Threads, Twitter X, Board Sports, Jujitsu, and the SST Roadmap
God, every I forget every time we're recording, somehow, that's the day the lawn people Yeah. Are
Speaker 2:Not distracting at all. I'm good.
Speaker 1:Okay. It's really distracting. I just completely forgot what I was saying.
Speaker 2:Why why is everyone so wrong on the Internet all the time?
Speaker 1:Oh, what's happening now?
Speaker 2:Just everybody is wrong, and I don't understand. I wanna change my mind. Like, I want people to come in with informed opinions and convince me otherwise of my position. Makes me smarter. Why does anybody do it?
Speaker 2:It happens occasionally. Just very occasionally.
Speaker 1:I feel like you always post stuff. I would say like the thing you're saying probably isn't too different than what I would say. But I feel like you somehow That's
Speaker 2:the way I'm saying it.
Speaker 1:No. Somehow you find a way to phrase it where like you just attract I forgot the I forgot the word for this but I maybe it's like pedantry, like all the comments that are like that point out like the trivial. Yeah. Technically, well technically, you're like,
Speaker 2:you forgot this exception. I feel
Speaker 1:like I see you going that happens to you all the time. Like, you say something. I read it, I'm like, okay, I get the point of what he's saying but then all the replies are just like, well, forgot this one thing or you forgot this other little detail. I feel that's unique to to you. I feel you get sucked into that a I
Speaker 2:invite it somehow. I just look kinda dumb and people are like, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
Speaker 1:I feel the same way. Hypothetically, I wanna have a certain type of conversation. I do get to have that with some people. Yeah. I think I've learned that it never happens on the internet because the internet is just represents like the average person and I'm sorry if you're the average person, you're just not very smart.
Speaker 1:Like, it's just by definition, you're average. I'm sorry to for you to find out in this way, but it is true. So I don't think I expect that of most public discussions. Like, even sometimes I have discussion in public with someone I know really well, because then we get to have that. But I don't think I ever get like a really great point made by someone that's totally anonymous and that's why I actually did the entire other way where I just make people think twice before replying to me because they know I'm gonna punish them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You've you've sort of set a precedent that, like, you don't put up with those kind of replies. I have not set that precedent. Yeah. I'm just too I'm too kind in my replies, maybe.
Speaker 2:I
Speaker 1:don't know. The people are not kind to you.
Speaker 2:I know. Right? That's what I'm saying. Just like, come on, you missed the point. I need those tweets that you use.
Speaker 2:They're like, if you're replying to me, you probably missed the point or if you disagree with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I open source my replies. Now everyone can can use that. That's I people taking them and using that would be great. I want more people to contribute back, and I'll use theirs too to That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Think it's a good idea.
Speaker 2:Speaking of Twitter, I wanna talk about something you tweeted about people getting ahead of we had a breakthrough in AI. And now it's let's it's time to figuring out what we're all gonna do with our time and this utopia that we're gonna live in. I I love your reaction to that. I've definitely heard some of that, and I I wonder where you heard it.
Speaker 1:I think I've just been seeing I mean, there's, like, the range of all the very serious intellectual people talking about how we need to bomb data centers and we need like, establish that policy now.
Speaker 2:Wait. Smart intellectual people are saying that? Just like
Speaker 1:the overly intellectual academic people that just Okay. Spend too much time thinking about stuff and they're just convinced that now we need to establish, like, some kind of embargo type situation where we don't allow other countries to develop the technology. So that's like one extreme of people being seeing this and being, like, 10 miles ahead of where where I am. I'm just like, what's the next step? Like, how do I use it in my web app?
Speaker 1:And then people are talking about all this crazy stuff. And the other side of it is I hear I see debate about what, like, a utopia would look like or whether that would be good or, like, what will we what what we'll be doing and how I don't know. I I just feel like everyone's excited to talk about this stuff and I just do not I don't feel, like, that close to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. I'm with you. I mean, I think, like, I love to think of a world where you don't have to work. I mean, where, like, you get to pursue things you wanna pursue and where there's not this huge discrepancy in value.
Speaker 2:Like, we're programmers. We get compensated pretty well for being programmers. Other people have skills that just aren't compensated that well, and they maybe put a lot of time into those skills, and that's really hard for them. I I wish we didn't live in that world. I wish abundance was such a thing that, you know, we could all just sort of, like, pursue what makes us happy.
Speaker 2:That'd be amazing. I'm sure there's a lot of challenges with that mental health wise and otherwise. But I don't know. I love to think that that could be a thing someday. I don't know that it's gonna be AI or it's gonna be fusion energy or whatever.
Speaker 2:I have no idea, but I don't yeah. I don't feel like we're close to to, like, start having that conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, it's it's funny because I I might feel that way about fusion energy. Like if that became a thing that was very practical and worked, I can see how that has a crazy impact on just the cost of everything. It's kinda like, you know, we had the industrial revolution and that made things that historically, if you want something that was pretty good quality, you needed someone to pay you needed to pay someone that could spend like a year of their life making it and then suddenly that became crazy cheap. So I can see that with certain technology.
Speaker 1:I just find it weird that we're looking at a thing that like prints text for you and we're like, oh, that's obviously the next step to that's gonna unlock like the solution to every scarcity problem we have. It it just it just feels weird to me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't sort of, like, see how that directly leads to any of those effects. I will say to play the other side of it, I see the argument that there's been a big breakthrough. And you imagine, like, all these properties that these LLMs have that were sort of emergent and are catching a lot of people off guard, even people really close to it. That that sort of, like, breakthrough, you can imagine a couple more breakthroughs.
Speaker 2:And we're at some crazy place where I don't know if it's superintelligence, but we have something really, really useful. I can I can kinda play that out in my mind and see that, like, yeah, maybe we're doing a lot less mundane tasks here in the next decade? And just as programmers, like, I think things get better and better all the time. I can see that. I just don't see how it, like, suddenly solves all the world's problems.
Speaker 2:Like
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think that's where
Speaker 2:you just start, like, making a big leap into well, theoretic I mean, it could. Who knows what it could do? It's gonna be smarter than us. Exactly.
Speaker 1:I think and and we've talked about this before but I I wish I could find who said this originally because it it just stuck with me and I just keep repeating over and over. And I did I did reply in that in that thread with the same thing where, someone explained that what they think is going on is we saw something that felt impossible become possible and now we're very confused and we feel like anything that's impossible should now be possible even though Yeah. There's no like, tied to it. It's like, okay, we have this crazy breakthrough in AI. That obviously means like global warming is solved, is gonna be solved.
Speaker 1:They're like, obviously means like energy is gonna be solved, you know. Even though there's really
Speaker 2:no All the hard problems.
Speaker 1:Pathway to those. Yeah. So I think we're in a state of crazy optimism, which is cool in some ways but I don't know. But it's just funny because it's turning into, it's not like everyone is getting together, hyping each other up on, wow, there's gonna be a utopia soon. That's actually not the form I'm seeing it take.
Speaker 1:I'm seeing people finding it as a new topic to argue about. They're like, well, the utopia is not actually gonna be like that, it's gonna be like this.
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah. What kind of policies are we gonna need and like, what what are we gonna have to do in that scenario? Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2:So far ahead of
Speaker 1:People already debating I
Speaker 2:I feel like we have to talk well, I've said Twitter. We have to talk about the x thing because apparently, that's all there is to talk about. Elon rebranding to x.com. I didn't even know this. Did you know this?
Speaker 1:That just what you just said there? Yeah. I knew that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I didn't know until two days ago or whatever.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. He was rebranding. Was like this weekend was when it
Speaker 2:That's has that been the plan all along?
Speaker 1:Have you have you read any of Walter Isaacson's books? Like, Steve Jobs
Speaker 2:He's my favorite author.
Speaker 1:Are We've you kidding talked about this. Yeah. He's a bunch of them. I've heard he's a favorite. Musk.
Speaker 1:He's been following Elon Musk for the past two years.
Speaker 2:Oh, really? He's writing
Speaker 1:He's basically been with Elon for like all these key moments. Yeah. And he's been like Pete like he's like trickles out information every once in a while. And he did say that even before the acquisition, like months, like like like almost a year ago, he was already talking about rebranding to x.com and this idea of what his vision for that. So yeah, I think it's been the plan forever and now they're just kinda pulling the trigger on it in like a superficial way.
Speaker 1:But yeah.
Speaker 2:So aside from all the short term, like, everybody's like, woah, the logo's dumb or whatever. All the takes that are flying around. It my mind went to, wow, he's gonna, like, he's gonna completely change. It's not gonna be Twitter anymore. Like, that's a big move.
Speaker 2:And it's like, is that a good idea? Like, are half the people gonna leave because they really were attached to tweeting and Twitter and birds and whatever? And it's like, there's, like, 300,000,000 people on Twitter. Like, they didn't really make it in that I mean, obviously, like, all of us with our dumb little side projects, like, they made it. But, like, they didn't
Speaker 1:make it make it at the level of meta or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, like, the billion dollar benchmark or billion user benchmark, they're not even close. So it's kinda like maybe you do have to do big things to even have a chance at growing to those levels. Like, maybe you can't just refine
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:The thing. I don't know. What are your what are your thoughts on all that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, I I agree. I think they've Twitter's like plateaued a long time ago and basically have done they've like done nothing in the past ten years during an era where there was so many resources, so much growth like, if you can't like, yeah, it's whatever you can't just look at them in isolation. You have to look at them by like their competitors and their competitors grew like crazy and they and they did not. So yeah, you have to do something diff quite different.
Speaker 1:I think I I think I I just have two feelings around this. I think one, I'm fine with what it is and what it's been for the pad, like, ever since I started using it.
Speaker 2:Same.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I personally am okay if it doesn't change because with change, there's just risk that it gets it gets worse. Yeah. And so most of my feelings, my my emotions around it are like, it's probably just gonna get worse and and more bloated. So that's why I'm not super into this idea.
Speaker 1:But on the other hand, the actual idea is maybe worth talking about a little bit. Again, I don't know if I'm super into that either, but I think the model that people people have talking about this forever. I remember when when I I I actually worked on a, at a company in this category for a while and even this was like in 2015 or something. Even back then, everyone was looking at Asia and they were like, in Asia, there's like the everything app. You have WeChat and that is how you talk to your friends, your doctor, that's how you do payments, that's how you call a cab, that's how you do bank everything is just Yeah.
Speaker 1:In this one one super app and it's kinda like the OS shifted up one level until like, now this app is just the OS and like, you're kinda installing apps inside the app. Mhmm. And I think for a while, everyone's been like, oh, yeah. That needs to be recreated or, like, why hasn't that happened here? And that's been, like, like a goal or a target.
Speaker 1:So I think that's what Elon is trying to create.
Speaker 2:Oh. Yeah. I know none of this. You must know things that I don't know. I just know that he changed it to x.com and there's an x for a logo now.
Speaker 2:That's literally all I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I meant by that. That's like a superficial step and there's like an actual bigger idea behind it. And that's a bigger idea like there should just be a lot more functionality.
Speaker 1:Like you should be I mean, you can think of almost anything, any other application like why do you get jobs through LinkedIn? Like why is that not happening on Twitter? Like why do you do payments Yeah. Through Venmo? Like why is that?
Speaker 1:So there there is like something there. I think it's extremely extremely hard to execute on. I think the success that the some of the apps in Asia have had, I think that's just like an artifact of certain timing and certain like scenarios that are specific to that part of the world. I don't know if we can recreate it here when we have like crazy amounts of competition with like, you know, if they're gonna do an everything app, of course, mister Zuckerberg is gonna try to copy it. And they're gonna be, you know, head to head there.
Speaker 1:They could end Facebook could have already done this and they kind of are stepping a little bit more in the direction with Instagram. But they haven't gone that far in. So if they haven't gone that far in, there's probably a reason for it. So yeah, that's that's the idea. Again, my feeling around it is like, it's it seems like very small chance of succeeding.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's what has to happen for them to even exist. But I feel like the most likely case is the app is gonna kinda get bloated and Yeah.
Speaker 2:Through that lens, like, I I don't benefit from a billion people using Twitter. I like Twitter how it is. So Yeah. I guess from our perspective, that's not necessarily, like, a big welcome change. But I guess they're trying to, yeah, figure out how to make it.
Speaker 2:It's such a good point that, like, for ten years when there was more money in the history of money floating around, that they just, like, maintained Twitter and, like, grew really I mean, organizationally, they grew a lot, I guess. 7,000 people or whatever. But for what? To maintain Twitter. It's interesting.
Speaker 2:That it's a good time to check-in on threads. Do you still use threads? Is threads still a thing? Oh my god.
Speaker 1:It was this this is really funny because yesterday or this it was either yesterday or this morning, I opened it. Just forgot I haven't looked at it in in days, I opened it. I kid you not, I scrolled through 20 posts, every single post was about Twitter. Every single one was like, Twitter, that idiot, he's shooting into x.com. Like x.com, can you believe it?
Speaker 1:I'm like,
Speaker 2:That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I don't I think I I think you've probably seen their numbers. Right? It's like I haven't. DAU is just tanking.
Speaker 2:I've seen nothing. I've been completely unplugged from the world. So please be my my catch Yeah.
Speaker 1:So they I don't know where this data is coming from. I don't if they're releasing it publicly or if it's leaks, but the chart of their daily active users is like the last I saw it last week was down to like 10,000,000 daily actives down from What like
Speaker 2:was it? What did it peak at?
Speaker 1:50 to a 100,000,000 something something in that range. So, it's definitely past that initial thing. Obviously, the people behind this definitely knew this was gonna happen. I think I can't even tell from the way they were wording it, they kept saying the word retention because I think they knew that there's always an initial excitement. I personally feel like if you don't figure out the magic and capture it right at that moment, it's gone forever.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've ever seen a case where anyone has come back from that. Like, think about, like, Clubhouse, think about, like, just I mean, Blue Sky also. So I feel like it's done if once you, like, you don't capture at that moment, it's it's But obviously, they're gonna keep trying.
Speaker 2:I I have all kinds of thoughts here. Like, what what is that magic? And then I think, like, okay. So they didn't get the Twitter crowd to stick around. But, like, the 700,000,000 people that use Facebook but don't use Twitter or that use Instagram or whatever the billion app the billion person app you wanna to reference, TikTok.
Speaker 2:Like, where those 700,000,000, presumably, it's more than that, I guess, because it's not a perfect separation. Why couldn't they use threads? Is text just like, did Twitter strike some magical chord with the text medium that will never be replicated and it's just not a very good medium and it doesn't make sense? Do you have any thoughts around all that?
Speaker 1:I think it's just the simple explanation is it's just the 80% of people are lurkers or even higher percent, like, 95, whatever it is. Yeah. So you're not really competing for that percentage. So that, like you said, like those 700,000,000 people or whatever, most of those people, if not all of them might just be great consumers. They might not be great producers on these platforms.
Speaker 1:So yeah, unless unless you capture like, I mean, there there was a couple days where everyone that I followed up, you know, typically post stuff on Twitter, was on threads. And then they all just lost interest and went back to posting their best stuff on on Twitter. And now, I think I see some people posting on both, like, the same content. But yeah. If if they're on Twitter, then the reason other people are on Twitter is for them and they're just gonna stay where those people are.
Speaker 2:So Interesting. I don't think about why I'm on Twitter. I've never I've never thought about it. I guess I've been there so long, and I mostly just would have been a lurker. And I slip into that still, I guess, where I just I scroll through it.
Speaker 2:But I I can think of thing like a thing that I'm like, man, I'm glad I saw that on Twitter. Who are the people that are valuable producers on Twitter? Well, are there things you are like happy to consume or is it just like hanging out?
Speaker 1:Well, now it's become because I think I'm I'm now more on the producer side. I think when you're in that size more hanging out with people, you know. But that said, like, I do a lot of my knowledge has really come from Twitter just from the years of me using it. I used to follow I mean, my my following habits have changed but I wasn't following a lot of software people until the last until I started working at SST. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I've been on Twitter for years before then and I was in like a kinda kinda completely different bubble, just more like the startup, like, business founder bubble. Yeah. And I feel like I learned a lot from there. I've also learned stuff that I thought was right and then learned later learned was wrong. But to me, it's just like a good source of information.
Speaker 1:I can't remember anyone specific, obviously, but I definitely can track specific ideas that I understand now have having come from from Twitter. Yeah. I guess yeah. I guess
Speaker 2:there is good stuff. I guess there's things that I don't really consume like blogs or I'm not like consuming other things on the Internet. So I guess anything I am learning is probably starting at Twitter.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And anything new that gets announced, like, that might be something you wanna consider, you probably I it's either I hear it from Hacker News or hear it from Twitter. So Yeah. I mean, I can just think back to anything like like when the when Astro first came out. Well, I think I saw that happen on Twitter.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I don't read Hacker News either. I just don't consume much of the the, like, typical dev content. Maybe that's good.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's bad. I don't know. Don't use Reddit.
Speaker 1:I don't use Reddit Okay. Cool. You have to there's something you have to consume so that you bring value to people and then you rely on them to consume other stuff and bring it to you.
Speaker 2:Wait. Wait. Wait. Say it again. There's some things you have to consume so you can bring value to other people.
Speaker 2:What do you mean?
Speaker 1:Okay. So one of my friends has recently got super into movies and just like just knowing everything about like really good movies, whether they're big or small or random or whatever. So he consumes a lot of that content and then brings to me like 5% of it, the stuff that I might care about.
Speaker 2:Still it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I rely on him to do that work.
Speaker 2:Okay. He
Speaker 1:relies on me for, you know, engineering stuff. Yeah. I just think that that's how stuff on Twitter tends to work. Like people distill stuff.
Speaker 2:Okay. What what can I throw myself into and and be valuable to you, Dax? What could I distill for you? I wanna give you I wanna give you that value.
Speaker 1:No. You can't. But the thing it's not something that I had to tell you. It's something that you are more interested in than I am.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not interested in anything. Could you please tell me what I'm gonna be interested in?
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, I guess you're just useless then.
Speaker 2:I do sometimes feel like like, I don't know. I don't have interests. I don't care.
Speaker 1:Well, you're getting into jujitsu now.
Speaker 2:Oh, jujitsu. I'll okay. I'll throw myself into jujitsu, and I will distill the 5% for you. And you'll be terrible at jujitsu because you need a 100
Speaker 1:Here's the problem, that same friend that's into movies is also really into jujitsu jujitsu. So He's probably better
Speaker 2:at both for
Speaker 1:me. Both for me.
Speaker 2:So you really don't need me.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Good to know.
Speaker 1:Just I don't know. Just just find a new hobby. So you get new hobbies though. I realized the other day that I live in Miami. I realized that.
Speaker 1:You do. I don't
Speaker 2:know if you realize that but you do live in Miami.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I was like, oh, live in Miami. That opens up all kinds of things that I just would never even have considered before.
Speaker 2:Grabbing an orange off a tree. Sorry. That's strange thing here to mind. Wrestling an alligator.
Speaker 1:I like mango. Mango. Yeah. I actually haven't seen I don't think people so mango trees are beautiful. So everyone has them everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Like I think people have orange trees like just hanging out around. I mean, they're they're just stuck in orchards. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I guess
Speaker 2:the time I've spent in Florida, I lived in Florida. I don't remember seeing any orange trees. Interesting. Continue. You have a new hobby or
Speaker 1:something. So I'm like, okay. I'm like around water. I can get into water sports stuff like that is a thing I can do now which I which has been a hugely tedious thing before. So I love stuff with boards.
Speaker 1:So like, I can see a long board hanging behind me. I just love like, I don't I'm not like a skateboarder, like I don't like to skateboard and do tricks. I love just like getting a lot of speed and like carving and and and kind of going Yeah. Like standing on a board and doing that. So they were those options in the water.
Speaker 1:So obviously you can you can wake surf. That requires a boat and I think at some point I will have one because I'm I I can see myself getting really into You
Speaker 2:will have a a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I know everyone says don't get a boat, find a friend that has a boat, which has been my policy so far.
Speaker 2:I've never heard that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. It's they're just like stupid expensive to just not just purchase but just to like have. But I do think I can see myself doing that because I I guess I just love I would just love being able to wakeboard whenever I want. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's not a good option because I can't just like do that on a whim. Paddle boarding, kind of boring.
Speaker 2:I've done that before.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's it's like it's like nice. It's like a good workout but it's not like exhilarating. Yeah. So that leaves two other options.
Speaker 1:So one is skimboarding, which is that sounds dumb because it's just like on the shore. But I started watching videos, it's just like you just have a board and you like run and you jump on it. And then
Speaker 2:like slide across the yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But I saw people that are like really good at it and they've it effectively turned into a surfboard because they like ride it all the way out into the into the ocean and they like catch the wave back. So like, that's like a great place to start because I go to the beach all the time and so just lying around, can do something a little bit more active.
Speaker 2:Is the last one can I guess? Yes. I know some things about boards.
Speaker 1:Yes. What's the last one?
Speaker 2:Is it surfing?
Speaker 1:No. It's not surfing because Miami is not an amazing place to surf. Oh, okay. They're just not like the best ways. People do it but it's it's not super It's not like Hawaii.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Or or I think people go to Puerto Rico. I guess Puerto Rico is like crazy surfing. But like crazy to the point where you're dying if you're there potentially so
Speaker 2:Oh, jeez. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But because it's
Speaker 2:not surfing. No. Least one
Speaker 1:option which is kite boarding which I have
Speaker 2:no idea what that is. Gladly.
Speaker 1:It's it's basically just, it's like surfing. You have a board. It's it's short. You're not strapped into it. There's like little hooks that you kinda slip your feet into.
Speaker 1:And you you you have a harness and there's like a kite attached to the end of it. And I see people doing this all the time. It's like super popular here whenever I'm at the beach, I see people.
Speaker 2:The kite holds you. It's enough force
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's it's like a it's like a very long rope, I guess. I I don't know any of the I I just started looking into it. And you you can like kinda control the there's like a there's like a bar in front of you. You attach the kite but there's also a bar and using the bar you can kinda control the kite and you can do all kinds of cool stuff.
Speaker 1:So it's kinda like surfing but you don't need to rely on waves because you can rely on the wind.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I it's it's it's pretty difficult. It's not something that you can like, skimboarding and just go and do it myself but, you have to, like, take lessons and stuff. And you actually have to be licensed to, like, go out in the water. But I'm like, I wanna I wanna get into this.
Speaker 1:One, it's super fun. If I can get decent at it, like, it just looks so fun. There's all these crazy videos of people like, I don't think I'm brave enough to do this kind of thing but you can get, a lot of air on it. You can basically like fly because like the kite is Oh, like pulling this takes you up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So people like
Speaker 1:jump over islands. Like it's it's it's insane. They just like, obviously small ones but those like jump over the whole thing. I've seen videos of people jumping over yachts. I've seen people like flying by a yacht and like grabbing a beer.
Speaker 1:Like it's just some really insane clips. But for me, I just wanna like, you know, even just something a lot simpler than that would be would be really fun. So I'm trying to
Speaker 2:Is it good exercise? I guess, it's probably pretty
Speaker 1:good. Yeah. You have to be in like pretty good shape because just controlling the kite is is just tough on your arms. I like I've have you done like windsurfing before? That's one where like
Speaker 2:wait, windsurfing. No.
Speaker 1:It's like a parallel boat.
Speaker 2:Parasong is where you do nothing, you just sit. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Wind surfing is like it's like a boat it's like a board with a sail on it, but you have to hold the sail up. Yeah. Yeah. And that's I remember doing that.
Speaker 1:That was like really Oh, that's exhausting. Yeah. So but it's one of those things where if you kinda do it every week, eventually, just build up whatever you need.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's so the jujitsu thing. Like, I do I lift. Like, I do, like, the basic lifts, you know, like press, bench, squat, deadlift, that kind of stuff. Turns out, I don't do anything that, like, works my groin muscles at all because jujitsu, that's it's so painful.
Speaker 2:I just constantly am having to stretch my groin muscles out. It's like you're squeezing your legs together a lot, and you're I don't know. Just the the things you're doing in jujitsu are not things that my body normally does. So I'm in that, like, second week, and I'm just I'm hurting. There's some places that are not ready for
Speaker 1:it. Yeah. I mean, it seems like it works out every possible part of your body.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's pretty, like, full body exertion. It's it's like we do five minute rolls, and I can't believe how exhausting five minutes can be. Like, just the amount of sweat, full body exhaustion, just like all your muscles, everything. It's really great.
Speaker 2:I love that part of it. I mean, that's the only reason I'm doing it.
Speaker 1:The I was at the gym yesterday and on the TV, they had they're just playing like, Jiu Jitsu highlights for some reason. And I was like, just imagining you doing that. I'm like, this is really funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Just imagine that except I don't don't have a plan. I don't know what I'm doing and I'm just getting rolled around. Somebody's on top
Speaker 1:of me. Well, doesn't look it's one of those things where it's such like it's so realistic because it's just like two people, like, rolling on each other. So it doesn't like look cool. Right? It just looks Yeah.
Speaker 1:No. Like chaos, which is what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And the I think the less experienced, the more chaotic. I'm watching some of the, like, upper belts in in my gym. When they when they roll together, it's so much more like chess. It's so much more methodical, and you can see the mind games they're playing and how they're hiding different things they're trying to do.
Speaker 2:It's just way more interesting, and it's slower, I think. It's more methodical. Like, when I roll with another white belt, we're just, like, sweating and going at it. Like, we have no restraint. We're just like it's like if you told two people to wrestle.
Speaker 2:I mean, that we just basically don't know what we're doing. Yeah. It it's very different, though, to watch or to actually roll with somebody who has some experience. They're a lot better, I think, to
Speaker 1:to roll with. They they know what they're doing. Do you feel like you're getting better?
Speaker 2:I mean, it I'm still just, like, taking in so much information. I've been in there as much as I can be, like, much as it's open and what you know, when they have structured stuff. So I'm trying to soak it all in. I think I learned pretty fast. Like, I'm a just generally a pretty fast learner.
Speaker 2:So I'm definitely picking some things up. It's starting to like, I can imagine how these people are doing what they're doing. I still can't do it, but I can kind of imagine how you could have the kind of knowledge to to pull some of that stuff off. But it really is so mental. There's there's like, I'm in pretty good shape, I guess, at this point.
Speaker 2:Like, I feel like I can I can exert myself for five minutes with somebody, but I don't have the mind games, and I don't know I just don't know how to get people to submit? Like, I don't know any of those submissions, So I have no plan. I'm just trying to defend myself for five minutes, basically. But, yeah. I mean, I'm learning stuff.
Speaker 1:You should try you should try whispering insults in their ear. Just get in their
Speaker 2:head. Man, you're terrible at this.
Speaker 1:So it's it's like a one hour thing and then, like, do you have enough energy for, like, a whole hour?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. I so I went in this morning at 05:30 an hour before because there's a couple of there's a few guys that go in early and they just they practice stuff together. They roll. They do different things. So I'm getting in the extra credit.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? And then I'm there for an hour less than and then and then there's some rolling after that. Just like free rolling. Yeah. No.
Speaker 2:It's it's like two, three hours when it you know, on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, it's just a couple hours. But, yeah, it's a lot of a lot of exerting, a lot of trying to learn stuff. But it's just gonna take time. Do you do you believe in the, like I said the ten thousand hours things on Twitter and everybody's
Speaker 1:like, Malcolm Gladwell, you're an idiot. Like, do you
Speaker 2:believe in putting in time and, like, it takes years of effort to get really good at something? Do you believe that or am I missing something? I
Speaker 1:don't get how that's a controversial statement at all. It's like, yeah, you have to put in a lot of time to get better at something. Why is that at all controversial? I mean, okay. Okay.
Speaker 2:You agree that it does take I'm waiting to hear, like, there's a shortcut and I just missed it. Like, you can get really good at something if you just do the right thing for a hundred hours. I haven't heard that right thing yet.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't like, it's the ten thousand hours thing is, I guess, somewhat literal, but it's more like conceptual. Like, the idea is, like, it takes a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Years.
Speaker 1:I don't I don't understand because how can it if it took any shorter, then there would just be a lot more people that were good at a thing and it would just be very accessible to become really good at it. Like the whole Yeah. The definition of being good is you're, like, in the 1% of people, like, a very small percentage of people. Only way you get there is by doing it a lot more combined with whatever natural ability that you need.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's it's refreshing to me. Like, it's an encouraging thing to me that, like, I could decide I wanna be really good at anything. And I just know that you just gotta get the reps in if you spend the time. Like and I don't get worried about, like, I don't know, did I get the most out of today's jujitsu?
Speaker 2:Like, I just know it's like a long battle of attrition, and it's a thing I wanna do for a long time as long as I don't get hurt. Like, that's to me, that that's the right mindset, and you don't sort of set yourself up for disappointment and the highs and lows. You just kind of like, you know where you're at and you if you're not there yet, and it's gonna be a long time. I don't know. I don't know why yeah.
Speaker 2:Some people seem to to think that's I don't know. Because there was, like, this attachment to ten thousand hours or it was put in some books or there was a study. I don't care about any of that stuff. I just know, like, in my mind, it's like, I'm gonna spend several years really throwing myself into something and before I'm really any good at it.
Speaker 1:I I just don't understand how it could be any other way. Is there yeah. I think it's I think the thing I always think about is I'd rather be stupid with, like a thousand attempts at something than like be really smart with just a couple because Yeah. Yeah, like you just I just rather spend a lot of time on it and it doesn't really matter. I think that people the thing that people get stuck with is they try to optimize way too early.
Speaker 1:So I imagine that there's like a spectrum, there's you first start doing something, you suck. You're like the worst you possibly could be given your natural ability. Then there's a best you possibly could be given whatever natural ability you have. And the gap there is massive. It's so so massive.
Speaker 1:Like, you
Speaker 2:just Yeah.
Speaker 1:You don't need any strategy to get like halfway up that spectrum or even like 80% of the spectrum. Like the the optimization is like the like the eking out the last bits of whatever is possible for you and I think people spend way too much time researching a lot of that stuff up front, get super in their head about it and then like expect it all to happen quickly and they just give up. So it yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's the thing that's the other pushback I got besides people just being like, ten thousand hours, that's made up. Like, yeah, I know the number's made up. But the other thing people said is, like, you gotta get quality hours. Quality ten thousand hours. And to me, like, if it's not quality, I'm not gonna do it for ten thousand hours.
Speaker 2:Like, if I'm gonna get bored. If I'm just on YouTube and I'm not doing the thing, sure. That's not gonna, like, make me better at a thing. I'm not doing the thing. I'm doing I'm watching YouTube.
Speaker 2:Like, I'm not too worried about how you're spending those ten thousand hours because if you're actually doing the thing for ten thousand hours, you're just you're not gonna be I don't know. You're not gonna you're not even gonna know in the in the beginning
Speaker 1:I was gonna say. What you should
Speaker 2:be doing. Like, you're literally just doing it.
Speaker 1:You don't know what quality is till you like, you learn what quality is after some time. I see this with working out all the time. People are like, no, this is the best way to work out or like, that's the best way to work out and they're trying to get through all these debates before they even start doing anything. Like, you can literally do anything in the gym. Like, literally do anything in the gym and do it consistently and you're gonna be better than the vast majority of people.
Speaker 2:I think that's the most encouraging and, like, the best thing for my mind. Maybe it doesn't apply to everybody.
Speaker 1:Maybe because it's simple.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's simple. Yeah. I don't have to, like, min max in my first year of something. I can worry about that later.
Speaker 1:So I agree with you. Cool. I had one more topic that I wanna get into. So this is complete shift going back and talking about tech a little bit. I mentioned this to you the other day but I have a theory.
Speaker 1:It's not my theory. I think I've heard a few people talking about it. And it's about Vercel, our favorite our favorite topic, our favorite company to talk about. It's been a
Speaker 2:while since we've talked about Vercel. I know, That's why
Speaker 1:I feel okay talking about them because we haven't talked about them in a while. The theory is that they're currently fundraising and the reason I think this is if you look at some of the stuff they've been doing over the past, I probably would say three months, it's a little bit indicative of that. So Guillermo has been a lot their CEO has been a lot more public like he did a few big interview. Think he did a Schrotechery interview, just not something that has been a normal habit. It's like a new habit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They have been talking a lot about AI. They have put AI into certain people's titles. They are hosting a bunch of AI meetups. They are posting constantly about some of the AI tooling they're building.
Speaker 1:And there's obviously maybe a logical like, not logical but like, a good progress reason for them to do this. Obviously, everyone's adding AI functionality. But to the degree they're like talking about it, it's actually one of the only things I hear them talking about now. And this definitely is gonna help a lot with investor conversations. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Our investors are, like, trying to line up with some trend and the better you line up with that, you know. So I think they are probably fundraising right now. That's my that's my guess.
Speaker 2:Which is bananas just at first blush. I mean, I don't know their financial situation but like but they raised 300 and they're fundraising.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But I mean, no matter how much you raise, you you are roughly planning on like a Always. Eighteen month, twenty four month like runway for
Speaker 2:that's true. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's
Speaker 2:But all like at some point you raise so much, how do you invest that wisely in eighteen months? I
Speaker 1:know that's the easiest way. Also from an investment point of view, think I investors also require you to spend the money because otherwise, from their point of view, it's not being put just their capital. It's just like moving from one bank out to another. Yeah. So I imagine they're I think timing wise also, I think it does it does line up from their last fund run.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Since their last raise.
Speaker 1:I'm sure they like
Speaker 2:And what's their next raise? How much are they raising? At what valuation?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:The world has changed.
Speaker 1:I know. I think if they maintain their existing valuation, that would actually be a pretty big win.
Speaker 2:A win? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because there's a value I think it was 2,500,000,000.0 or something.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's not actually as high as I would have thought.
Speaker 1:I think their revenue whether they they announced I forgot what it was. Yeah.
Speaker 2:40,000,000 a year or something like that.
Speaker 1:Was it 4 it was a 100. I don't remember what it was. But even within that range, that's still like a massive markup.
Speaker 2:Oh, sure. I just like when they raised, that was like peak tulip season or whatever Yeah. They call
Speaker 1:would have
Speaker 2:thought the number was bigger than that. I
Speaker 1:don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I think just give I think they I think at that point, they had like 20,000,000 in in revenue. So 20,000,000 at 2,500,000,000.0, that's pretty nuts.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Okay. So I think their current based on that interview, I don't remember what the number was but I do remember thinking that if they're at that revenue now and they can get someone to pay for the last valuation number, like that there that's a that's a pretty good outcome. That means they can like solidly say they're worth 2,500,000,000.0.
Speaker 2:Who who led their last round?
Speaker 1:I don't
Speaker 2:know anything about their
Speaker 1:I don't remember either. I do remember them and Netlify raised like, within one month of each other around the same amount at a similar rate.
Speaker 2:How's Netlify doing? I know they just had the round of layoffs and they restructured a bit. But, like, how how in terms of, like, I don't know a lot of people that use Netlify. I hear Vercel constantly. I don't know who's using Netlify.
Speaker 2:People who still call their thing a Jamstack app, I guess.
Speaker 1:I don't know what Jamstack is. I just have no idea what the hell that is. You know who uses Netlify? We use Netlify for some reason. We literally built a product that can host any front end and we do not use it.
Speaker 1:How messed up is that?
Speaker 2:Wait. You use Netlify to host what? Your console?
Speaker 1:No. Not the console. Finally, the the the console is not is like using our own stuff but we're just like we
Speaker 2:Yeah. But like seed?
Speaker 1:I think seed's front end is Netlify, our docs and our website. And this is a legacy of like just legacy from before we had any of our tooling. But it's so annoying to
Speaker 2:I've never used it though. Is it good? Sorry.
Speaker 1:It's just one of those things where like, I don't need it to be good. You know when sometimes you don't need something to be Yeah. You it's just a thing that solves the problem you need to be you don't need to be any more than that. But then everyone tries to make their product a lot more than that and then it kinda becomes worse somehow. So that's how I feel.
Speaker 1:It's like, I push something, all of sudden there's like, all these like GitHub integration things popping up and they're always failing because like, it's not set up correctly and then, so that's like ugly and annoying. I don't care about any of that stuff. But I go into Netlify
Speaker 2:Like Twitter, we just want stuff to stay the same. Can we just can we all just pause? Can we just build something and then leave it forever?
Speaker 1:And if you go to Netlify, then there's I just find it very confusing and overwhelming because there's like a million tabs, a million options for all all these different things. I'm just like, we're just deploying a static site. That's all. That's always challenging.
Speaker 2:JAMstack site even.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. I I think I think it's a JAM site. It's static. Is that what is that what JAM Probably.
Speaker 2:Maybe. JavaScript and markup? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Oh, is that what Jam?
Speaker 2:I think so. Maybe. Oh. That was actually intuition. I maybe have heard it before, but is it everything JavaScript
Speaker 1:and markup? Wait a minute. Like, what is not? That was with the markup.
Speaker 2:Okay. I wanna ask you about the console, the SSD console. How do you guys how do you guys envision I'm using it now. I'm a user of the SSD console, so I know you have at least one user.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And I'm using it to never open the CloudWatch tab again, which is great. But where where does it go from here? Tell me your So both
Speaker 1:currently, what you're using is it's tailing only. Right? So you you open it and it tails, which is sometimes useful but I don't think is like I think most of the time you don't want tailing, you just wanna like be able to like scroll through your logs backwards. Mhmm. So that's what I'm working on.
Speaker 1:I've been working on the past couple days. Probably gonna finish it up today, hopefully. We'll see how it goes. But very simple, you open it up, everything sorted by the way you think about it. I have a front end.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Here are logs for the front end. I have like an API route. Here's the logs for it. And just something really basic just from now, you can page backwards.
Speaker 1:You can say go to eight hours ago, page backwards. So very simple, like nothing super crazy. It's just the basic when people think of logs, they just wanna see a list of messages in this time sorted.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't have to, like, think about what a log group is and, like, find the most recent log group. It's just list of descending or ascending or whatever Yeah.
Speaker 1:Logs. And and the other thing is we we we group it by by invocation, which is obviously helpful because that's what's nice about Lambda, like you your logs can be grouped by by invocation. Mhmm. So the next thing we go from here is so I'm just I'm really just building for myself, that's what's so easy about this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just keep thinking about what I go to do and what is not working or is missing. The next thing I wanna see is I just like in the main area where we saw our resources, I just wanna quickly see error counts that are per Like Per function.
Speaker 2:Per stack or per oh, per when you see all your sub resources.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. So when you see your various functions. I just wanna, like, see, okay, this had 80 errors in the last eight hours. So I can just go click that and then just see a list of invocations that have had errors in them and, like, can debug them.
Speaker 1:So I think with those two things combined that handles like 80 of the reason that I go to the AWS console or like anything I need to do in production, it's usually I'm reacting to an error or making sure that there aren't any errors and I'm just looking through them. Mhmm. Yes, you can get really fancy with like exception reporting and all that stuff. We're we're kind of I think we're trying trying to challenge all that. We're like, what's like the smallest tool we can give you to solve the problem?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And until it feels like it's not enough, we're gonna add more. So obviously, tailing was like the smallest tool. Not enough, we're gonna add more thing. K.
Speaker 1:Not enough, we're add more thing.
Speaker 2:Tailing's been very useful for active development. Like, I mean, that's mostly what I'm looking for. That's what I used the old console for, I guess, too. Like, it had something like that, didn't it?
Speaker 1:Oh, for local. Yeah. Yeah. For local development. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. So last week, we worked a lot on local experience. I guess that's for it's not for the Astro stuff. It's for like the API stuff.
Speaker 1:No. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So being able to save payloads and replaying and then all that, those have just been feature requests for a while.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Where we're gonna go next is, user management. So when you connect your AWS accounts, one of those is probably gonna be your organizational account. Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 1:Management account or whatever. The top level. Yeah. Yeah. So the one of the reason I go into AWS Console is I am adding a user.
Speaker 1:So Mhmm. We're gonna have this thing where you add it when you add a user to the SSD console, you can like link them. You can say that, okay, this is like linked. Automatically creates, an SSO user for them. You can download your credentials file or your config file.
Speaker 1:Nice. So you don't have to like Yeah. Explain to people how to set that up. Uh-huh. Just make that whole process of like onboarding a new developer really easy.
Speaker 1:So I think if we have that, I don't think I go to the console for much more. I had an interesting conversation with the the Drizzle people because they're working on it's already out and they continue to work on it, Drizzle Studio, which is a web based SQL query tool.
Speaker 2:Is this what we said needed to exist on like a I think our last episode we talked about this.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Like a really good, SQL tool. Yeah. Yeah. Browser based. Love it.
Speaker 1:So I I obviously love the team and I feel like everything they do, it's just gonna become good even if it's not like the best today. I think they're always on the right path. So Mhmm. They are so their tool they built is not dependent on like you using Drizzle. It's just a generic
Speaker 2:tool for
Speaker 1:any SQL database. I think if you use Doodle, there's like more features that get unlocked but you don't have to. So we're thinking about doing an integration where you'll see your r your RDS resource in our console. Yep. You can click query, it'll open up in a new tab that's already authenticated and you can query your database.
Speaker 1:So that's pretty useful for production, development, everything. What's really nice about that is that's actually a construct that gets deployed and the reason that needs to happen is so you can put the Lambda function in a VPC, which means you don't need a VPN anymore. Oh. Which is like
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:Such a pain.
Speaker 2:So you're off into the s s t console is like your way of getting into those private resources. That's cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I'm figuring out the exact token exchange right now, but basically we can tell Drizzle Studio this person definitely has access to this resource. Yeah. And then they can proxy to that Lambda.
Speaker 2:Would it work if the if the RDS instance predates your SST app and you import it?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that. So I think we'll I think they're gonna build a Drizzle studio construct and you can spin that up and point to the RDS instance that it needs.
Speaker 2:An existing RDS. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.
Speaker 2:SST is good. If you're listening to this podcast and you make stuff on computers, like software, you should use SST. It's amazing. I'm gonna be saying that a lot these days because I'm loving it. We're getting ready to ship a very big rewrite and have been loving SST.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna refrain from a lot of questions about esoteric things within astro site construct and etcetera. And I will take them to Discord like a good friend should.
Speaker 1:Oh, man. Speaking of we have a nice little thing going. So you're using SST and ASTRO Uh-huh. Which is great for SST and for ASTRO. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:ASTRO is using SST and ASTRO as well. Nice. So they're building a new product that they're gonna release. I don't know, probably soon but they are using ST internally. So it's a nice little, like, nice little community we got going.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's really great to know that, like, they're gonna have eyes on stuff in SST that so, like, there was something I just ran into where it's a new 2.9 ASTRO feature that doesn't seem to work in SST yet. Like, they're gonna have eyes on that. I don't have to think about, like, being the canary and being like, this doesn't
Speaker 1:Yeah. Is it the pre rendering thing?
Speaker 2:No. It's the redirects. They've got, like, configured redirects now.
Speaker 1:Oh, the redirects. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about extracting those and compiling them into a CloudFront function.
Speaker 2:I saw that in Discord.
Speaker 1:Oh, is someone gonna
Speaker 2:do that? Yeah. Somebody's gonna do that because I would love to to use that feature.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's it's it's a cool approach. Yeah. Yeah. I was
Speaker 2:trying to get, like, a time commitment from you, I guess. Like, were you could do that right after the the the podcast episode here or
Speaker 1:I mean, if you if you throw me some GIF subs on Twitch, maybe. Okay. Hey,
Speaker 2:I could do that. I would totally
Speaker 1:don't actually do that because then I'm gonna be
Speaker 2:Oh, that's Then then
Speaker 1:I'm forced to work on a feature, but I don't know if I want to.
Speaker 2:Okay. Fine. Okay. Well, speaking of, I've not been around much because aforementioned rewrite and I need to get back to it. But this is fun.
Speaker 2:I'm glad we still have a podcast. This is the one thing I'm doing outside of slaving away at Yeah.
Speaker 1:Writing code all day long. We just skipped one recording session last Thursday and it's felt like
Speaker 2:Mhmm. It's been forever since we did. Yeah. Same.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we got really used to the routine.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh. Same. Alright. Yeah. I guess someday we'll wanna take like a vacation.
Speaker 2:Like, you might wanna be like, I'm gone for a week.
Speaker 1:Or I might wanna
Speaker 2:be like, I'm gone a week. There you go. Yeah. We did it in a hotel that one time. Remember that?
Speaker 1:That was fun. Yeah. Alright.
Speaker 2:I'm going to stop the recording. I mean, I'm gonna say goodbye. Goodbye, Dax.
Speaker 1:Alright. See you.
