A Conversation with Trash about TypeScript and the Ozarks
OnlyFans what?
Dax:Oh, yeah. I guess trash didn't know this.
Trash:So I don't know why. I don't look at OnlyFans. I don't even know that is.
Dax:But you have a profile. I thought you post there.
Adam:Casey has me on this whole, like, skincare routine.
Dax:Oh, I think it's working.
Adam:She's got me doing, like, moisturizer at night before bed, in the morning. There's, like, vitamin c.
Dax:K.
Adam:Yeah. Vitamin k. I do, like, a chemical exfoliant twice a week, and the next day, do vitamin k, retinol, something. I don't it's a whole lot of stuff. She claims I mean, she does it on her face.
Adam:She looks young. So she claims it'll do a lot of things. Stop aging. I've just I literally never put anything on my face. I hate the feel of lotion on my skin.
Adam:So the fact that I'm doing anything is going to look different. It it bothers me a little bit when I look in the mirror. I feel so shiny. Like, I'm so moisturized. Yeah.
Adam:Yeah.
Dax:I mean, it looks healthy for sure.
Adam:Oh, yeah. I think I'm healthier than I was. It just still feels very foreign because I literally did nothing before. I wouldn't ever put lotion on my face. I just don't like the feeling.
Dax:What's worse, sand or lotion for you?
Adam:Oh, sand by a lot. Ugh. Sand is my least favorite thing in the world. And I love like family vacation. I just the beach is so hard for me.
Adam:I'm just the entire time I'm thinking about where the sand is. It's in my pockets. It's in my pants. It's under my fingernails. It's everywhere.
Dax:Yeah. I'm just like I'm just so used to
Adam:it now because we're just always at the beach.
Dax:So it's just it's not that bad. Like you just you just take a shower and you're fine.
Adam:Yeah. By the end, I started to get used to it and I'm fine with it.
Dax:Okay.
Adam:The first day though, I'm thinking about like, is he gonna make it into our bed?
Dax:I'm glad we didn't get a car with like leather seats or anything because with Zuko and going to the beach and everything, it's just our car is like a it's like an outdoorsy car at this point.
Adam:Yeah. We call ours we so we've got like a Model x. It's pretty nice, but we call it the minivan because it's just like constantly there's food in the floor. Like, there's just with kids, it's impossible to keep it clean. Yeah.
Adam:We finally just embraced that, like, feeling that this is not a nice car. It may have been a nice car, but it's not. It's just it's a minivan. That's life now.
Dax:Yeah. Yeah. I definitely went with the more rugged options, and I'm glad for that. I need to get my energy up. I need get my energy levels up so we can get some high energy shorts.
Adam:Yes. I took some caffeine. I'm not gonna lie. You took some the way
Dax:you describe that stuff when you took some caffeine, like, did you take it in pill form?
Adam:No. I've done that in the past. It's been ten years, but I used to take something called Thermoline. And it was like just a caffeine pill basically, but it was marketed as like this workout Like
Dax:your abs? Mhmm.
Adam:No. I think it was marketed more like a pre workout. I mean, you were amped. I don't know how much caffeine was in it, but then they started making it. They wouldn't make the normal kind.
Adam:They only made this, like, Thermoline inferno, and it literally made me turn red like a lobster. Like, my skin got puffy and red. I don't know what they put in that thing. It was probably so unhealthy. But you did.
Adam:You felt it. You were ready to go.
Dax:You made the deal with the devil every time you took Yeah. Took a pill.
Adam:I gotta look it up. I'm sure it's still a thing. Thermoline and What's a
Dax:five hour energy? That's another thing I've never tried.
Adam:I have never understood. That just sounds like such a toxic thing to put into my body. Like, I've I see it and people, like, must be buying it. It's all over this grocery store, like, at the checkout. I have no idea.
Adam:It sounds horrible.
Dax:Well, it's like kind of an incredible thing because it's not that old of a company. And somehow, it is literally in the front of, like, every convenience store ever. Yeah. Uh-huh. How did that guy do it?
Adam:I think it's I think it's like someone mentioned this story before, I think he's like kind of a random dude. Aren't we all?
Dax:And he somehow got this in literally every single store. He's super rich, and people must be buying it because otherwise why would people why would they continue to keep it there? And then what's in it? Like What's
Adam:it? It just like a shot of something that gives me energy for five hours is super sus to me. Why is that so sketchy sounding?
Dax:Five hour energy. And it's it's so funny. It's so precise. It's like, it's just for five hours.
Adam:Uh-huh. Yeah. Maybe that's part of the problem for me is, like, anything they can be that sure of in the marketing. I don't know. It just sounds like Five hour energy ingredients.
Adam:It must just be a caffeine drink.
Dax:Oh, it's just the same stuff that's in energy drinks, towering
Adam:Is it just like Yeah. More concentrated?
Dax:I guess so.
Adam:Because that's a shot
Dax:of it. Here's the thing, I, I love how some energy drinks taste like Monster. I think it's so good.
Adam:I love the taste of Red Bull. I always did. In college, I would drink Red Bull.
Dax:Yeah. Like, I don't care about the energy part.
Dax:I just
Dax:love the taste.
Adam:Mhmm. They're probably so bad for you though, aren't they? Like your heart or something?
Dax:I I mean, I I don't ever drink them. It's only so I have a rule where if I'm doing a super long road trip, which happens like once or twice a year, then I'll like Yeah. Get one of those, it's like my little treat. But outside of that, no, I never drink it because it just seems like poison.
Adam:So I had to drive from like South Florida back to the Ozarks when we moved back home. And it was, like, twenty two hours or something from Naples. And I I remember, like, just driving through the night, coffee drinks, like the cold coffee drinks from convenience stores and just pushing through. Yeah. You kinda like something like that, like a big event, like a big drive or something.
Adam:You just kinda like make exceptions, like screw your body.
Dax:Wait. You drove through the night?
Adam:Yeah. Just you? I think I slept like two hours out of that twenty four hour period. That's really crazy. Wow.
Adam:So I flew my family back, but I drove a U Haul and pulled our car. If we if we hadn't had a car like, we actually sold our car before we moved down there, and we just rode bikes for, like, the first three months. We were just like, no car family. But then we bought a car down there. And if we didn't have that, we probably would've I would have just flown and had somebody move our stuff.
Adam:But getting the car back and
Trash:all that and just drove a a U Haul.
Dax:So I've done the long drive a lot. Like, I've done it from New York to Miami a bunch. And I've always had this issue. I'm sure a lot of people have it. The road just hypnotizes me and I like start to fall asleep at the wheel.
Dax:And it has like nothing to do with me being tired.
Adam:Yeah. No. After a certain amount of time, it's just so brain numbingly boring that I mean, I try to listen to books and stuff, but there's no amount of books that can keep you occupied before the yeah. The road just kinda drives you crazy. Yeah.
Adam:There's nothing worse in the world to me than being sleepy and at the wheel. Like, you you wanna sleep so badly, and it's just like, you will die. Yeah. I can remember having in high school, I had a girlfriend that lived, like, forty five minutes away. Like, everything in the Ozarks is like a long drive.
Adam:What's that?
Dax:Sure you did. Okay. Did you go to a different school?
Trash:What was that?
Adam:I so I I just tweeted. She did go to a different school. So she went to to Mountain View, and I went to Willow Springs. Anyway, who would make that up? Why would I make that up?
Adam:I I I tweeted something earlier. Said something about my wife said, and somebody's like, subtle flex about having a wife. Is that a flex? Like, how
Trash:many people
Adam:in the world have significant others? I don't I'm not trying
Trash:to like
Dax:Literally everyone eventually.
Adam:Yeah. Right. Like, this is not me trying to be impressive.
Dax:Do you ever think about that how, like, no matter like, everyone eventually like, mostly everyone just eventually gets married or, like, find someone. It's, like, it's kind of amazing. No matter how terrible you are, like, you can probably find someone that'll marry you.
Adam:That's a good point. I guess some people don't. I mean, that's like a fear of, like, ending up alone. Right? Because I never really understood that until I think, like, adulthood, you really think about what would it be like.
Adam:And I'm sorry if this is like, I don't know, this might really hurt people that are in this situation. Just like to grow old and realize if you didn't have kids and you don't have a significant other, like, there's nobody like, once your parents and that generation dies, there's nobody, like, looking out for you. You know what I mean?
Dax:Yeah. It is weird. It's kinda dark. Isn't it? I know.
Dax:Anyway, I interrupted your probably nicer story.
Trash:Oh, yeah.
Dax:So let's get back
Adam:to the the easy one. Much easier listening. I had a girlfriend. She was, like, forty five minutes away. And I would go and, like, hang out with her in Mountain View or where Birch Tree.
Adam:This is so specific. You're Birch Tree. What what
Dax:do mean a literal tree?
Dax:Is that
Dax:what you're describing?
Adam:Oh, it's called Birch. It's a town. Sorry. So we would go like, I would hang out at her house, and I'd drive back home really late at night. And I can remember falling asleep so many times on that drive at, like, 11:30 at night.
Adam:And I just was pretty sure, like, I had a fifty percent chance in high school of dying on that road driving back from my girlfriend's house. It It was a pretty toxic relationship if it killed you.
Dax:She made you almost kill yourself every time.
Adam:Yeah. Basically.
Dax:Her fault. Yeah. There's definitely been times where I'm like, oh, the last ten seconds my eyes were closed and I have no idea Yeah. What happened.
Adam:When you come to and it's like, how long was I out? Oh, it's so I hate that so much.
Dax:I mean, the the autopilot stuff now is great because my car even my car has a it can on the highway, it can pretty much drive itself. Yeah. Like, stay in a lane, slow down, if someone merge in front of me, all that. So that probably makes it like a 100 times less dangerous.
Adam:Does yours okay. So your car, it's probably not marketed as autopilot. No. It's just like lane assist and cruise control. Right?
Adam:Yeah. Which is really all you Something like that? And that every car has that. Right? Does your car make you, like, touch the wheel every fifteen seconds?
Dax:It's not as aggressive as the Tesla one. Yeah. Because, like, technically, it does, like, make sure my hand's on the wheel, but it's like reasonable. It's not like I need to like jerk the wheel around every Yeah yeah yeah. Every position.
Adam:You're aware of how the Tesla system works.
Dax:Because I rented a Tesla in Oregon. Oh, this is another funny story. So I rented a Tesla in Portland and we're driving to this really nice hike that I like to do. We got the car and I got a ticket three minutes later. Because Portland has these giant highways, like like they they seem like, like, don't know, I'm little technical and they were called freeways when they're like or like interstate type things.
Dax:Yeah. I'm used to like being able to go like really fast on those. But it turns out they're treated like a local highway and the speed limit is like 50 something miles an hour and I was going like 80 something.
Trash:Oh, no.
Dax:And as I say this, I'm remembering, I actually forgot to pay that ticket and it's been two years. So Oh, I can't go back
Trash:to Portland.
Dax:Are you
Adam:like wanted in the state of Oregon?
Dax:I guess so. Yeah. Wow. But on the drive back, I'm by the way, I'm terrified of like self driving cars like I Yeah. Like just I can't like my brain is is not there.
Dax:But I was trying a little bit with my like really diligently, I was like trying it again because I was scared. I have my hand on the wheel and everything. And Tesla like didn't it like was too aggressive with what it was asking me to do and I thought I wasn't. I didn't have my hand on the wheel And it, like, banned me from using Autopilot for the rest of the trip.
Adam:Yeah. It'll do that. So I have I could go on all kinds of stories. So I've driven Teslas for ten years. Like, we got our first in 02/2013.
Adam:And so we've seen the whole self driving stuff come along. And then once they started marketing it as autopilot, it's funny to me that, like, people will be like, oh, you drive a Tesla? It, drives itself. Like, no. Actually, it's a worse version of the probably better system you have in your car, it's but marketed as autopilot, it makes me jerk the wheel every fifteen seconds.
Adam:It's actually pretty bad. And I think didn't they recall all the Tesla cars that have full self driving beta or something? They've recalled, like, every Tesla Model x and Model s or something. I I don't know the details. But, yeah, it's not very good.
Adam:I I'm full believer that it'll get there and that it's going to be great when all of our cars drive themselves. Like, big fan of that idea. Hope we get there. But the current version is just kinda like a marketing trick and it's a bad one.
Dax:Yeah. I think me personally, the, I'm very comfortable with the highway self driving where it's just like following the lanes and even for like decent sized turns, it'll be able to do it. And that's like 80% of what I want self driving for, like 90% of what I want self driving for. So I feel like we already basically have it. I don't really care about it navigating like my local streets for like the three minutes it takes for me to go off the highway and back to my house.
Adam:Yeah. I can't imagine having the confidence in it because even on the highway or just, like, coming up to stoplights on, like, semi highway, like, where it's pretty fast roads, it's just it like, it doesn't stop at stoplight, but it'll stop at the car. But it's just very aggressive. Like, the way it brakes is super aggressive, and it's not the way I would drive. So I I can't imagine, like, pedestrians around coming up to stoplights and in the middle of town.
Adam:Like, that would freak me out. I hope we get there.
Dax:Yeah. If I'm gonna die, it's gonna be my own fault.
Adam:Yeah. Exactly.
Dax:Why is everyone saying emo stream today? Is it because I'm here? I mean, I think they're referring to trash. Is that your vibe?
Dax:I think
Trash:so. I don't know what my vibe is. If I'm being honest if I'm being honest with I don't know what my vibe is.
Adam:I mean, part of your vibe is like I mean, the whole name is like, I'm bad at stuff. Just like, don't mind me. That's part of it. Right? But you're not
Dax:bad at stuff.
Adam:It's all a big scam.
Trash:Yeah. I I think I don't think it was a I think it was just to lower expectations so people can't make fun of me. Like so I said this example before. You know, have you ever seen eight Mile? Yes.
Trash:So at the very end of eight Mile, the Eminem documentary or the movie, so at the very end, he basically freestyles and disses himself the whole time to where the other guy just couldn't even say anything bad. So it's like, well, I always said I'm trash, though. You can't come into my stream and tell me I suck. I'm just like, alright, bro, we get it. We get it.
Trash:So then it's like it just, like, pretty much, like, stops a lot of trolls. So, like, when someone does troll, I'm just like, dude. It'd be just like, well, I'll just look at them. We're just like, what are you doing? And then just make them look stupid.
Adam:Did you always have like, did you start your online persona trash, or were you doing stuff Yeah.
Dax:Yeah. Before that?
Trash:Yeah. It was great. COVID happened, and I was like, dude, I'm so bored. I used to go to the office every day. Like, I worked at, like, a startup, and it was just, you know it went from just, high paced, seeing people all the time, constantly busy to, like, I'm sitting at home, like, just sitting there.
Trash:And I like, dude, I need to, like, talk to somebody or something, or I'm gonna, like, lose my because when you're in the remote environment, like, you can be on Slack, but, like, no one's really talking on Slack. Right? You don't really have, like, that interaction. I'm, like, a super I'm, like, a super social person. Granted, I am the guy in the office that has their headphones on and literally doesn't talk to anybody.
Trash:But, like, but, like, I absorb the vibe, but when I do wanna talk, it's like, I just don't work. So, yeah, just like, do I need to go online? And I think I saw, like, Prime was like the first stream I ever saw, and I was like, do people watch people program? Like, this is stupid.
Dax:I was like, who would
Trash:like sit at their computer and like watch someone code? It was like, it blew me away. I didn't know what Twitter was. I always thought Twitter was stupid. I like, who wants to just read sentences on their phone?
Trash:You know what I mean? So it's like so, like, these two things, like, slowly crept into my life. But, yeah, that was, like, pretty much how it all started. Like, Twitter was, like, later. I started Twitter, like, a year ago.
Trash:But, yeah, Twitch was just like, Well, I wanna build stuff, and I never finish it because I have no accountability. So maybe if I stream it, like, I'll finish it. And it ended up, I just kept knocking things out. Because when you start off, no one watches you, or at least me, because I didn't have like online presence. So it's like, I literally, my only viewer was my phone that I put, so I would at least have one viewer.
Trash:And I'll talk to my wife and be like, Hey, hey, babe, can turn on my stream too so I can have two viewers? So it was like that, and I was just like, Well, no one to talk to me, so I'll just crush and code. And that's like how it was for, like, three or so months. And then, like, slowly people started, like, creeping in. But, yeah, it was wild.
Trash:It was wild.
Dax:Now we're here.
Trash:Yeah. Now now you, like, now you boomers are here, now it's just weird space.
Dax:You're a
Dax:boomer? You're the oldest person of the three of us.
Trash:What are talking about?
Dax:Just because you look like
Adam:you're 12 doesn't mean we
Dax:don't know your real age.
Dax:I was
Trash:born in February. What are you talking about?
Adam:Are you are you serious? How old
Dax:are you? Are you serious?
Trash:No. No. I'm not serious.
Dax:No. Okay. Think you guys
Dax:said I'm not enough to be I
Adam:was gonna say, yeah. I I was pretty sure.
Dax:I think you said you were born in '85, if I remember correctly.
Trash:I was hoping you wouldn't say that during this. We're we're having you here. Yeah. I'm a I'm a certified dad. It's fine.
Trash:It's not a big deal.
Dax:Look at that flexibility, man.
Trash:I just woke up. Well, I didn't just wake up. It's like, I just started my day because I'm on the West Coast. So I'm just like getting into it, just sat down,
Dax:you know. When are you gonna be back on the East Coast?
Trash:So I was gonna move back to the East Coast this fall, but, like, my kid's going to school, and I like, I don't wanna move them in the middle of the school year. Like, I'll be, like, messed up. Right? So I think we pushed it to the summer of next year. So I'm gonna be paying an absurd amount of rent until next year.
Trash:Dude, renting California is, like, the worst thing, but that's what's even worse is, like, interest rates are so high. So I'm, like, looking at houses. So I'm, I just have to, like, put a fat down payment just so, like, to minimize it. But you can always refinance, right? But dude, it's crazy.
Dax:Yeah. We're in a weird situation with that too. Like we have our apartment in New York which we have like a two two interest rate on. Mhmm. Fantastic.
Trash:You own it?
Dax:Yeah. Oh, snap. So we got that like six years ago, but we moved, we don't live in it anymore. We have a tenant. Would love to sell it, but like, then I lose my nice low mortgage to then like pick up a like a 7% mortgage now somewhere here.
Dax:The prices here haven't, like, gone down or reflect the high interest rate. It's just that nobody is buying or selling, so there's, 10% amount of inventory they normally should be.
Trash:So How much are you making off the top of your of their rent?
Dax:We lose money.
Trash:Oh, you're losing money on your New York place with your tenant?
Dax:Yeah. New York City apartments don't really turn a profit. You the only reason people own them is the long term appreciation is like very good historically.
Dax:Right.
Dax:So whatever money we lose theoretically, we could make it back when we sell it. I'm just hoping to break even on the whole thing because then it'll be like, didn't pay rent for the the five years I lived there. But, yeah, like if you add up the taxes and the maintenance for the building, and we still haven't paid off the mortgage so we're still paying the mortgage. Like we lose money even with the tenant that we have have been there.
Trash:Wow. I thought you'd be making like a grand on top or something. I guess that's not the No.
Dax:We lose like $800. If we had paid the mortgage off then yeah, we'd be making money but you know.
Adam:Oh. Not not yet. So yeah, it's brutal. It's brutal everywhere.
Trash:What about you, Adam? Like, are you is your stuff paid off or no? I doubt it. You live like in a kingdom. So I don't know.
Trash:I don't know how that what that payment plan is.
Adam:No. We've we've I mean, we've got a low interest rate. It's like two and a half, I think. We may have been when it was on the upswing.
Trash:What year was that?
Adam:Two years ago. Yeah. So we've been in this house two years now. I know.
Dax:My friend bought a house, like, the month before the interest rates started going up and I was like and it it was it was after, like, two years of looking for a house and he finally bought one in, like, perfect timing and I hate them forever.
Adam:Oh, yeah. There's I have friends that I hate still because I know they moved, like, during it's like they sold right at the peak before the housing crisis in o eight, and they moved across the country and bought at these crazy low prices after it had crashed. Like, East Coast had crashed. I don't know. It's like they made this huge windfall.
Trash:Yeah. I should have kept my I should have kept my house when I moved. Mistake. Big mistake.
Dax:Also, the people that bought at the beginning of the pandemic, that was also really crazy. So in the neighborhood that I'm in oh, here's something crazy. So I the house I'm in right now, I rent in Miami. It's a fantastic place. I'd love to literally buy this place.
Dax:The landlord bought it right at the beginning of the pandemic. Because if remember the beginning of the pandemic, everyone was like, oh, no, like, I don't know, house prices are like everyone was just panicking. So they were selling their houses for like very low. He bought this place for 600 k and I saw on the history, he listed it for a year later, literally one year later for $1,700,000. What?
Dax:And I'm like, you motherfucker. No one bought it, but he like tried to sell
Dax:it Right.
Dax:For like three times the price. Insane.
Adam:I have never once in my life bought something low and sold it
Dax:high. I don't way around for me.
Adam:Always the other
Dax:way around.
Dax:Same. Timing does not work out for me.
Trash:Yeah. I guess don't take financial advice from this stream.
Dax:Yeah. Don't. Yeah.
Trash:Oh my god. Yeah.
Dax:Yeah. The only financial advice I have is just to make more money. That's like, just just make nothing's gonna help besides making more more and more money.
Adam:I feel like I've been able to be pretty bad with money just making a lot of money in tech my whole career. It's like, kinda glosses over all the mistakes.
Dax:The timing problems and all that. Yeah. Yeah. That's only that helps.
Trash:I mean, that's what's nice when you have like a good income. It's like you kind of don't have to pay as close attention to these kind of things. Right? Yeah. But then when you kind of look back at it, you're like, man, I'm like a teenager with my money and just Yeah.
Trash:Seriously spending everything. It's ridiculous. Oh my god.
Adam:In The Ozarks, like, it's a pretty I mean, it's not a super, like, high income area. So I've had a lot of family and friends ask, like, could you help us with our finances? Like, I don't know anything about it. Like, I've not just make money. Just make more money and most problems go away.
Trash:I think you're literally the only person I know that, like, is associated with The Ozarks at all. Like, I didn't even know it was a real place. I only knew about it because of Netflix.
Dax:Thought it was just a mountain. I literally thought it was a mountain.
Trash:I just know it as a TV show. I still actually don't even know where it is.
Adam:It's it's just the middle of the country. It's like there's, like, a mountain it's like a hilly area in the middle of the country called the Ozarks.
Trash:I just know you post pictures of your surroundings, it looks grim.
Dax:Oh, it it I mean, it's like
Adam:I mean, it's it's pretty, like, from, like, a if you like, like, outdoorsy stuff. There's a lot of, like, hiking and rivers and caves and stuff like that.
Trash:Are you, like, in a neighborhood of, like, similar houses? Are you just kind of like this like nice place in the middle of like nothing and everyone's kind of looking at you like
Adam:No. It's like we've got an HOA and it's it's like a nicer neighborhood in
Dax:the area. But yeah.
Trash:I just imagine, like, you go to the grocery store and you're like, oh, it's that rich guy coming in. It's everyone, look. It's the rich guy.
Adam:It's the king. The king is
Trash:here. How are doing, mister Adam? We have
Adam:your milk ready for you today.
Dax:It's freaking what is it? Almond milk? What do you drink,
Dax:Adam?
Adam:We drink all of them. Just not stuff that comes out of animals. So we drink soy
Trash:Are you vegan?
Adam:Cashew. Yeah. We've been vegan for, like, ten years. It's so hard to talk about being vegan because of the perception of, like, I'm vegan, by the way.
Trash:Well, it's like you use Vim. You're vegan. It's like you're, like, adding all these,
Adam:Trying to be, yeah, trying to be annoying like Dax. Dax is he's got a big list. CrossFit.
Dax:At least I'm not vegan.
Trash:Dax is definitely not vegan. He's just, like, posting steak photos. Okay. Hold on. Question about this.
Trash:That's was it Stefan? Stefan? Stefan. Yeah. Is he, like is that his boat?
Trash:Like No.
Dax:No. No. It's not his boat.
Trash:Every time he posts a picture of, like, that dude, like, they're doing, like, rich things. I'm just, who's the rich person in this, like, dynamic? I don't care.
Dax:The the thing about Miami is it's very very easy to become adjacent to a incredibly rich person. So everyone here is always doing rich shit because there's like, one out of every 20 people is like stupid rich and then they just throw parties with 20 other people. So that's why like Miami is the spot to go if you wanna look rich because someone will help you out.
Trash:So are you hanging out with other tech bros or they just like
Dax:There's no tech bros Is
Trash:it just you?
Adam:Yeah. It's all yeah. Just me.
Trash:Is it just you and and Stefan?
Dax:Yeah. Just me and Stefan. It's the two of us. No. Well, it's okay.
Dax:What are rich people here like? So there's a mix of, like, just very traditional stuff like real estate. Family has a bunch of real estate, whatever. There's south rich South Americans that, live here half the year or whatever, like their family's here. There are people rich from like the random stuff.
Dax:I was telling Adam there's like a house that is like crazy near us where the family just sells crackers and that's it. They just sell like the food.
Trash:What's the what's the what's the brand?
Dax:I don't remember. It's like it's like a very Cuban specific thing. Liz's uncle is like like stupid rich and he owns just a bunch of health clinics here. A lot of like small businesses that have scaled to like as big as a small businesses can scale. So there's just a lot of that.
Dax:So yeah, there's always just rich people but they're never they're never really in tech. Some of that is starting to show up The
Adam:OnlyFans towers?
Dax:There's those. Those people aren't really rich, but they are serving
Trash:OnlyFans what?
Dax:Oh, yeah. I guess trash didn't know this so
Trash:I don't I don't I don't why. Don't look at OnlyFans. I don't even know what that is.
Dax:I don't even know what that is.
Dax:But you have a profile. I thought you posted there. So Miami builds like a crazy amount. It's not like other cities that are just like, bottlenecked by housing. Like we built a shit ton of housing.
Dax:There's always like tons of cranes everywhere. There's an area that we refer to as the Only Fans Tower. So there's a bunch of these like brand new buildings. And I swear, like, 40% of the people that live there are just a 100% OnlyFans people. And you can tell, you just walk by, see people coming out, it is very obvious.
Dax:And you're like So they refer to the OnlyFans towers.
Trash:They're definitely on OnlyFans.
Dax:Liz's, Liz's sister has been trying to so he so she's been trying to find a roommate. And in Miami, like, the whole living with roommates thing is not very common because most people just live with their family. Like, people don't leave Miami. Like, you are born here, you grow up here, you stay with your parents, even while you're working. Maybe when you get a maybe when you get married or get a boyfriend and you, like, move out with your boyfriend or your husband and then you, like, live on your own.
Dax:So there's not a lot of people that have roommates. And the other thing she was complaining about was, like, the only people I can find are, like, OnlyFans people that just make their whole rant in, like, a day. And yeah. So she found that really, really frustrating.
Trash:Oh my god.
Dax:That is over here. That's a vibe.
Trash:We need a we need a streamer house. I mean, that's kind of like how it is in LA. It's like there's a lot of just content creator houses. Right? And just people are just I don't know.
Trash:It's just the whole content creation thing is I hate and like it because obviously, I'm like somewhat in it. But it's like but it's like I look in the mirror and I'm like, who am I?
Dax:Who am I? I'm not successful enough to be like one of those people, you know?
Trash:It's like, ugh.
Adam:Yeah. How much does your wife know about, like, your online persona? Does she, Oh,
Trash:does. Look at your stuff? I mean, like, I'm not, like, famous or anything, but, like, when I first started streaming, we lived in a smaller place in in LA. So I would literally be streaming, and I'm in the living room. She's watching TV right there.
Trash:And, like, I'll just be saying stuff, and she'll just, like, turn over and be like, what are you talking about? And it's just like, I don't know. And she's you can just see her watching TV behind me because the post wasn't big. And she's just
Dax:like and, like, I
Trash:used to, like, get drunk a lot before I had my second kid. I would just, like, code and drink until I couldn't comprehend anything and then go to bed. So what would happen is I had, like, this dance redemption. I would just, like, dance, some more redeemed dance, I'll just be drunk dancing in the living room. And she's like she was just, like, get her phone, she's like, you're so Slowly instead of it.
Trash:I do like the the Twitter thing, but I don't really, like, stream on
Adam:Wait. Getting away from
Trash:mean, I'm just, like, I'm just trying to, like, focus more on, like, more important things.
Adam:Netflix?
Trash:I guess. Like, well, I mean, it's, like, now, like, I'm, like, excited about things I'm building, which is it's been a while since I've been excited about building something. So now I've just been, like, kinda tunnel visioned on that, and all my free time mostly goes to that. I mean, I stole, like, shitposts on Twitter. Like, that's, like, my my bathroom thing.
Trash:But, like, now that, like, you know and it's kinda like with, like, you guys and your products. Right? It's like you have, like, successful products. Right? And, like, you wanna build things for it or build things on top of it.
Trash:And that's kind of like, I'm starting that era, I think, for myself. And so I'm pretty, like, stoked on it. So, yeah, I've just been, like, heads down just doing my doing my thing. You know what I mean? Like, you guys are engineers.
Trash:Like, when you're, like, excited to build something, you know that feeling to just, like Yeah. Zone out, kinda ignore stuff. And, like, now that like, I've kind of reignited that passion, like, I can I'm starting to like look at all these other things like, oh man, like, it's not as fun. Not as I won't I won't say it's not fun because I definitely wanna keep doing it, but it's like, well, I have something more important that I need to do at the moment.
Dax:Your ideas are just kinda
Trash:shifting around. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, to be honest, like, on Twitch was never, like, a priority. Twitter's never a priority.
Trash:Like, you know, we all love Twitter, but it's, like, you know, it's it's it's a time sink because we just need to be distracted and, you know, I don't know, we just need to feel something, I guess. And it is fun because it's like you're just like it's like you're just in a chat room with all your friends, right? That's that's like what makes it, like, fun. You know, I know you guys can relate. Like, you know, if we go through these ups and downs, I'm not saying this is a down, but you go through times where it's like, well, what am I doing?
Adam:Yeah. What am I getting out
Trash:of Like,
Adam:what am ask that question all the time.
Trash:Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, what am I actually doing? So, like, I've been slowly, like, not, like, time tracking my stuff on these apps, but, like, being, okay. Put the put the phone down and let's do something else and then, like, be productive, I guess.
Dax:Yeah.
Trash:Yeah. So that's, like, kind of where I'm at now. So and I'm not saying like now that I found like this new love of what I'm building, I'm better than like all the people doing these other things. That's not the case. It's just that I will get back to it because it's just who I am.
Trash:Like, I love talking to people. I love building communities.
Adam:You share about what you're working on? I've seen you kind of tease some stuff on Twitter. What can you tell us?
Trash:Yeah. I mean, we're just building literally just like if you know me, I'm super hardcore about TypeScript. I love just TypeScript in general. So imagine just like a platform. So there's like Matt Pocock's platform, like, told TypeScript for, like, learning and stuff.
Trash:But it's like a merge of, like, that, the type challenge GitHub repo, which if you have ever been into type challenges, I was, like, super into that for a while. We're bringing that. So it's, like, merge that with LeetCode, but then merge it with, like, the social aspects of, like, social media. So being able to, like, oh, man, that's a cool solution. Let me comment and share mine and blah blah blah.
Trash:But then, like, if anyone's ever used TypeScript Playground, it's really hard to, like, collaborate on those things.
Dax:So, like, you
Dax:share it.
Trash:You have, like, this huge link and blah blah blah. So we have we're pull we basically built our own TypeScript Playground, but, like, we're making it better. Like, it's just a better TypeScript playground mixed with LeetCode, mixed with the educational aspects of, like, teachers like Matt and, like, other platforms.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah.
Trash:So, yeah, I mean, at the end the day, it's more it's more or less like LeetCode on steroids, but specifically for TypeScript and specifically, like, just to be able to, like it's like it's a very niche group. It's for people that are just, like, really into it. Right? Like, so you see, like, on, like, Matt Pocock's side, he does like a he has a target audience, right? People that are either super hardcore into it, doing weird generic stuff, or people that just want to get better.
Trash:So it's kind of scratching both of those itches. So you can imagine there's a number of categories that you can use for like challenges. So we have like beginner, so like you just started, and then all the way up to expert. But the cool part is we're gonna try to benchmark your TypeScript. So the idea there is if you're a library maintainer and your TypeScript's slow, we want we you to just come to our platform and copy and paste your TypeScript and we'll actually benchmark it for you.
Trash:So when you think about TypeScript now and you're kind of comparing your solutions, you don't know which one's better. You basically go off of readability, you're like, Oh man, I can't read this, but I can kind of read this. But there's also another element because the TypeScript compiler is limited on how much it can handle, right? So tRPC is a project I've been involved in, and when you have inference and crazy stuff going on, you hit a limit and the TypeScript compiler hits a wall. So with the with the benchmarking, we can kind of help you, like, identify those things.
Dax:So that's a big thing. So I am like, similar to you, I'm, like, really into just going crazy with the TypeScript stuff. An area that I have not spent any time in is figuring out the some of those performance things and
Trash:No one has. Or no
Dax:one Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And and but I'm like, I like notice it all the time. So like I have some new SC console for example, like we do a lot of crazy inference stuff there. And I'm noticing stuff slowing down and I have no idea how to even profile it to figure out like, what's actually going on.
Dax:Is there even a better way to do this? Yeah, the area is lacking and I'm kind of like, this needs to get figured out either by the compiler getting better, which is obviously ideal. Mhmm. Or at least like, some awareness of how to do things to avoid like the things that make the compiler slow.
Trash:Right. Exactly. So, like, that feature is, like, the nice to have, but that's, like that feature will tap us into because, like, when you think about LeetCode, people compare each other by, like, space time complexity. But it's, okay. Well, how do we do that with TypeScript?
Trash:Well, I guess with benchmarking it with whatever tool we're gonna use, right? That's like the differentiator. But it's not like a need for what we're gonna do, but it's like it's something I want because there's obviously a spectrum of users from beginner to expert, but then there's like the library authors and stuff like that. So it's like they're they tend they already kind of know TypeScript to like a pretty deep level, so I don't really see them doing challenges other than like just for game. Like like, hey, check out mine.
Trash:It's like you see that on Twitter. People are like, look at my challenge verse or look at my solution verse, like, yours, like, Andres versus, like, Matt when they're, like, sharing solutions. Right? But then it's like but like you said, like, the whole, like, performance thing, like, Sachin from the t r p c court team, he had a blog because he went deep down the performance bottleneck because we were trying to figure that stuff out. But it's like, yeah, how can I just, like, make that consumable for, like, like, the average person?
Trash:So, like, I can't, like, promise it's gonna be like, oh, your bottleneck is right at line five or something. But we should always be like, this one's this one's faster than that one
Dax:Yeah. At least. Because right now it's a total mystery, and I only really feel it in my editor and, like, how long the autocomplete takes to That's pop
Trash:the only time you know it's like, oh, it's slowing down. I guess I'm doing something wrong. Right? And that's kind of like what we do on t p c. We kind of like generated this huge type, and when it breaks, we know that something slowed down.
Trash:You know what I mean? Yeah. It's it's crazy.
Dax:I was gonna ask, has anyone done like the thing that you're envisioning sounds really cool. Has has anyone done the type of thing before? I imagine that probably no because you need the language to be like at a certain scale for someone else to be really viable and TypeScript is at such a huge scale. But like are you drawing inspiration from anything?
Trash:I mean, I'm drawing inspiration from me really being in the type challenges and
Dax:Mhmm.
Trash:Just it's on GitHub, and GitHub is very limited. Right? So it's like Yeah. Like, if if I wanna, like, solve something, it takes me to TypeScript playground, and then it's like, if I wanna share the solution, gotta make a pull request and share it, and then people can comment on the GitHub platform. But I wanted to just bring that all into one place.
Trash:One, make it look nicer. So, like, you can literally it's literally like LeetCode for, like, TypeScript, but, like, some extra stuff, really. But then it can kind of grow into something else. But that's, like, the base model. But, yeah, it just comes from, like literally it just comes from my love of just doing TypeScript challenges and always having the shared TypeScript playgrounds and not being annoying.
Trash:So I just want something to like kind of like track all that stuff for me.
Dax:It's more streamlined for this exact Yeah.
Trash:Like I can go you can go to my profile. You can see so the cool thing about this is that you'll be able to create your own challenges too. So it's like all user generated. So it's like if you're, you know, someone that's really into TypeScript, but you know, you don't really have a platform to share it, you can go on our platform, share something, but there's like a moderation tool behind it, right? Like we don't want anyone to just like make challenges and spam stuff.
Trash:But, yeah, so that's, like, the cool part. So, like, the idea is, like, you can spotlight creators. Like, for instance, if we do launch, we'd be like, okay. Let me invite, like, a bunch of people I know in the TypeScript community. Like, here's the collection of, like, Dax's problems.
Trash:Check it out. And you can go through and solve them and share your solutions, upvote, share, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it's just like it's just a cool way to, like, spotlight certain creators. Like, right now, like, Leetcode, you can't I don't know if you can create anything. It's kinda like you have this laundry list of stuff.
Trash:So I kinda just wanna, like, make it more community based. But also, like, hard part about that is, like, you know, moderation and stuff. So we're building moderation tools behind it, but then also discoverability. So obviously, like, we want everyone to be seen, so there's gonna be, like, different sections. You know?
Trash:This is what's hot today or this is what's most recently solved. Like, you can kind of, like, you can kind of, like, draw on the possibilities on this, like, forever, but that's, like, the MVP.
Adam:Who's working on it with you? You keep saying we. Is it, like, your community?
Trash:So the cool thing is that I started this by myself, and then my community was like, dude, we wanna help. So then, like, 15 people jumped on, and we've just like I think we probably have, like, a solid group of, like, seven constant, like, contributors. Like, every day we're just, like, pushing stuff. So, like, we went from, like, here, and now we're, like, as far as progress, we're here. Like, the launch date is, like, is getting closer and closer.
Trash:So it's, like, insane that, like, people were willing to rally behind me to kind of work on this. So it's, like, been pretty neat to see that I've built a community to where people want to help me, but it also validates my idea that people want to see it come to fruition, right? And I think this is actually going to do well, mainly just because, like, it's just the TypeScript's booming. Right? Like, if you look at any job job thing, like, web web dev jobs are plentiful.
Trash:I wanna say plentiful, but there's a lot of them. But TypeScript's, like, more or less, like, a standard now. So I want to be able to So when you think about people going to LeetCode to practice for job interviews, you could go to my platform to get better at this so you can get better at your job. But again, it's a flavor because as you get more complex with your challenges, you really don't wanna go in there unless you're, like, a library author or you're writing, like, utils that are actually usable. But there is, like, gonna be an aspect for people that are like, you know, I just wanna what's a string?
Trash:What's a number for all that easy stuff? Like so it's, like, something for everybody, I guess.
Adam:Alright. Is this all, like like, I'm assuming open source?
Trash:It's gonna be open It's closed source right now, but it's gonna be. We've been using the app directory. It's just been crazy.
Adam:Oh, Zach, what
Dax:what I was gonna ask, what is the stack and how's it going?
Trash:So we're using Aptr because I was like I started out by myself and I was like, do want me to just try AppDirectory because I wanna have some opinions on Everyone's talking trash about it, like, I haven't actually used this. Let me try it. And then we're messing between Drizzle and Prisma. We have like a PR for Drizzle, and then we also have Prisma right now. I don't know what we're gonna do.
Trash:Probably Drizzle, if I had to guess. And then we're using PlanetScale because I just wanted to try PlanetScale for fun. I don't know if that's actually like, we're still, like, at a spot where we can just switch that out. It's not It's it's not hard, right? It's just a matter of, like, is that important?
Trash:Because I just want to build features, and if someone wants to, like, tackle the the DB layer, they can. But, like, yeah, like, we're trying to do, like, polymorphic, like, relationships, and, like, that just doesn't exist in, like, Prisma. So, like, we're just hitting, like, a lot of, like, weird patterns that you just can't do in Prisma.
Dax:Yeah.
Trash:So it's so I don't know if I don't even think, like, Drizzle can do. I don't know any RMs can actually do them.
Dax:No. I mean, the polymorphic thing is a big problem in relational databases, right? Because it's like, there's a few different ways you can model them and they all suck. I just end up throwing it in a JSON column and then I'll like type I'll type it in, because Drizzle has a nice integration with Zod, so I'll define the union Mhmm. There.
Trash:Gotcha. Okay. I might like to talk to you offline about that. Because right now, like, we're like, well, we had someone else take us. We just have like separate tables to like represent these relationships and we're just like, okay.
Trash:So now we kinda have, like, duplicate tables. So you can imagine, like, maybe you have, like, a challenge comment. You can comment on someone's challenge, but then you can comment on someone's solution. We now have, like, a solution comment and, like, a challenge comment versus,
Dax:like Yeah.
Trash:One table that kind of, like, helps direct that. I don't know. I would love to get your opinion and like how we could make it better, but
Dax:Yeah. It's just one of those things where that is like, you know, if you go talk about the relational database normal form stuff, the way you guys are doing it is more correct, but I find in practice that just doing it in a JSON column and having your applicate only your application understand the union is like practically like an easier thing to deal with. Mhmm. But yeah, we we can talk about it. Yeah.
Dax:It's one of the one of the main, like, especially when you do so much TypeScript, you're you realize like how useful like unions are and like algebraic data types are. And you're just so used in wanting that ability everywhere and it's just such a pain in a relational database. And I feel this way across like another languages too. Like now when I go to any language that doesn't that can't do that type of thing, it's like very painful.
Trash:Yeah, it's super annoying and I saw like some other people mentioning it and I was just kind of going down the rabbit hole and no one really has like great solutions. I'm just like, all right, we have right now, it works. We're at the point where make it work, we can make it better later kind of thing. We'll pay that tax, yeah, I don't know. But yeah, far as App Directory, I wanted to have an opinion on that.
Trash:The dev server like, I just tweeted, like, two days ago. Was like, please like, I think I think the the dude from, like, Flight Control made that really funny tweet about deploying his best engineers. I
Dax:was like I was
Trash:like, what a weird tweet.
Dax:And then, like, now I'm so him. Funny. I'm, like, him right now
Trash:because you it's like I click on something and, like, if I literally have, like, cold starts, like, locally. Right? It it that's, like, the best way to describe it. I click on it, and I'll literally just go, like, scratch my foot or something and just, like, wait. And then it loads.
Trash:So, like, right now, you can imagine we have, like, this tab container. Each tab container is a route because we wanna be able to deep link all of those. So every time you click on a tab, it has to compile that thing on the fly.
Dax:Oh, man.
Trash:So it's, like, just to interact with stuff, it's, I wait, like, ten seconds, and then everything starts loading and, like, starts flickering everywhere. I'm like, is that a bug on my end? So I have to do like a prod build to make sure it's like okay. I'm hoping it's getting better. Everyone's saying it's gonna get better.
Trash:Like right now, the only pain point really is just the dev server, which is literally the entire local experience. So I can't really say it's not a big deal, because it is. I But don't know. Guillermo said he has his best people working on it based on that Twitter.
Adam:No. But is he throwing
Dax:50 engineers on it? That was the
Trash:demand. Know, dude. I'm about to, like, ask him, like, so how many how many people are you like, can you tag who's working
Adam:Can on double it? Yeah. So Whatever it can we double?
Dax:Yeah. I think, I think people get stuck on this type of thing a lot where sometimes there's stuff that's bad because foundationally and architecturally, it can never be good. And like, yeah, you should like worry about that or like try to avoid it. Then there's situations like this where there's actually nothing wrong foundationally, it's just that it just needs more time. And that's my feeling as well, like, give it enough time, it'll be fine.
Dax:And it's funny because you brought the the Prisma Drizzle thing. So I put Prisma in the other category. I think foundationally, it's wrong Mhmm. Architecturally and there's nothing you can do to fix some of the issues in it. And when I like initially was posting about Drizzle, people were like, oh, like, no, you shouldn't use Drizzle because it's missing feature a b c d whatever.
Dax:But those aren't features that are missing because there's like a foundational problem. They're just not there yet. And if you the fast forward now six months later, like most of those features are there. But yeah, that's why I think we're just in like a weird phase with Next. Js.
Dax:Again, I'm I have all these opinions about Next. Js and I still have not used
Dax:it even once. I haven't even
Dax:used it even once. Look how smart I sound.
Dax:Don't I sound like I know what I'm talking about? Prisma sucks. I
Trash:use it. No. It's
Dax:not Prisma's gonna be Prisma's a different story. It's man, I can tell you. I can tell you all of kind stories. It's because every three days, there's, like, some question in our help channel, like, how do I use Prisma with serverless? And I have to spend the next fifteen minutes arguing with them, explaining them why it's a bad idea and it won't work.
Trash:You gotta make a command. You just make a command called Prisma and they'll just explain every all the things you
Dax:I started doing that. You know what I did? I I wrote a message where I was like I was so sick of it because I was like, this isn't our problem. Like, this is really is not our problem. We like, why do we have the burden of supporting this?
Dax:So I wrote a message that was just like, unfortunately, like, we cannot assist with problems with Prisma. Like, we need to redirect you back to the Prisma community and hopefully, they can help you figure it out. Mhmm. But it was very frustrating because like for literally two years, the the annoying part was we understood it very well because it's very popular. It's almost very quickly we're like, hey, do we help people deploy this in a in a Lambda function, in a Lambda function.
Dax:And we tried really hard and we ran to all these issues and we understood what was broken into the hood. And then for years, nobody believed us. Literally, would come to us and then we would explain this to them and be like, no, they said it should work. And we're just like, what the like, what what like, what do you do you want? Like, I can't I feel like getting into like a weird argument with them.
Dax:And I think finally, it's like shifted around and even this morning, I think Prime Stream Prime rated us, by the way. He like, he was reading some article about about these issues, but it took so long. It took like two and then those two years, I was just support ticket after support ticket after support ticket. It's, it's really deep hatred in my heart Well has grown.
Dax:Main thing
Trash:is like, Prisma is just large. Right? So like, is that like that's contributing to like the startup time?
Dax:Yeah. I think if I explain I think the way I understand it is, they're very ambitious early on. They're like, we're gonna be the ORM for not just TypeScript but for, like, many languages. So if that's your goal, you wouldn't TypeScript, you write your core in some language that is portable across various places. Right?
Dax:So they wrote their core in Rust, and then they wrote like a TypeScript, like adapter for that, like, calls into it, like, spends with the Rust thing locally. That talks to database and it just has an API for TypeScript to interact with. And they also built a Go version of this. Over time, they realized they really were only getting adoption in TypeScript and they dropped the Go one. At this point, they're, like, very focused on TypeScript, but they still have this legacy architecture of, like, splitting these two things.
Dax:And Rust binaries are very big, spawning an additional process, like, when when, like, a Lambda function starts up, it's just gonna be slow. There's just a bunch of issues with that. The size increases Lambda function cold start times. Again, none of these are problems in a container environment, like, you wouldn't even notice this.
Trash:Yeah. Exactly.
Dax:But with everyone deploying, like, using Prisma and Next and Vercel was like a very common pattern. A lot of our users also just defaulted to Prisma and, yeah, every single one of them had like two or three seconds
Trash:That's of productivity, man. Everyone can just get started really fast and then you hit these things and you're like, woah.
Dax:Everyone gets started really fast and then annoy the shit out of me six months later. That's that's kinda what that's kinda how it goes.
Trash:So, like, so does Drizzle kind of address, like those performances? Yeah.
Dax:So Drizzle is like we're only gonna be TypeScript from day one, so they wrote everything in TypeScript and their patterns were very good. So they've been able to adapt to long running connections like a direct Postgres or MySQL connection or like new like HTTP based APIs like PlanetSkills, or Neon's APIs or even AWS has one. So yeah, it's it's worked really well. It it does make you know a little at least there's like two layers to Drizzles. There's like a core which is like a close to SQL SQL builder, so you feel like you're mostly running SQL.
Dax:Then there's like a higher relational layer which like is a very similar API to Prisma. So like you think in terms of the objects and relationships and things like that. I don't use that second part. I'm fine just doing like the raw SQL feeling things.
Trash:Is that more like key slayer or whatever you call it?
Dax:Yeah, exactly. So we initially, when we ran to the Prisma problem, we're like, hey, we got like, Prisma is a good solution in terms of as to type safety and, like, knowing your schema and writing your your queries in a type safe way. Let's find something that does that. So we found I've been pronouncing it kaisley. I think they're now official It's pronounce a kisela or something like that.
Trash:I don't know about that for now. Maybe that sounded raw. Kissela?
Dax:I don't know.
Trash:It's it's I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I know Eagall. I forget his name. I think it's, like, Eagall.
Trash:He's on the he works for them, but I he was trying to pronounce it for me. I was like, bro, don't know.
Dax:No. It's a a tough name to pronounce. It's that's the hardest part about that. So we found that initially, but that only did the querying part and did the schema management part. And then the Drizzle people, it's funny because I had known about them for a while because they, like, commented on some of my thing.
Dax:I was like, I retweeted, I like, oh, this one's cool, but I never actually looked into it. And I finally looked into it six months later because they, like, saw me struggling with Prisma on a Twitch stream. They actually watched the whole stream after I streamed it, then like annotated every timestamp and was like, here's how we solve this, here's how we solve this, here's how we solve this. I was like, holy shit.
Trash:About Drizzle? The Drizzle folks? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Trash:Okay.
Dax:This is before like anyone was really using them and I was like, wow. One, that's like brilliant of them to like go and like really like spend the time to do that and like tell me and then so I eventually ended up checking them out.
Trash:Is that what happens when you don't have any users? You just watch the live streaming? Yeah.
Adam:You're just trying to get
Dax:one user. And I was like, this is it. This is the thing we've been looking for but man, it's been a it's been a journey.
Trash:Okay. That's awesome. I I see so I see a lot of people using Prisma for like the type generation, but then they feed that into something else. So then they don't have to actually ship Prisma. They just use it as a type gen as a code generator.
Dax:I still find it kinda heavy. Well, think it's absolutely heavy. Like Like even the local dev part, find
Adam:it kinda heavy and like
Dax:Drizzle skips a type generation part because it's all inference. But people like the Prisma like file.
Trash:But there's a cap on that like, depending on how big your scheme is. Right?
Dax:Yeah. I do wonder when when it'll be too slow. Haven't hit it yet because I use SQL in a weird way. But
Trash:Yeah. So it's like, it's great, like, people use inference. Right? It's like there's there's a limit on, like, how that scales. Like, if you're, like, a large business, like, I don't know if you can actually use that.
Trash:Like, at Netflix, we we TypeScript would just, throw up on the floor and pass out for sure.
Dax:Yeah. I mean, even in even in the stuff that I work on like, like Boomi, and my wife's company like that. There are some parts of that that are like really starting to slow down and this this needs to be solved. It's like a I think it's gonna be a real bottleneck for like, the real vision of TypeScript to really come around.
Trash:Wasn't wasn't the dude from Vercel, Don, making a TWs Yeah. Tiny C. Did he stop working on it? I can't remember.
Adam:No, dude.
Dax:I love I love this because
Adam:I remember I've been I've
Dax:been following on Twitter for a while. And I remember what he used to sound like before he started working
Trash:on it. Oh, he started working on it? Dude, hey.
Adam:He just he has the most depressing He's tweets
Dax:like, do I even like programming?
Adam:Because it's what I still wanna
Dax:do. He was like he was like,
Trash:I'm thinking about just giving this repo to somebody.
Dax:Was like, I don't know.
Dax:Will somebody save me? It's just like the most like, just blank stare, like, no. Just just nothing. It it took everything out of him.
Trash:It's like, it goes from, like, passion to just, like, despair. I'm just like, oh,
Dax:man. Yeah. He's seen some like that for, like, like, over a year now. So I think he just he just fucks.
Trash:I think he hit a wall where, like, he could do most of this stuff, but then the last, like, 20% was like, I don't know if I can actually make it work. I was like
Dax:It's tricky though because the TypeScript team also said that their issues aren't the language. Like they don't feel like rewriting it in a faster language would yield enough to be worth it. Right. At least that was their last position.
Adam:Do do they actually talk about like, do they talk about the performance issues and like long term plan?
Dax:I don't know if they're gonna do anything about it. I have no idea. I haven't heard anything.
Adam:Is it just not a problem for most people? Is it only like very specific use cases or is it after you get to a certain point of complexity, it's gonna be slow?
Dax:I think as TypeScript has gotten more feature rich, people it's like when it gets 10% more features, there's like 200% more opportunity to do stuff with it. So I think that's kind of what we're experiencing now. Like it's got hit a threshold where we just all started doing really crazy shit with it. Not pointless stuff, like really useful stuff. Yeah.
Dax:So then then maybe just caught them off guard. Yeah. I don't really know. I haven't heard anything but
Adam:Is TypeScript like, is the type system in TypeScript so much better than other options so as to deal with the the disaster that is JavaScript on the back end. I mean, just all of the Node. Js and NPM baggage. Like, ultimately, TypeScript, it's a great experience. And, I mean, I'm not gonna say it's bad.
Adam:I just like there are so there's so much baggage in JavaScript land. Are there not other type systems that are good enough?
Trash:Well, the obvious one was Flow, which never took off that state at Facebook.
Adam:Well, I wasn't even talking JavaScript like other languages. Are there not yeah. Like, are there not other options for back end languages that give us 80% of the type system, whatever you guys like about advanced TypeScript?
Dax:Well, there's like a few things right there. Okay. Just a type system on its own. I do think there are better type systems, but I'm not talking about the insane ones. I I like the whole MLO camel family of like type systems.
Dax:I think that I think the best parts of TypeScript, like, when you write TypeScript well, you're pretty much writing it in that style. The difference is TypeScript has support more than that, has support all of JavaScript is why it's like their scope is wider. So there is I think there is some excitement around the the languages that are coming out of that family and even just even the ones that I compile to JavaScript. It's just not the ecosystem just isn't isn't there yet. So for me, I'm still sticking to TypeScript.
Dax:But if you look at some of the performance characteristics of like Rescript, and this is from a while ago, but like, it is so fast.
Trash:Is that ReasonML?
Dax:Yeah. There was like ReasonML and they split into Rescript and now there's like, Melange. I don't even know how you can pronounce it. But that's like a fork of the older it's it's it's complicated. But the compilation times on that are like insane.
Dax:Like, blows TypeScript out of the water. But it's very specifically because they're not trying to support all of JavaScript. They're just trying to support a subset Right. Which makes their job a lot easier.
Adam:I guess I just feel like there's so many things that I've heard you, Dax, even complain about in terms of the quality of the package ecosystem in JavaScript land. I mean, Node is a runtime, not the best. Like, there's just so many things that I feel like JavaScript on the back end has against it. But why why do you still is it it's just literally just because you wanna write the same language front end and back? Like, that's basically the main main reason for choosing it?
Trash:I mean, there's a number of reasons why you would do that for an engineering work. I mean, one example is, right, you write one language everywhere. That's like as far as productivity, that's what the business probably values more is you being productive. Right?
Adam:So well, on that point, like, don't but if we're doing stuff across the stack, we're writing other languages. Like, we have to write HTML. We have to write like, we have to all this markup and other things that are context switches. Like, we use a lot of tools. Whereas, like, I don't understand quite the value of, like, I'm writing TypeScript in my page, and I'm also writing it in my back end handler when I could just use a different language on the back end and not deal with all the ecosystem issues.
Dax:So I have a few requirements for this. So oh, well, also what you're describing is how I spent most of my career. Most of my career, I did not write JavaScript on the back end. And in fact, for a long time when people would say we're switching to node to have one language across stack, I didn't really understand the value. I was like, I don't get it.
Dax:Like, I'm writing two languages and it's and it's entirely fine. So it makes it like c sharp, Go, Elixir on the back end while obviously always writing JavaScript on the front end or JavaScript or TypeScript. So now having gone the other way where like, okay, I actually have used it in a full stack way. There are like a lot of like, as painful as some of it is, now that I've like learned it, I don't really deal with the badness of the ecosystem. The only time I feel the badness of the ecosystem is when I'm trying to support other people as a good dev tool engineer to like support their projects.
Adam:They make terrible choices.
Dax:Yeah. Like you guys have made bad decisions because the ecosystem really allows for some really terrible decisions and requires probably a lot of knowledge to make good ones. Yeah. So I don't personally feel that on my projects but I do see it how like the average project is not set up well. And but but also I have seen the benefit of writing the same language across the stack.
Dax:It's not something that is impossible not to do. Again, most companies I think do have split languages or like historically that's been the case. But I just see how much better I get. It's not the like like trust of the productivity, but you're also just getting better at it no matter what you're doing. Like from writing infrastructure code, I'm getting better.
Dax:From writing front end code, I'm getting better. From writing back end code, I'm getting better. And so like getting better at two different skills. Is that worth it? I personally don't think I would cling to it, and I'm happy to switch to a different language on the back end.
Dax:The only thing I'd really be giving up at this point is, like all the inference stuff. We'll probably introduce more code gen steps to like get types into the front end. Yeah. Annoying, but you can figure it out. But there actually is not a good option because the requirements I have is a very good expressive type system and a solid ecosystem where I'm not, like, writing my own clients for AWS APIs, things like that.
Dax:The only thing that fits in that category close is Go, but the Go type system is terrible. So I'm looking, I'm searching, and I'm happy to switch but nothing has really hit hit what I need.
Adam:Yeah. Hear people get so excited about like Tiege talks about OCaml so much and the type system's so amazing. But just immediately, my question is, like, the deployment picture coming from, like, an infrastructure back end or background. It's like, how does OCaml fit into I wanna deploy this stuff to AWS Lambda functions or some other random cloud provider. Like, I don't know that that deployment picture and I guess is that what you mean by the ecosystem?
Adam:Like
Dax:Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, the ecosystem on that on on that specific point is, like, in my control because we would just add OCaml support to SSC, which wouldn't be a ton of work really.
Adam:And I guess just a custom runtime for Lambda? Is that basically?
Dax:Yeah. It's actually what's great about OCaml, it's actually not a custom runtime, it's a zero runtime. Like, you don't incur the overhead of a custom runtime because you can just compile it natively and it just runs raw. So it's similar to Go or Rust where it would have really great cold sort characteristics. Yeah.
Dax:I just haven't I just haven't done it yet because no one actually
Adam:does this and no one's asking me for it.
Dax:No one's asking me for OCaml Lambdas.
Adam:Well, we're asking you now. Me and on behalf of Tiege, I'm asking you for OCaml Lambdas.
Dax:Can we go
Trash:OCaml Lambdas? Yeah.
Dax:OCaml OCaml Lambdas. Yeah. But like, you know, just the overall picture of like, there's tenors there's like a couple things I just need. I need like, again, AWS SDK support. So is there good AWS APIs?
Dax:Is there a really good database, like interface? Like we have Drizzle and TypeScript now. Is there something comparable? So there's like there's like a handful of things I need along with a good site type system and I haven't figured that out for any other language really. So as of now, I'm I'm here, I'll like if I have a performance issue, I probably will drop down to Go, like swap a function with Go just to make it run faster.
Dax:So it's nice about our setup, like just one part of your application can be a different language.
Dax:Yeah.
Dax:But yeah, again, like I I want it and I'm not satisfied but I just don't see what the option is.
Adam:Okay. So we're we're all stuck with TypeScript. Go ahead, Tresh.
Trash:Yeah. Was gonna say like, I don't think I've ever worked at a company where we actually wrote the same language on the front end and back end. Mhmm. It's always been a different language. And, like, I come from a similar background as DAX, maybe not similar, but, like, I've never wrote JavaScript on the back end, specifically, like, from, like, c sharp, Java, whatever.
Trash:But, like, I've seen the productivity, like, boost from just doing TypeScript. I don't I think, like, if I was gonna approach this from, like, an engineering leadership perspective, if I had the same language on both front end and back end, I get I can get more mileage out of one engineer. Right? Whereas
Dax:Yeah.
Trash:I would either have to find like an actual flow stack developer that doesn't actually really exist or have like two separate teams which a lot of companies do to have a back end team that specializes in and then they have a UI team. Right? But then it's like the communication complication is like gRPC or something. Whereas if you use like a mono repo approach with TypeScript, like you don't that's kind of abstracted away from me. You don't really notice it.
Trash:Right? But then you're in a mono repo, and then that comes with its own set of problems. Right? I don't Yeah, like, don't know what a good solution is. Like, I haven't actually seen, like, big projects use TypeScript from front of the back end, and that just could be from my ignorance.
Trash:I'm not looking for it, to be honest, so it could probably exist a lot of that. But from, like, all the big companies I've been at or, like, companies at scale, like it's always been like in my opinion, like if you want performance, you probably don't want JavaScript, right? So
Dax:Yeah. I think it's starting to happen now because I think our audience is mostly TypeScript on the back end. I would say the second highest is probably Go. And we typically, like, you're not gonna use SSD for like a random side project. It's usually for like like companies.
Dax:It's starting to it actually feels new even though jobs in the back end has been around forever. I think deployment story around it has made it so some of the performance that the traditional performance questions are now solved in a different way. Like, it doesn't matter if my little java single threaded JavaScript code is slow if I have the tools to easily like paralyze it across like a thousand parallel indications, right? That's become a lot simpler to do now. So we're seeing a lot more like real bigger companies use it on the back end, like it's starting to get more serious.
Dax:I think that's why there's a lot more demand now. Like I think you're you're seeing people come from these other ecosystems where they have better package managers, they have better packages and they're like, what the hell is this garbage? Like like, why isn't this better? So I'm optimistic that it's more likely that we'll make the JavaScript ecosystem better than when this like mythical thing that I want will actually show up from scratch. That's that's that's where my head is right now.
Trash:So it's gonna be CommonJS and ESM forever.
Dax:Oh, geez.
Adam:No. We need to kill CommonJS. That's another thing.
Trash:Wait. Time out. I'm gonna gonna switch this topic real quick. Weren't you guys making this gaming platform? What happened to that?
Adam:Oh, Rebase?
Trash:Yes.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. The game show?
Trash:Yeah. We're still making it. I mean, it's we we've been a little busy with other things. I've been I've been waiting for it. I've been waiting for it.
Adam:It's happening, I mean, this year. Like it's happening this year, right, Dex? Yeah. We need to catch up on it a little
Dax:bit but it definitely is something we're still gonna do. We made a good amount of progress on it. It's like, it's actually not a big thing to build just like the initial some of the initial stuff is like it's like, it's very simple at the end the day but me and Adam like to go pretty hard.
Trash:You're just pushing the boundaries? Yeah.
Dax:Because it's like and I felt this way about everything that I work on and this is gonna be interesting things. I'm talking to a linear founder next week and this is like a topic I wanna talk about where, sometimes your idea is just the same thing that's been around forever but the execution being at a much higher bar is your differentiator.
Trash:100%.
Dax:So that's the way I've like generally thought about things. So I tend to it's a little bit counter to like the ship garbage and like iterate on it later. I still kinda do that but like my I I like need things to be at a certain bar.
Trash:Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
Adam:This is actually it's a segue into a question I have for you, Trash, which is I I think about our problem of, like, time and bandwidth. If we just, like, opened it up and said, like, we could get people to help us, how has that gone for you? Like, do you have certain standards of things you wanna see? Like, just like how the app functions or maybe the the quality of what's being even produced. Has it been like a train wreck having seven people jump in and just, like, start pushing PRs?
Adam:How has that gone for you from a cold start of you're just working on it to now you've got all these people?
Trash:No. It's actually been very good because obviously, didn't just say I didn't just open the floodgates and be like, who wants to contribute at first? Like, the first, like, initial people were people I just know from the community, and they're all, like, pretty good engineers. So so far, like and they're, like, better than me in, like, other areas. So it's like, they can, like, be pretty much, like, have a nice, well rounded little core team.
Trash:But it's been great, like but the cool part is is we're letting, like, people that are trying to learn, like, limited amount, but people are trying to learn, so we have, like, a bunch of good first issues. I've been kind of wearing my, like, project manager hat and just, like, making the board nice so people can actually be productive and know what they need to do. -GIGI: Yeah. So, like, we have, like, tickets for everybody, right? For, like, all around the stack.
Trash:But, yeah, everything's been, like, surprisingly good. To be honest, like, we don't really we're kind of, like, in the make it work phase and maybe tweak it better. But, like, a lot of the really complex problems, thanks to, like, just libraries and tools that exist today, like, it's kind of hard to, like, mess things up terribly because you're kind of set in these guardrails almost. Like, you can mess it up, for sure. You can write shitty code.
Trash:But it can't be, like, so terribly bad. Like, I can glance at it and be like, oh, this is shit. Like, fix it. None of those scenarios have happened.
Adam:Yeah. I I I think less about the code quality, more just like I want it to work a certain way or I want, like just imagining the front end, people coming in and pushing PRs stresses me out. Like, I would be so overbearing about how the thing looks and works.
Trash:Yeah. You kinda have to learn to let that go a little bit because it's like, I'd rather have something than nothing to build on. Yeah. But to be honest, it's like like I said, the platform's almost like kind of like LeetCody. So it's like, you can kinda go to their platform and be like, make some assumptions on how behavior should be.
Adam:There's some patterns.
Trash:Know mean? So it's not like like, we're not making something like brand brand new for sure. But we're basically taking an existing platform and repurposing it for our needs. So we have something to go off of. It's like almost as if you're making, like, a Twitter clone, but instead of Twitter, it's just like programming code snippets or some shit.
Dax:You know
Trash:what I mean? Yeah. So it's like we're not starting from completely nothing like UX patterns. We can pretty much grab from there or tweak it to our own benefit. So it it hasn't been hasn't been good.
Trash:We actually have this one other engineer that joined who, like, is actually, like, a Tailwind bastard. So, like, I haven't It's been a while since, like, I've worked with someone, like, I've been like, Wow, you're, like, actually good at front end. Like, making shit look good and not, like, animations. I'm like, Oh, my God. I was like, All right.
Trash:You're the you're the tail one guy or whatever. So it's like, that's been, like, super helpful to just see, like, all these different skill sets kind of kinda merge together. But, yeah, it's it's great. It's great.
Adam:Okay. If you wanna send your little community when they're done, once you've shipped, you wanna send them over to us, we've got we've got a project that can help us with rebase.
Trash:When done, I'm down to help for sure. I'm just like, I always love building. Like, I feel like if I'm not building, I just I'm really bored, I guess. Yeah. I don't Do you guys I mean, I'm sure, like like, do you ever get so, like, I know you had, like, the stat muse thing, you had the SST thing.
Trash:Are you at some point or have you ever felt where, like, you're like, man, I'm kinda I kinda just wanna, like, do something else?
Dax:Yeah. I was gonna say this earlier when you were talking about it. I think with all the different things that we could spend time on, it's really nice when there's harmony with all of it and I think I've gotten to a place where it's really lucky and I'm really grateful for it. Like there is a lot of harmony between it, right? There's like, yeah, I love building.
Dax:I wanna build stuff and I have pretty much can work on whatever I feel like makes sense, right? So the last couple months has been a lot of fun and work building a new ST console. But all that is open source so that means I get to stream it when I feel like it and I don't have to stream it on days I don't want to. And I get to talk about it on Twitter and like, you know, make fun of people and then do all the stuff I love to do. And then once it's launched, then I get to do marketing for it like
Trash:Oh, yeah.
Dax:You're definitely video, whatever it is. Yes. The my my DevRel duties. Then I get to, like, make videos with people that I think are cool and, like, we'd have fun and we'd mix up together. So I think I find Harmony there's, like, a single thing I'm working on that I'm really excited, like you said, like you're really into the thing you're building.
Dax:And then actually, I can kinda express it in like every category of thing that that I can do. So I know it's super rare and it's hard stuff to align in that way but yeah, I think me having me having that just makes it so I can just work on this stuff forever and like not really get tired of it, which is really the only thing that matters.
Trash:Yeah, I think that's kind of the like, your environment is kind of where I kind of thrive in where like, I can tell like, you and your your teammates, you guys are, like, good friends. Right? Or,
Dax:like Yeah. Exactly.
Trash:So that's, like, one element, but then it's also, like, the freedom to be, like, working on what you think should be priority. That's, like, the best part, in my opinion.
Dax:It's, like, you don't want you don't Yeah.
Trash:You're working on it because you want to. You're not working I mean, sometimes you do obviously have to work on something because out of necessity. But being able to like be like, I wanna do this because I think it's important and also maybe because I also think it's exciting. So, like, those are, like, the best things. What about you, Adam?
Adam:Yeah. I think, like, before I went back to stat news, there were periods where I would just drift away from doing building, you know, like, getting my hands dirty. Like, just when I was messing around too much on Twitch or on Twitter. And then I would start to realize, like, I'm just too disconnected from actual technology. I'm not doing enough.
Adam:I think since I've been back at stat muse, I've got some pretty specific things that I'm pushing pretty hard on, so that's that's helped. But I've been known to be like, hey. I could do this thing. I I definitely, like, have new things I wanna start. I think I am addicted to, like, the greenfield, start up a new project thing and
Dax:then abandon it at some point.
Trash:I think that's, like, one kind of thing that I noticed when I so, like, to take this back to the earlier conversation, I was kinda saying how I was tail tailoring back my, like, interaction with the Internet. It's like I kinda felt where I was spending too much time there and actually getting worse at, like, programming because I just wasn't programming enough. Was instead of coding, I was just reading people's opinions on Twitter that were absolutely shit anyways. And, like and then, like, just I had like no no connection to be like, well, I can say an opinion, but I don't actually believe in it because I don't know because I haven't tried it. Right?
Trash:So I've always been a person that's like, I wanna try something or have an opinion, I have to build something with it. And then I can actually feel like I can bring value to the conversation where I think Twitter that's just not a thing. I mean, there's definitely people on Twitter I've got there's a subset of people that I go to or read to actually take serious information in. But most of it, it's like, you don't you don't like, maybe you know what you're talking about, but I don't actually trust you. So I'm gonna go, like, do it myself, and then, like, come from my own perspective at it.
Trash:But I also just don't like arguing on Twitter in general. I just like I mean, I like arguing, but not about tech. I just like being mean in general.
Adam:Come back to the East
Dax:Coast trash. We miss you.
Dax:I'll do that. I'll do that for sure.
Trash:But but, yeah, like, I think I think Dax's account is, a great, like, new addition, at least to my feed, because, like, I think everyone knows Dax is really or you too. You both are, like, very knowledgeable in the, like, serverless space or whatever space you guys, like, built outside of that. But at the same time, it's like, you're also a shit poster, and you can just make fun of people. But then when someone tries to be like, actually, you're like, well, no, actually. And then it's like the we like at least on my feet, there's a lot of that missing, so it's great to kinda see that stuff.
Trash:But now we're running out of serverless stuff to talk about, so now Dax is reaching real hard
Dax:now. I
Dax:know, man. I'm running out of sight. I said this, I ran out of smart stuff to say two months ago or so, and I've just been scrambling since then.
Trash:I was like, man, Dax is smart. I'm like, oh, and now he's degrading. Oh, he's degrading.
Adam:If we talk about anything else though, Dax, like the first time I talk with any like, with you about any topic that we've never talked about, I feel like you do have smart things to say about it. Like, somehow you've been very well rounded in life. Like, you've you've got a lot of inputs.
Dax:I told you. We've already talked about why. I've just read the right 10 books. 10 books?
Trash:Yeah. I still can't believe you as a writer of engineering. I can't imagine Dex being like my director. I'd be like, dude, you're like really mean.
Adam:I can't imagine that. That's why I posted that the
Dax:other day because I was like, wait, I was a director of engineering. Like, that's insane. Why the hell did anyone let that happen? But, yeah, I was in a pure management role.
Trash:It's like I've been in like engineering leadership positions too and I kinda feel bad because it's like I I can imagine like my old coworkers seeing my Twitter and they'll be like, what the hell? Like, is this Yeah.
Dax:I know. Think about it all the time. Because I know the stupid Between Two Nerds episodes. I do get posted in my old company Slack, and I'm like, are they just
Adam:like, remember when this dude was, like, deciding whether I get a raise or not? Like
Trash:Yeah. I think about that stuff constantly, to be honest. I'm like, is this actually gonna hurt me at some point? I don't think so because I don't really say like, too too spicy things. But yeah, I I definitely think about it sometimes.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. I think the way I think about it is I think I've narrowed
Dax:my like range of places I could work. But also I think I've like the places where I could work, think would be like very excited to have me. Right. So I think it's kinda like that trade off, probably somewhere for anyone kind of doing the stuff that we do.
Trash:Yeah. I mean, that's like the perspective I have. Like, they'll probably hire me because they're excited to wanna work with me and outside of that. Like, I think, like, after, like, I'm done with, like, the Netflix spiel, I'm probably gonna go back to the scrappy, like, smaller companies because I I I miss that for sure. And I that's why I kinda scratch my head outside just to, like, do stuff.
Trash:I'm not saying, like, the stuff I'm doing on Netflix is, like, boring or anything. It's it's fine.
Dax:Just different. Yeah.
Trash:Yeah. It's just different. For sure. For sure. But, like, the cool thing about, like, Netflix, it's not like other big companies where there's lot of decisions that need to be made above you before you can actually act on them.
Trash:It's like, we have like this freedom and responsibility to like, do you think it's a good idea? I'm like, yeah. They're like, go fucking do it. I'm like, alright, man. Just don't fire me if it doesn't go well.
Trash:So, like, that's like the cool thing about her, right?
Dax:So Yeah.
Trash:That's like one thing I do appreciate about like that company, but I do miss like just small
Dax:I wish we
Dax:all worked together at a big company and that would just be so funny. Oh, that'd be fun.
Trash:That's why open source exists. You just work on open source projects.
Dax:No. But it's funnier if we're all at a big company and we'll have, like, the same manager and we're, like, we're, like, in all hands
Trash:He meetings and just finds our Twitter. We're just talking shit about our manager. Like, dude, this is no idea what he's talking about. We're, like, oh, we're he's, like, watching the stream. He's, I think they're talking about Mirror.
Trash:I actually worry about that because my manager, he I know he's aware of, like, my Twitch stream and stuff. So, like, I'm just like, I have to be, like, somewhat conscious of what I say nowadays, but not too much. I don't I don't care, like, too too bad. I don't say, like I have common sense to, like, not speak for the behalf of, like, the company and stuff. You know?
Adam:Yeah. I hate I hate knowing who watch like, when I found out my parents watched my stream.
Trash:Oh my god.
Adam:So great. I just hate it.
Trash:It's so great.
Adam:It it hurts so it just like everything I say, I think through that lens. It's not like I even, like, try not to say things that I would have said. It's just you're thinking about
Trash:That's why got off Facebook.
Adam:Back of your head.
Trash:That's literally why I got off Facebook. My parents made an account, like, x years ago, and I was like, I'm gone. Actually, my mom looked at my LinkedIn profile, like, last week, and I just, like, just straight up cringed. I was like, fuck. She's like, she found
Dax:forget where you work.
Trash:Yeah. I mean, she has no idea what I do. She's like, you just you just code and stuff?
Dax:I'm like, yeah. They don't they
Adam:don't care. They're they're
Trash:just doing they're retired. They're doing their own thing.
Dax:It's it's the opposite for me. My job is literally to make fun of my manager publicly. So
Trash:Hey. Is your is Jay the is Jay your boss?
Adam:He's CEO. Yeah.
Trash:Is there like is there others? Is he is there like other co founders or is he like the one?
Dax:No. So there's there's three of us total. So like obviously these titles mean nothing when there's just three people. Yeah. Jay just technically has to do the shit that the CEOs have to do like talk to VCs and and all that.
Dax:He actually he is a very good CEO though. He's like very good at setting like thinking really hard about stuff and setting direction correctly. Mhmm. I I very much like the way he thinks about things. There's him and Frank.
Dax:They originally started the company together. Then and then I joined them like well, like, it wouldn't be two years. It's only been two years.
Trash:Yeah. I think that's kind of what I want next is like a really small company like that after, like, my kids grow up because I just have not enough time. But I kinda like I do like I do like working hard. I think working hard is great. If you're if it's the work you wanna do.
Trash:Right?
Dax:If it's the work you wanna do, you let people you wanna you work with that just, there's nothing better. It's just so fun.
Trash:Exactly. Like, I work. So, like, I just I jumped around companies a lot, and I stayed at one company for six years simply because we were just like it was like it was like I was working with my best friends. So it's like we would just be like sitting next to each other. This work fucking sucks.
Trash:But, like, you know, we're sitting next to each other. We're just like, this sucks, this sucks. But we're
Dax:like, stuck as shit about it. We just It's never said
Trash:funny because I left a long time ago, they're all still there. But yeah, it's it's it's amazing like the power of like relationships can do the like.
Dax:Yeah. Like it's it's nice when you find those people because like even if SST fails, I'm sure the three of us are gonna continue to work together like
Trash:100%.
Dax:Potentially forever and whatever the next thing is. So yeah, it does feel
Adam:good to good to have that. Yeah.
Dax:Small companies are where it's at.
Trash:I agree. I agree. I mean like Yeah. I can I can I know we're out of time? I but I could just, like, talk about that forever.
Trash:Like, the whole dynamic of all that stuff. It's good. I miss it. I miss it.
Dax:We can all start a company together one day. It'll be complete. It'll definitely fit. 100% will definitely fail. We're not gonna agree on a tech stack.
Dax:We're never gonna ship the first version, but we can try it.
Trash:We'll ship Prisma and Drizzle side by side.
Dax:Oh my god. People can pass in a query parameter to whatever one they want, the back end to use.
Trash:It's like it's like speed slow, speed fast, Whatever you want. Oh, god. Alright. I gotta I gotta get to work soon. Yeah.
Trash:Yeah. We should probably Yeah.
Dax:Yeah. We should end this.
Trash:This is fun.
Adam:Thanks for coming on trash.
Trash:Just like there's no like, I messaged Adam right before this. I like, is there like, questions or something?
Dax:No. We don't prepare. We don't have time for that.
Adam:Back on the hard work thing real quick before we get off here. Is it really hard work? Like, I've had those periods where I was super excited about, like, a small group of people working on a project. Like, even at stat muse where there's, like, three of us and we're shipping this thing and we're moving fast and we're putting in crazy time. But I don't know if you can call it hard work because nothing about it is hard.
Adam:Like, yes, it is a lot of time. But if you just like played a video game you love all day, you wouldn't call that hard work. So like, is it hard work? You know what I'm saying?
Dax:No. It's it's hard work that comes easily. Yeah. I think it's it's it's never been if you look at it externally, externally, people people might might see, see the hours I put in or like, just like the the amount of stuff I'm outputting or like the amount of energy I'm exerting and it's a lot but does it feel hard to choose to do? Like, no?
Dax:Like,
Dax:I Right.
Adam:Like nothing about it for yourself is hard that you wanna do it. You're enjoying every second of it.
Dax:It does feel bad. You like it but it feels bad. It's like doing a workout where it like kinda feels bad but you're having maybe you're into the workout or you're playing a sport, you're like you like playing the sport but it's like
Adam:Like it feels bad in the sense that if you haven't been like you've been neglecting everything else, you've just kind
Trash:of been like sprinting on something, you start to feel bad.
Dax:Yeah. Or you're like or you feel like shit at the end of some days or like there's like some a couple hours or they're just like a million things you need to do and you're kinda scattered. Like there's just like moments of stress like that. So there's definitely negatives with it but yeah.
Dax:Don't know.
Adam:But I feel like hard work would be
Trash:like washing windows all day. That's a Yeah. Hard
Dax:It's I definitely wouldn't equate it to, like, doing stuff that you hate because you have to. That's, like, truly truly hard work.
Adam:It's interesting. Like, I I guess, like, in some of those senses, I would be labeled as a hard worker. It's just interesting to think about, like, my psychology while I
Trash:was in those periods. Like, I
Adam:was enjoying it and I was it was a fun thing to do, but that that's hard work.
Trash:You're a hard worker.
Dax:I think we're talking among the people that can choose to not
Adam:do that.
Dax:If you can choose to work hard or not work hard
Adam:Oh, I see.
Dax:Like, you know, there's a lot of people in that category. I think that's I think we're just talking relative to that.
Adam:Yeah. That makes sense. This is our fortieth episode. Did you know that?
Dax:Wow. 40 episodes.
Adam:40 episodes. 40. You still haven't written a review. Would someone please write a review? One has a
Dax:review at all?
Adam:I don't think so. I mean, there's, like, all the different platforms. I guess maybe on some weird one, Pod Rocket or whatever, somebody's written something. Isn't that log log rockets podcast at trash dumps? Pod chaser or pod zipper.
Adam:I don't know. Somewhere, there's probably a review. But, like, if somebody could write one on Apple or just, like, even rate it, that'd People be
Dax:post about it on Twitter. Just, like, redirect that
Adam:into I know. We get kind messages. We we know people are downloading it. I don't know if they're listening to it. But if you could write something, please, somebody tell us on one of the platforms.
Adam:Apple preferably. Okay. Now I just got
Dax:really To be honest, I don't even know how to leave a review of a
Adam:podcast. Actually don't either. I've never
Dax:left So I a podcast review this and I'm like, have no idea what we're talking to do.
Adam:And I'm
Dax:sure they have no idea either.
Dax:Who the hell leaves podcast reviews?
Adam:Well, if somebody figures it out, please let us know so we can continue to shill that message. Write a tutorial. Oh, there you go. Just make a little video about how
Dax:to Write
Adam:a Twitter thread. Yeah. Write a Twitter thread. Yeah. Okay.
Adam:We should probably go.
Dax:Okay.
Adam:Alright. See you. Alright. Bye, Twitch, everybody.
Dax:Bye bye.
Adam:Wait.
