'm like into that world and like not much of it has has drawn me back. Yeah. No, I haven't watched it Even as when I watch a lot of TV.
Speaker 2:Is it on Netflix? No, they have their own thing.
Speaker 1:Disney plus. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Disney plus. Yeah. Disney is an interesting, like, an interesting business case study. I mean, like, ESPN situation has it's a whole onion in its own with layers and layers of how do they get out of their situation with sports rights and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And Apple's in that space too because they have they have the, the soccer rights.
Speaker 2:Oh, did they?
Speaker 1:I don't know. So told me something. Don't if was joking but I can believe this to be real. Messi joining my team in Miami here
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is impacting Apple's. Was like, it's impacting Apple's earnings reports. Wow. Because like soccer viewership is so up from this one person.
Speaker 2:Have you bumped into Messi yet? I mean like No. I'm sure I will. It's matter of
Speaker 1:it's a public yeah. It's just a matter of I forgot you know what that is. Yeah. It's just a matter of time. It's just like Just
Speaker 2:a matter time. Miami's not
Speaker 1:that big.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Only a few million people.
Speaker 1:And people are so happy and, like, I don't think they've lost a game yet since he joined. They were the worst Oh, really? They were the worst ranked team.
Speaker 2:Is he like is he past his prime even? He's gotta be getting older, isn't he?
Speaker 1:Yeah. But he he just, like, won a World Cup. Like, he's so really good and Oh,
Speaker 2:he's still really good. Yeah. Even past it's like Jordan past his prime is still
Speaker 1:better than most. Yeah. Sorry. And he's a he's playing in like the American League, which isn't, you know, the most competitive thing. So
Speaker 2:The American League, like, MLS is split into two leagues or you're just saying
Speaker 1:the MLS? Sorry. I meant just like, it's different than playing in Europe.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, we suck. It sucks. Yeah. Mean, football.
Speaker 2:I mean, whatever. Yeah. I wish we didn't. I wish we were like I wish that was the sport so we could fit
Speaker 1:off a thing. Like, know, like, there's always like similar moments like this. Like, when f one got the Netflix thing that like 100 x that sport in terms of interest. Like, that could be the thing that happens.
Speaker 2:It could be a thing. I just I wish our kids would grow up, yeah, and use the metric system and like soccer.
Speaker 1:Metric is good.
Speaker 2:Right? But I had an old teacher in, like, middle school, Dan Zorn. He was the best. And he would say, like, how dumb the American Standard Measurement System or whatever it's called, the imperial system, how dumb it is. Because, like, you take a kid in elementary and you're like, how many cubic inches in a gallon?
Speaker 2:And they'll just stare at you. Like, I have no idea. But you ask any, like, five year old in Europe how many cubic centimeters in a liter, and they know it's like a thousand or whatever because everything is it's all related. Volume, you know, distance, surface area, all that stuff is like all correlated. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We have 10 fingers.
Speaker 2:Why do we do all these dumb things?
Speaker 1:It all Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Why are 12 inches in a foot? Sorry.
Speaker 1:Go ahead. Here's a one thing I'm gonna bring up though. I agree the metric system is better for most things. The reason I say most is because I disagree with one thing. Oh, can I guess?
Speaker 2:Yes. Miles? No. Versus kilometer?
Speaker 1:No. Okay. Go ahead. It's temperature. I have idea.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Temperature oh, yeah. Okay. Fahrenheit's nice.
Speaker 1:At first, it seems like, oh, the way they do temperature makes sense. It's like
Speaker 2:Zero and a 100.
Speaker 1:100 or whatever. But you allocate so much space to temperatures that humans never experience.
Speaker 2:It's true.
Speaker 1:It's like I do I do have a problem
Speaker 2:with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's like you never really reach temperatures above a certain number and like half the scale is elegant into that.
Speaker 2:It's like scientists made the scale and they were like, this is great.
Speaker 1:Exactly. For when
Speaker 2:we're boiling stuff in liquid whatever.
Speaker 1:Because like Boiling in Fahrenheit, no, there is a when it's 65 degrees versus 75 degrees, that's like a very big difference. And we have like 10 numbers in between in between to like describe that. Yeah. Whereas, you know, it's not the case for temperature. And I feel like when I point this out, I don't it it does seem controversial.
Speaker 1:People are like, no. Everything America I does is
Speaker 2:mean, I get it. Like, you make enough mistakes.
Speaker 1:I know. Like I get it too.
Speaker 2:We've that.
Speaker 1:A 100% on board with distance, weights, metric, definitely better. But I'm fine with temperature.
Speaker 2:Is it possible to, like, teach our kids in America those things? Like, I I bet at this age, they're sponges. They could just pick all that stuff up. But if we don't use it in the house, then they're just not gonna really latch on to it. I just feel like with the globalization and, like, Internet connectedness, I just feel more and more like this stepchild, this, like, idiot brother because I don't know anything anyone's talking about.
Speaker 2:Like, oh, you like soccer? Oh, it's fun to watch soccer? Oh, okay. I guess. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I wish we fit in a
Speaker 1:little better. It's yeah. It goes both ways. It's also incredible that how much culture we export that we use. Oh, that's true.
Speaker 2:You've you've talked about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It is it is really insane.
Speaker 2:Like, they watch our movies and stuff. Do do people make movies? And oh, sorry. That sounded so awful and dumb. Do people make movies in the
Speaker 1:world? Just definitely got faded
Speaker 2:that sentence.
Speaker 1:It's funny because some of the best movies that have reached, like, critical acclaim, like, even from the Oscars in the past couple years have been foreign.
Speaker 2:Boo. I'm sorry. I'm such an American trope.
Speaker 1:Do they have cameras?
Speaker 2:Do they?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Do they have electricity out there?
Speaker 2:I feel really bad because I people give me that.
Speaker 1:What do expect out of the Ozarks?
Speaker 2:Like, they have TVs in The Ozarks? Yeah. Yeah. Let's take a quick break for totally normal reasons that aren't being sorry.
Speaker 1:And now we're back. And
Speaker 2:now we're back.
Speaker 1:Okay. Anyway Okay. I wanna talk about Go because people are talking about Go again. Oh, People are talking about Go. Mutterings.
Speaker 1:So I've said for a long time that Go would be such a good language if the language wasn't so bad. Because there's so many things about it that I love. I love how it's just compiled to a single binary. You can compile it, cross compile it for Linux, Mac, whatever. Standard library is like pretty pretty pretty good.
Speaker 1:It's pretty fast. Language itself is like such a pain to write. It's like the type system was like really immature and didn't have generics at one point. It was like very little inference. And that's what was kind of stopping me from continuing to use it.
Speaker 1:And I used it for like almost four years, I think. Maybe more than four years. And I just grew to hate it over that time. But it's and it's been a while since then. It's been maybe like five years since then and it's developing more.
Speaker 1:It's like develop more and there's this new 1.21 release that people are pretty interested and excited about. Introduces some inference for generic functions so that you don't have to, like, constantly pass in, the generic type, things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm impressed because there was a time where the creators were, like, even against adding generics because it like Yeah. Adds so much complexity, adds so much they're like very anti anything that even feels like it can make the language more complicated. Yeah. And I'm and so that's one that's kind of when I gave up on it. I was like, I feel the culture isn't aligned with with what I what I want.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. But it seems like people kept kind of fighting and they pushed it through and now it's getting towards stuff that is kind of complicated, but I think generally makes a makes a language better. And I've been saying for a while, for the ST team that we should like, at some point, we should really focus on the Go market and like try to market directly to them and like make that experience Yeah. Really good. Because it is a fantastic choice for serverless, like writing your functions on Go, like cold starts are fast and like performance is fast, like everything everything is it's like a really good option between something really high level like JavaScript and something like way too low level like Rust.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I'm kind of excited to like see that make a comeback because I kind of gave up on it at some point.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We just had so I just had this company off-site. And one night in the hot tub honestly, that's where it was.
Speaker 1:I mean,
Speaker 2:it just it occurred to me that they yeah. In the hot tub, we had a conversation, me and a handful of engineers on the team, about kind of like all the landscape of languages. We had this big conversation about and I remember my feeling was like, I wouldn't consider Go and Rust as, like, two choices I'm choosing between because they feel very different. And then somebody pointed out that Go is garbage collected.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:If you're trying to move from some language and you're choosing between like, are Go and Rust two choices that you would
Speaker 1:make? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Something like that. Like, are they comparable languages, basically? That was the gist of it. Are they comparable languages? And I felt like, no.
Speaker 2:And I don't I couldn't tell anybody why. Just like, no, they don't feel the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. I I think from a technical point of view, you're correct in that, like, they're very different. I think I see why people compare them because
Speaker 2:They're compiled. They're fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're compiled. But I think Rust tries to get people try to put Rust in places where it doesn't belong, in places where Go belongs, they end up being compared. And I think in those situations, like, you should always just pick Go. I think Rust is like if you really consider like the rain the places where it makes sense, it's like pretty narrow. It's like a good language but Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's more of like that's what I said. It's more like a specialty language in my mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The
Speaker 2:embedded systems thing makes sense. Like, the safety is like a big thing. Right?
Speaker 1:Exactly. So like even there, like the one time I worked on embedded systems, I actually moved them from C to Go. And that was great. And I continue to use it today and a bunch of devices, they're like three generations down and they're still running on on Go firmware. So even there, it's like, it's not as clear cut as, oh, I'm embedded so I should be using Rust.
Speaker 1:It's again, so it depends on on what you're doing. They got so many things right outside of the language of like, how to deploy it, how to like, compile it, like it's fast to compile it, all that stuff they did. Garbage collection is completely fine for most cases. So everything about it was just good but when you go and use a language every day, it's like, this doesn't feel fun. Like, I don't feel good using it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I remember now it was C plus plus That was the question. It's like, if you're looking for an alternative, like, you're trying to move off of C plus plus it like, why would you choose Go or Rust? I think that was sort of the question.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, even that, it just just, like, really depends on on what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Are you streaming on Twitch? Then you go with Rust. If you're
Speaker 1:Yeah. If you need to tell people you're smarter than them, you go with Rust.
Speaker 2:Rust. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of excitement around Rust, like almost nothing got shipped because it just doesn't make sense to use for the majority of things that people try to use it for.
Speaker 2:How how much did the, like, the whole foundation thing, did that actually affect, you think, adoption of language? Like, will people choose Rust less because of that?
Speaker 1:I think if people are really honest with what happens, and this is completely fine, it's not a criticism. This is like, I think people should be honest about this. We get bored and we want to try something new. So we try something new but we pretend like it's some logical step of like, I'm analyzing stuff I need to do and this language seems correct and that's why I'm excited about it. It has all x y z things.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But you're just bored and you wanna wanna change things and that's totally okay. Like I A lot of reasons I've shifted to many languages in my career professionally have been just because I got bored. I got into serverless because I was bored. And I think there was a phase where people got bored with Rust.
Speaker 1:Then they kinda got bored with Rust and the Rust Foundation thing was happening at the same time. So I think that just kinda like
Speaker 2:Fueled fire. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That people move on to something else. And you learn every time you're bored and you go try something new. So it's totally okay.
Speaker 2:So what what is the best not even like has to be supported in SST or has to have really good support in SST. But like if you're building this sort of serverless event driven, lots of Lambda functions that are your back end, what is the best language in your mind? Like, if you're gonna choose one that's like s tier and all the rest fall below it.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, it still is TypeScript because, it just depends. Like, it's it's really between Go and TypeScript and I go between these two. Go is technically better if you just look at performance and like what actually happens at runtime. You should probably pick it. But from a tooling point of view, everything around it is gonna be in TypeScript.
Speaker 1:Front end, your infrastructure, everything else is gonna be in TypeScript. So it's just hard to beat that synergy but I can definitely see myself at some point writing all of my back end in Go again. Yeah. If the language gets better to the point where I'm like, at least enjoying it a little, that'll push me over to to writing it more. Sometime in the future, the SSTCLI will be written in Go.
Speaker 1:It's just kind of inevitable. That's just going to happen. If I'm writing more stuff in Go, I'm probably just gonna wanna write my back end in Go as well.
Speaker 2:Isn't like the big strong suit of Go is the concurrency model? And wouldn't that like not be a big advantage in the serverless? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I okay. So people really are like, Go has great concurrency. I don't think that's accurate. I think it's that Go has con a concurrency model and other languages don't.
Speaker 1:So by comparison, it has it. I don't think it has a great concurrency model. I think languages like Elixir have like a fantastic concurrency model. Go just has one and it's good that it has one because other languages don't and you can do things that you can't do otherwise. You're right, it doesn't show up as much but my challenge from the other day where I was like, I'm in a single Lambda function but I still need to like make n number of requests out.
Speaker 1:Implementing that in Go would have been more performant. It actually doesn't look much better in Go than it does in in JavaScript just because I'm saying the model isn't really it's like not good, it just exists. Yeah. With the benefit that it does like CPU concurrency as well, which JavaScript would not do. But yeah, people like it for that reason.
Speaker 1:When I first got into Go, it was because I was building a web crawler and I was doing it in c sharp and I couldn't get it to like be concurrent enough. Yeah. And I switched to Go which had like a more explicit concurrency model. So I did go for that reason but I don't like view it as like, oh, this is like a really great thing about the language.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah yeah. You said c sharp. But why why does nobody talk about c sharp when like 90% of people writing code are writing c sharp? I feel like it's never talked about.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Yeah. It's weird. I wrote c sharp for long time. I know you did as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. A of people that are like our age, like, started out.
Speaker 2:We we we cut our teeth on C Sharp.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I get why I wouldn't choose it in like a serverless context, like modern reasons,
Speaker 1:just the runtime and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But it's still in use and like a lot of people are shipping c sharp every day. And I feel like it's talked about zero on Twitter and the other places that I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, it's funny because most languages will have some like delegates from the language that, like, show up in our bubble, right, like Yeah. Even stuff that's, like, just heavily used by enterprise people. Like, some of those people leave and start companies and are more in, like, this sort of the online world. Like like Java, like I hear I see people using it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, like you never hear from c sharp people. Don't know why. Don't know why. Just like, I guess if you're in that Microsoft bubble
Speaker 2:If you're
Speaker 1:out there, let us know.
Speaker 2:I know some of you.
Speaker 1:But the people who I don't know, let us know. I don't know how. Maybe on Twitter.
Speaker 2:Start talking about c sharp. Let's make it a thing. Let's just start making c sharp the big topic. Can we do that? Can we push?
Speaker 1:I think the secret is everyone is actually writing c sharp and they don't realize it.
Speaker 2:Oh, what do you mean?
Speaker 1:Because they're all writing TypeScript,
Speaker 2:which is CC. It's basically the same thing. Yeah. Made by the same old Anders. If Anders you know, if Anders dies, whenever that is, maybe twenty years from now.
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to wish any, you know, timeline on Anders. But when he does, I'll feel that one. That was my whole the start of my career. Yeah. And now with TypeScript.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No, that's been my whole career. I've been in some way impacted by his work.
Speaker 1:It is crazy, like, the whole c sharp TypeScript thing. Like, I I mean, I've said this before but I literally never most languages, I sit down and, like, go to learn the language. I didn't do that with TypeScript. I just, like, started to write c sharp and I was, like, all the syntax are just working so Yeah.
Speaker 2:I didn't
Speaker 1:have to go learn anything. That's they just, like, repurposed it and made it, like, crazy mass market appeal. Yeah. Coming from Microsoft too, what a crazy turnaround.
Speaker 2:Microsoft. We've I think we've talked about that. Right? They just own so much of the developer touch points. Like, they have
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, it's it's so funny too to me because so many developers would be like, stupid Microsoft. Yeah. Like, just like that's the in vogue thing to hate. But like, they use Versus Code. They use GitHub.
Speaker 2:They use I mean, granted that, you know, Microsoft bought some of these things like GitHub.
Speaker 1:But But yeah. At this point.
Speaker 2:But still, it's a Microsoft product. Yeah. Why we oh, I don't wanna go down that path again. Never mind. Sorry to go back down on the why is GitHub down all the time?
Speaker 2:And I was like, well, we've already
Speaker 1:Well, I was gonna say GitHub GitHub reminded me, did you see our new GitHub handle?
Speaker 2:Oh, you got the SSD? I did see that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that just redirects, right? Like nobody has to change anything, like it just will redirect if you've got like your your local Yeah.
Speaker 1:You got your old stuff, it'll because we also we also retain the old one and we got them instead of a redirect. As you as everyone knows, SST is just three people and I feel like every person has like a trait that is like a superpower and then like comes together really nicely. Yeah. Frank's superpower is and he'll say this himself, he says this himself all the time. He's like, I'm not smart, I just work really hard.
Speaker 1:Which sounds okay, you've heard that before, but you do not understand what it means. How hard? He is like the most persistent person ever. Like, he'll like take something to a place and you will have you would have given up like a 100 times before, like, you could even get there. He has been working so first, the NPM package.
Speaker 1:We got the SST NPM Yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember that. Yep.
Speaker 1:I remember like kinda trying and I saw him trying and I was like, okay, this is never gonna happen. He like just kept going at it for months and months and months and finally contacted the random guy that had it like found like he like contacted his past coworkers like just did all this like crazy, like, stuff and just never gave up even though it didn't move an inch for, like, a very long time. Yeah. Yeah. This GitHub thing, same story.
Speaker 1:Like, it's probably been a year. I think we've been trying to get it for a year. Wow. And he's just been been trying and trying. And you mentioned Chris Munns earlier.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And Chris Munns actually was the one that introduced him to the person that helped us, like, figure this So shout out right there.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's, it it's just super persistent. So whenever we have a task that's like, this is gonna be a slog Yeah. Me and Jay are not the type of people
Speaker 2:It's Frank. Are gonna
Speaker 1:do that. Yeah. Frank's like, you guys you guys are smart. I'll work hard together. We'll, like, you know.
Speaker 2:I don't know if Frank listens, but if he does or if you just wanna relay the message. My birthday is in just a week or so. And I've been trying to get the adam dot dev on GitHub. I can't get ahold of a person. So if he wants to just, like, spend a year and give me a gift next time, this year, next time next year, this time, you know, I would appreciate that.
Speaker 2:I mean, thank you, Frank. Thank you. I don't wanna say appreciate it.
Speaker 1:It's like a d a m d o t dev. That's what you want? What? A d a m d o
Speaker 2:Are you kidding me right now? Dev. Are you really trying to spell my handle because you don't see it on everything? I'm I'm adam dot dev on literally everything.
Speaker 1:I'm just clarifying it for I don't know. I don't know why I did that. Is
Speaker 2:it a d e m or is that a m?
Speaker 1:No. Because in my head, I was like seeing
Speaker 2:this dot as
Speaker 1:a dot.
Speaker 2:Like, dot. Yeah. No. I don't think you can do dot on No. No.
Speaker 2:No. Yeah. No. I want it spelled out. Somebody has it.
Speaker 2:And I for for some reason, I thought it was a certain person I found on LinkedIn, but they never replied to me. I don't know. I didn't put much effort into it, and I don't care that much. Well, I do care that much because someday I want to be anonymous. People are going know that I'm Adam, but they won't know which Adam.
Speaker 2:They won't know my last
Speaker 1:It's already too late. What are you No. Stop it. It. I'm doing it.
Speaker 2:Just wait.
Speaker 1:Look behind you.
Speaker 2:It just says adam. Dib. I'm saying they're going to know my name will still be Adam, but they won't remember my
Speaker 1:last you were the same No. No.
Speaker 2:No. We're gonna make this work.
Speaker 1:We're going anonymous back.
Speaker 2:You're gonna
Speaker 1:have to, like, go way harder on this if you want this to happen. You need to start with, like, an anime profile picture and like just
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Maybe I will.
Speaker 2:Maybe I will.
Speaker 1:Ben, no one would ever suspect you of all people to do that. So
Speaker 2:I mean, they'll still know what my face looks like.
Speaker 1:But then you're not gonna be that anonymous.
Speaker 2:I'm not looking yeah. I'm not looking to be completely anonymous. Just like it's hard to find out my real name, you know, that kind of anonymous. I want people to doubt, is Adam even my name?
Speaker 1:But at this point, we can just run your face through facial recognition and it's gonna show up.
Speaker 2:You're killing my dreams. Just killing all my dreams.
Speaker 1:Dreams died a while ago, and it's
Speaker 2:Well, we'll see about that.
Speaker 1:Well, unless you wanna go complete like, look, once we make the
Speaker 2:I'm gonna disappear.
Speaker 1:Once we make the jump into the metaverse, then you can play whatever you want. And at that we point
Speaker 2:not already in the metaverse? Isn't Twitter and all this stuff isn't that kind of already the metaverse? Okay.
Speaker 1:No. If we were in the metaverse, the fact that it messed up my knee would have no impact on my life because I could just do Oh,
Speaker 2:you're saying like, it'll all be virtual reality and like, you will be a physical being in that
Speaker 1:It's just the next level. Yeah. Okay. It's the next level where I can look like whatever I want. Yeah.
Speaker 2:How's your how's your knee, by the way?
Speaker 1:It feels basically normal. So I'm not
Speaker 2:Oh, gonna basically.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna try I'm gonna resist the temptation to, like, treat it like it's normal for, another week just in case.
Speaker 2:Just rest up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But it feels fine. It's a little stiff but fine.
Speaker 2:Continue going very hard in jujitsu. I have icy hot on my left elbow because it hurts a little more after every session. I should probably take a break. I just can't. I'm obsessed, Dax.
Speaker 2:It's my favorite thing in the world.
Speaker 1:Oh, Chris is asking if I posted a video of my knee. No, I did find the video on my phone. I will I will post it later. It's funny. It's just me walking I I I watched it again yesterday and I just walk up and I'm go and I go I felt something pop.
Speaker 2:It's riveting. Can't wait to see this. Alright. We should probably get some work done. This has been a long one today.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, not this episode,
Speaker 1:but the two episodes we just recorded.
Speaker 2:Is that is that should I not say that? Is that, like, too many peaks behind the curtain? People are listening still. I I love the end of episodes because I feel like at this point, we can say whatever we want. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:There's like 10 people still listening. And they really like us apparently.
Speaker 1:There's something offensive.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker 1:I know. There's all this stuff that you bottle up and you don't say, so you should just say it.
Speaker 2:Oh, I have a lot of things bottled up that I will not ever say.
Speaker 1:But I'm I'm not ever gonna say them. That's the nature of bottling up. I don't
Speaker 2:know if you understand how bottles work, but you put a
Speaker 1:little lid on it trick.
Speaker 2:And stuff stays in there.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Alright. This has been fun. Thanks, Dax.
Speaker 1:Yep. See you.
