Religion, Mortality, and The Last Airbender
Yeah. I I don't feel guilt. I didn't I didn't grow up with a with a Western religion. There's no guilt in Eastern religions.
Adam:Oh, you wanna go hey. We just did the political that came out this morning, the political episode. You wanna do a religion episode this morning? Is that where we're going?
Dax:Yeah. I mean, I have I think I have some funny concepts.
Adam:Do you do you follow the news? Like, do you have news sources that you consume?
Dax:I think stuff makes it to me, but I don't think I follow the news. I don't think I There's not There's no like No, I I I don't I don't follow the news. If I think about all the stuff I check, I check Twitter and I check Feedly. You know, my sources on Feedly are just related to my work.
Adam:So like an RSS reader?
Dax:Yeah, exactly. I always think Feedly is kind of crazy for me because I have been using it every single day. I there probably hasn't been a day that I haven't opened it in the past, like, fifteen years maybe. Whenever Google Reader died. If you look up whenever Google Reader died
Adam:Oh, I remember Google Reader.
Dax:Yeah. It's maybe it's been fifteen years, maybe it's been a little bit less, but I think I've used it every single day. And I actually wonder, like, am I their most active user or, like, however, whatever metric they measure. Am I literally number one on that app? Because, I mean, I clear it every single day.
Dax:And it's been a habit I've it's, like, been the only habit I've kept for for so long. But, yeah, the source
Adam:go ahead.
Dax:No. You You.
Adam:What's that movie? Night at the Roxbury or something? You you? No. Me?
Adam:No. You?
Dax:Night at the Roxbury?
Adam:What is that? Not Night at the Roxbury. It's like the guy, he's, like, just on Coke and he's sitting up there at a press conference and he's like, you? You? You?
Adam:Me? Me? You? Like, who's gonna talk next? And he's just, like, freaking out.
Adam:I think it's the guy from Night at the Rocksbury, but it's not that. It's a movie. Somebody. Anybody. Help me, please.
Adam:Someone knows this reference. It is Night at the it is Night at the Roxbury. Apparently, is a movie.
Dax:It's Night at the Roxbury.
Adam:Why did I think Night at the Roxbury was, like, not a movie? What did I think it was even?
Dax:I don't even know what that is.
Adam:Okay. You don't know what Never mind.
Dax:Well, I I just get thrown off when you make a pop culture reference because it's like
Adam:I mean, a twenty year old movie probably. So all of my references are like they skipped a decade.
Dax:Okay. I was 11 twenty years ago.
Adam:You were 11 twenty years ago? Oh, you're 30. Wow. You are younger than me. I mean, just like five years.
Adam:I'm 36.
Dax:Yeah. I'm still in the old man section, I think. Oh, okay. Is forming.
Adam:Yeah. On Twitter. Really quick, you said something. You said you wonder if you're the biggest Feedly user. And I wonder often, my wife and I talk about, if we're the biggest customers at Mama Jeans, which is our local health
Dax:food store.
Adam:We spend, like, I don't know, all of our money there every month and have for years. And we get invited, like, VIP things that they have. Like, have these little, like, VIP dinners that we've never gone. But, like, I just I'm positive we're the biggest customer at Mama Gene's. Like, I'm I don't know if Mama Gene herself would ever listen to this podcast.
Adam:She wouldn't. But if she ever heard it, I'd love to get confirmation. I'd love someone to tell me that we are the number one customer. I'm just I'm positive.
Dax:It feels so good to have a spot that you're like so loyal to. I definitely want that.
Adam:It it feels like a second home. Like when we moved away, I missed our home. Obviously, our family and like all that. But I miss Mama Jeans. Like going into Mama Jeans, even if when we weren't living, we had sold our home that we loved to move to Florida when we came back.
Adam:It's like we were in this little rental and it sucked while we were building. We hated the place, but we went to Mama Jeans and it felt like, ah, we're home. Yeah. Anyway. Okay.
Dax:Liz has that with the with our coffee shop here that, the one in her neighborhood that she walks to. And ahead of time she was like, I want I want them to, like, know me. I want to, like, be Mhmm. Yeah. A notable customer.
Dax:And she hit a milestone where somebody, like, knew her order before she Yeah. Ordered
Adam:Yeah. Yeah.
Dax:She was like, I made it.
Adam:I made it. Our problem at Mama Jeans is, well, they have three locations that but we mostly go to the one. But they turns out, like, grocery stores, a lot of turnover. So, like, the crew from, I don't know, eight years ago that we when we first started going to Mama Jeans, a lot of them have left and it's new people. But there are a few people who've literally watched my kids grow up.
Adam:Like, a guy named Antoine who does a lot of the stalking. He he's just like he every time he sees Asa, it's, what's up little dude? He says that to him every time. It's like since he was tiny and now he's eight. And it's just crazy.
Adam:Anyway, that's the Ozarks. There you go.
Dax:Yeah. I mean, think about that even with my street. I'm like, if I really commit I'm definitely committed to my neighborhood, but I was like, if I take it further and I commit to my street, my neighborhood's really small kids, it's gonna be really weird to see them like go off to college one day. Yeah. Really bizarre.
Adam:Yeah. I mean, I've been in this neighborhood now for like, we the first home was eight years ago. We were gone for a couple years. Anyway, yeah, I've seen we've seen some kids, you know, it just doesn't seem right. It's so weird when kids that you knew when they were little are now, like, driving and then graduating and yeah.
Adam:It's bizarre.
Dax:Yeah. It's weird.
Adam:Okay. Okay. Religion. Let's do it. Fine.
Adam:Fine. Wait.
Dax:Wait. But what but if you asked me about news, I never followed up.
Adam:Oh. Oh, yeah. No. I just oh. This I like I don't know.
Adam:Like, the recently, people were talking about submarine on Twitter. I've only seen, like, two people mention it, but they were very distraught. And it just reminded me that, like, I don't know about these things unless someone asked me to go look it up. Like, I don't have any inputs. Like, Twitter now for me is just our friends, the people that I, you know, associate pretty closely with.
Adam:I get on Twitch here. If somebody doesn't say it on Twitter or in Twitch chat, I don't know what happens. And I don't know. Is that bad? Am I like a bad citizen, Not connected or something?
Dax:I was surprised when because I saw you reply being like, what submarine? And I was like, I'm kinda surprised. I was surprised that you didn't know about it. And it actually made me think like, wow, I was like way more insulated than I than I thought. Because I also only heard about it because people were talking about it on on Twitter.
Adam:Did you see do you see a lot of people talking about it? Because I've I even saw you, I think, say something about or maybe Warren said something about, like, can't do the memes or you can't handle people joking about it. I haven't seen any memes or jokes about it. I've literally seen Annie say that she was kind of distraught over it, that's it. I've not seen anything else.
Dax:Yeah. That's weird. I'm trying to remember. I feel like I've been seeing it everywhere, but then I actually don't know where everywhere is. I need to pay more attention to this because I actually I must have seen it somewhere else, I'm just realizing I don't know where all this stuff is making it into my into my brain.
Dax:Oh, it might be it actually might be Feedly because Feedly's connected to Hacker News, and Hacker News is like a lot of tech stuff but just, like, other interesting stuff that's happening that's, like, maybe relevant to everyone.
Adam:Yeah. I don't read Hacker News. That's always like I've always felt like an impostor when I I know, like, oh, there's a whole site for just us and, like, hackers go there and read stuff. And I just have never enjoyed it. I don't know.
Adam:I've never relied
Dax:It's on it's funny because I have such mixed feelings on it because the most annoying people on the planet are there.
Adam:I mean, you're there. So that's like when you when you see someone at a place you're kind of embarrassed to be, it's like, well, wait, why are you here? But what but I I'm here, but why are you? You should be embarrassed.
Dax:Hey, I saw I saw Aaron Francis there once.
Adam:Oh,
Dax:really? I see everyone there.
Adam:Okay.
Dax:So yeah.
Adam:Yeah. He because he actually writes really good stuff and it ends up there. So he has to be there. He does not seem like the kind of person that would be in the comments.
Dax:No. I saw him in a comment but it was a really typical Aaron Fachs, was gonna
Adam:be a
Dax:nice positive pro. Yeah.
Adam:It was a great shoot.
Dax:Yeah, exactly. I'm not remembering. This is when I first started following him on Twitter and we didn't know each other that well. And it was a thread about people hating Twitter and he was in there being like, don't know, I have a good time on there. And I was like, oh yeah, I know you.
Dax:I also have a good time on there. But Okay. So obviously, most annoying people And I want to be more specific about this. The problem with the hacker news audience is that they're not dumb, They're they're smart. They're They can think about things and they can, like, form pretty convincing arguments and and follow logic.
Adam:This is why you're on it and I'm not.
Dax:It's so you're missing yourself?
Adam:I am. I mean, it's perfect. Like, I can't form solid arguments and you're somebody who can be like, that's the whatever principle. So you belong there and I don't. Go ahead.
Adam:No. No.
Dax:No. You gotta let me finish my thought because the entire problem is a majority of the audience takes that skill and directs it in like the dumbest way. Like they will use their ability to form cohesive thoughts to conclude something that makes zero sense at all. But with like paragraphs of stuff that we read, it's like this does make sense. And you step back and you're like, wait, this actually makes no sense at all.
Dax:But then technically it makes sense. Know, it's this really weird combination of like, if they were just dumb, that would be a lot simpler. If they were just genuinely smart, they probably would have said something simple. But they're like in this weird zone where they can like make all these complex things and then you realize what they're actually talking about and you're like, that that just makes no sense. So that's why I hate it.
Adam:Yeah. That's one thing I noticed on Hacker News. Anytime I end up there, it's like how long the comments are. People really they put a lot of time into their Hacker News comments. Yeah.
Adam:What what's the motivation there? Have you done that? Like, I feel like if you're there, you've probably commented. Like, do you write a big thing because you wanna convince somebody of something or you you wanna look like you fit in or what is it?
Dax:No. I don't I I never written anything big. It's just brief things here and there where I where I can chime in.
Adam:I'm gonna dig through your profile. Can you actually see people's posts? I don't know.
Dax:I'm gonna find You can. You can.
Adam:It's all out there then. Oh, yeah. You're a YC. You're part of a YC company. You're a YC founder.
Dax:What what what does that have to do with anything?
Adam:Well, it's just like it's kinda like your little place where you're
Dax:cool. Mean, I've been going to Hacker News for a very long time. Yeah. You were prior to that.
Adam:Ten years probably, I would
Dax:guess. I started doing everything ten years ago. I told you this. All my habits were fun ten
Adam:years ago. That's so true.
Dax:The next year, everything will be eleven years. That's just how it goes.
Adam:Ever since I've been, like, a developer for twelve years, I've rounded up to fifteen. I've been a software developer for, fifteen years. Roughly.
Dax:Yeah. It's hard to say. Yes. Very annoying people. And that's like that kind of it's annoying to read that stuff.
Dax:That said, some of the most important technologies I've ever used, I've discovered from there. Like, found Elixir. Really? Because it just kept popping up on Hacker News and it hit a threshold where, like, I need to check this out because it's popped up enough times. And that was, like, really formative for me and a really important moment.
Dax:So I continue to go there because, you know, if if anything is out there that shows up that is gonna be interesting to me, it's gonna end up there. The second thing is, yes, there's a lot of annoying people, but there's also some really genuinely smart people on, like, the most on the randomest topics that I don't know about. And I do get a lot of value from I actually read the comments. It's weird because I was just complaining about it. Think I read the comments more than actual articles because, yes, there's always annoying people but there's also the person that is like just an expert in something that like lays it out really well.
Adam:So So it's you feel like it's good a good use of time. I should look into it.
Dax:If I'm smart enough look into it, but for me Yeah.
Adam:You don't know if I should look into it. I I know what that means. I don't know if you should look into it. I don't know if you quite make the cut, but Yeah.
Dax:Just just let me summarize it for you. You don't have to go look into it.
Adam:Okay. Yeah. You you do. I mean, you're I said something the other day about how you just you have this ability to, like, summarize and distill and all that. And you said it's just because you've read like, ten years ago, read a bunch of books that now you can just ride that forever.
Dax:It feels that way. Maybe there's just not that many ideas in the world.
Adam:I feel like there could be infinite ideas in the world.
Dax:Yeah. But there's like there's like there's like eight core things that are true and then everything is just an extrapolation of those things combined in different ways.
Adam:And why is that? Like like when it comes to human stuff, like just social, societal, philosophical like when it comes to like I I think of like physics. It's like there's laws or whatever or is there? I don't know. Did they figure out there aren't?
Adam:It's actually all I don't know. But like physics, can wrap my head around that. With people stuff, why are there like fundamental laws that kind of govern the way things will play out?
Dax:I think there's just a difference between something being complicated and something being complex where, physics stuff is really complicated, but it's not complex in the sense of like, a billion human beings interacting with each other, all the different combinations of things that can happen. Know, there's always some stat where like, there's more combinations of this than like atoms in the universe. Like, is there like the combination factor? That's what I think about when I about complexity. So I think when you have situations like that, there's like so few global truths and and laws that work.
Dax:Again, this is also just from one of the books that I read.
Adam:I was gonna say, you just kinda did the thing where you just add like an answer to a very weird complicated question.
Dax:But this is also wasn't this in that scale book that you read?
Adam:Oh, maybe. I love how you haven't even read it. I've read it and you know the principle and I don't. I shouldn't read the book. I should just talk to Liz is what you're saying.
Adam:I was gonna say,
Dax:my brain isn't distracted by the hundreds of pages in the book. I just stored like the one The one little tidbit you needed. Information. Yeah. That she said
Adam:Can I give you another tidbit from a book since you probably haven't read it? Astrophysics for People in a Hurry?
Dax:I've heard of that, but I have not read
Adam:it. It's the guy. What's his name? I can't think of his name. Neil Neil Tyson Degrass.
Dax:Neil Degrass Tyson.
Adam:Degrass? Neil Degrass. I was that close? Okay.
Dax:I mean, you you were right.
Adam:Just had a little I mixed more up the names. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Guy.
Adam:He there's a there's a part in the book maybe this was from scale, actually.
Dax:It's all the same.
Adam:I think it was actually from scale. No. No.
Dax:It's probably actually like, 10 books that matter.
Adam:Yeah. No. It really is from the the the Neil whatever one. So in a cup of water this just blows my mind. Have you heard this?
Adam:In a cup of water oh, I haven't told you yet. There are more molecules in a cup of water than there are other cups of water on Earth. There are so many more molecules. There are you could put 15,000 molecules from one cup of water into every other cup of water on Earth. That blows my mind that, like, it gets that small.
Adam:Like, I think of things on the big end, astrophysics, all that stuff. But on the tiny end, it's way bigger than I realized. Way more there's way more depth there.
Dax:Yeah. It's like mind boggling, like some of these realities that we just go about day to day and there's it's it's like it feels like craziest sci fi concept. Like, mean, the other thing other classic thing with that is, I don't know exactly, but you know how atoms and molecules are mostly space? And it's like there's it's something like if you just took the mass Yeah.
Adam:Oh, like between the electrons and
Dax:the Yeah.
Adam:Yeah. You just took
Dax:the mass and put it all together, it's like some shockingly small, like, amount. Yeah. Like you like I I think you like touch your desk when it feels solid and hard, but it's like technically mostly space.
Adam:Man, this is a great time to get into the religion conversation. I feel like we're talking about deep stuff. Yeah. What what is our religion con we've kind of had this conversation together privately. What's it gonna look like here?
Dax:The thing that comes up for me is, because Liz grew up Catholic and I grew up basically without any real strong religion. Yeah. Technically, my family is is Hindu, but it just wasn't that
Adam:It's a weak religion is what you're saying? Hindu Yeah. We're putting that on tape. We're gonna put that on
Dax:Well, it actually is relevant. Like, it's so extremely fragmented and like from the beginning, the original ideas were like, kind of like think, think and make up stuff on your own. So like over the thousands of years, it's like, it's just so fragmented. There's not like a strong identity or like strong rules around
Adam:it. Yeah.
Dax:Yeah. Everyone has their own flavor. So it's it's pretty different. And then the other thing me and Liz always talk about is I'm gonna my conclusion on this is just the way we were raised because of religion stuff. It might be that I'm a bad person, but let me explain.
Dax:Let me explain.
Adam:Everyone that listens to this just all we all jump to the same conclusion that you are just a bad person, but go ahead.
Dax:She's constantly thinking about morality and right and wrong and what is right and what is wrong and, like, feeling guilt and, like, there's this heavy, like, guilt thing with everything she thinks about or does. Yeah. And everyone talks about it. Everyone talks about the Catholic guilt concept and I just do not have that. Like, I'm mostly just thinking about like, does this make sense?
Dax:Does this make me feel good or like, you know, don't know. Yeah. I'm never thinking about it like, is this moral or am I a good or bad person if I do this? Yeah. For her, that's like a very natural way for her to think because of I don't know.
Dax:We've we've we've concluded it's because how we were raised differently whereas Yeah. The guilt concept is not as much of a thing in the religion that I grew up in.
Adam:Yeah. So I would say the religion that I grew up in, which is Christianity, there's there's some guilt. Well, I mean, I wouldn't say there's guilt. I would say, like, it's you can't summarize a group of people's beliefs based on your experiences. Like, I know there are people who hold those beliefs all over the world that don't display them in the way that the people around me did growing up.
Adam:Yeah. I guess I should give some context. This is gonna be hard actually. This is we're getting into some, like, difficult things to talk about because of, like just when you go from, like, being raised in one setting or one context and then you change that in adulthood, it's very hard. Like, it's extremely hard to, like, leave prior belief systems behind.
Adam:Mhmm. At least from my experience, it's been tough in my wife's. She didn't grow up in it like I did though. Like, I grew up my whole life in Christianity. And I think in adulthood, started asking questions that it just didn't it didn't resonate with me mostly because I think the place I live in the world.
Adam:Like, I think if I had grown up, you know, on the West Coast Of America even, it looks a lot different there than it does here in what they call the Bible Belt. There's just a lot of a lot of things that bother me about the people that I was closest with and the way they display their beliefs. And, yeah, I would say, like, today, I just it feels really good to not try to have answers to every single thing, which is what I felt like everyone around me growing up
Dax:Mhmm.
Adam:Had to have it's like they had to build up this framework that protected their mind or they would just fall apart. Not dissimilar to how I fell apart on our last episode. Just like needing to have answers to every single question. And I think I feel really good now in adulthood after, like, a five, six year journey of this
Dax:Yeah.
Adam:Just not knowing much of anything and and enjoying almost the mystery of all of this. Like, I can look at everything around me now and look at the vastness of space and the tininess of whatever atoms or molecules. And, like, it just blows me away, and it does make me feel some sense of something in my tiny little robot heart. But it's just, like, not needing to have answers. I I guess I do like, I I'll say that.
Adam:Like, as somebody who's very into science and very into, like, I don't know, modern thinking is what I'll call it, I do kinda feel like I don't know. There there's just some things there's no answers to, and I'm okay with that. Like, why? Why did all of this happen? Okay.
Adam:I'm
Dax:gonna stop
Adam:talking. I've said too many words. Go ahead.
Dax:No. No. That that's good. I think it's funny because you're the way the place you jumped to was I think yeah. Because a big part of it is, like, giving you answers to things.
Dax:In a lot of ways, sometimes I'm like jealous of that because, like you said, it protects you in a lot of ways. Yeah. Sometimes I'm like that I mean, I don't think I would actually choose it, but I can see like what's nice about that, you know? Because it takes a while to be okay with not having answers to certain things. Yeah.
Dax:It's funny though, because I think and again, is just what what I've learned through talking to Lids and kind of seeing how our family operates. Their version of religion doesn't seem as that part of it doesn't seem as relevant, really. Like the here's how everything works and here's how where we came from, etcetera.
Adam:Yeah. I feel like
Dax:and this might be just the Cuban thing or maybe it's like the cat the difference between Catholic and Christianity, but I don't think it's that. I feel like it's for them, it's more like, it's really just about the the good and bad thing. Like, here's the things we have to do to be good and like they're always striving to do those things. Some of some of some of those things are like genuinely good. Other things are kind of arbitrary like you should go to to church every Sunday or whatever just kind of rules that that that every religion has.
Dax:Yeah. And I feel like they actually don't think about the larger existential stuff that answers for you. Yeah. It's it's it's like a funny thing. I think the other thing that's weird about or interesting about their setup is, I mean, with with every, like you said, every like local flavor of religion is a little bit different and for them, it comes from like, Catholicism in The Caribbean.
Dax:So a lot of it is, like, weirdly mixed in with, like, voodoo stuff. There's actually a whole, like, branch of it that's, I think it's called Santeria, which is, like, it's Catholicism but, like, island magic combined together.
Adam:Yeah. You had, like, a nice little, like, roll of the r there or whatever that letter was. That was nice. You sounded like a Yeah.
Dax:Yeah. I've been here for almost a year. I gotta I gotta I gotta get that right. And, like, there's some people that are hardcore into that, but it's, a really weird mix It's like the traditional stuff you'd imagine, but it's also stuff you never associate with it. Like like these crazy, like tribal rituals and things.
Dax:Yeah. But Liz's dad, they're not they're not like that hardcore into that, but they do do some things like that. Like these little, like, like, it's like magic. So when Liz applies for a job or like tries to is trying to like get funding or whatever. And if she ever tells her dad about it, her dad will ask, who's the name?
Dax:What's the name of the person that like makes the decision? And he writes their name down on a piece of paper and freezes it in an ice cube.
Adam:Oh, wow.
Dax:And that's like tech yeah. So that's like technically, like, part of the religion, but Yeah. I'm sure you technically are in the in the same neighborhood of religion. You've probably never heard of anything like that.
Adam:No. No. Yeah. No. Haven't Yeah.
Adam:Heard of one. There's some snake handling I've heard of. Go ahead. Sorry.
Dax:Wait. Snake handling.
Adam:Oh, have you never heard of that one? No. There are I think this I think it's Christianity. There are sects of Christianity that they handle snakes. I don't know.
Adam:I think it might have been in the Bible, but they handle snakes like the snake won't bite them because they're protected.
Dax:Oh, interesting.
Adam:I think. Like on stage at church, I think. I could be wrong. I could be mixing up it could be another religion, and I'm sorry if it was.
Dax:I mean, that sounds like an Indian thing to me. When I think when I think of handling snakes, like, the flute and the snake coming out of the basket.
Adam:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. The cobra kinda lifts up the lid and like, yeah.
Adam:Are we gonna are we just, like, gonna offend everybody in the world in this podcast? Like, did we just write off any chance of anybody liking either of us?
Dax:I'm so far, we've only talked about ourselves.
Adam:That's true. So Yeah. We're not poking at anybody else. It's our experiences within our religious backgrounds or nonreligious or easy what would you call yours? Weak, weak religious backgrounds.
Dax:Yeah. It's like yeah. But going back to original point, yeah, like it's it's weird to me that I mean, I just love the way I normally do it. Don't think about it. But until like me and Liz start talking about this, like, she like thinks like this guilt thing is such like a such a thing.
Dax:And I guess for you, the Quovan is like, the way the universe is is kind of like constantly a thing.
Adam:Yeah. Like, okay. I'm gonna say some things and Chris I'm gonna let Chris decide whether these things stay in the podcast. You're wincing. Are you wincing back
Dax:to not wincing. I'm smiling.
Adam:Oh, you're smiling. You revel in these moments. I guess, like, for me to get more specific about the kind of things that really, like, turned me off from Christianity, just growing up in, like, this setting where honestly, I look at it now. No hyperbole. I feel like it's brainwashing.
Adam:Like, the kind of things that children are subjected to. Just the amount of fear and the amount of, like, you're gonna die and burn in hell if you don't accept this and here's what it means, and then you're gonna be worried for the rest of your life if you did something wrong. And I know like people are gonna say like, people with proper theology are gonna say, that's not how it's supposed to be, and I'm sorry you're subject to that. Maybe it is maybe it's just a regional thing. But, yeah, there's just a lot of things about modern day Christianity and and just their stances on a lot of things just bother me a lot.
Adam:And I guess I got to a point where I asked enough questions to break out of the framework that had been instilled in my brain and and, like, other influences and just other like, you you come like, you get on the Internet, you're connected with people all over the world, you get this outside perspective. Growing up in the Ozarks, like, before the Internet, you think I have no inputs now. Like, I had no inputs. Like
Dax:The it's funny because that technically exists here as well. But it's almost, like, funny because it's not it's, like, so not effective. I think it's because, like, reality is Miami is, like, it's like a city and it's like a very like, in a lot of ways it's like parts of it are like the opposite of like religion. Everyone here is Catholic. So it's so ineffective because like like Liz will tell me stories of doing all the traditional stuff where like, you went to a Catholic school, they made them promise x y z things.
Dax:They like straight up told them, they're like, you're gonna go you're gonna go to college and like, people are gonna say all these things and and and like, and challenge your faith and all of that. And it's just so ineffective because that's literally what happens. Like, everyone just leaves and like, you're just you're like, you're so it's not effective here at all. So just kind of funny to like, everyone went through this process and almost everyone arrives at like, you know, maybe not any extreme place, like maybe find like the right balance for them. Yeah.
Dax:So for us, it's like not like a upsetting thing. It's just like a comical thing. But then it sounds like for you, it's like it actually is very effective in terms of like limiting how people think or what they expose themselves to.
Adam:I think so. Yeah. I mean, I think in this area, I think yeah. I'll I'll kind of lay off some of the specific examples. But if we're talking about religion, I have to bring up the closest thing to Christianity that I would say did resonate with me or kind of does would be a guy named I'm blanking.
Adam:He wrote like a ton of books, The Hero with a Thousand Faces. He died. Michael
Dax:The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Joseph Campbell.
Adam:Joseph Campbell. Thank you. So Joseph Campbell has pointed out and written all these books about, like, the commonalities between all the world's religions and, like, the stories that are universal. And they almost feel like there is some kind of, like, deeper connection to all of these stories that I don't know. That I've I've seen some of his stuff, some of his talks.
Adam:And, like, if that were what Christianity were raised if I were raised in that, maybe I would have, like, continued to believe it and not been challenged or whatever. Yeah. So I don't know. People who are like on the fence, maybe looking to Joseph Campbell. He seems cool.
Dax:Yeah. I don't like this is some people are really hardcore and they're like super anti religion or like they think it should all go away. I I think for me there's like a fundamental value that it provides.
Adam:Yes.
Dax:It does like, there's like teaching like how how to be and just like, in like genuinely good ways to like stories and things like that. Yeah. It is genuinely a fundamental requirement that we need as a society over the thousands of years. Like there's a lot a lot of corrupted forms of it and like problems from like the specific flavor of it. Yeah.
Dax:So I like don't wanna remove that as a concept because I think people get completely lost. I think when people need to like figure out every little thing for themselves, they just start to go down really weird paths when like a lot of traditional wisdom just has the right answers for. Yep. And again, people need to find their own balance. I think people swing towards like, well, none it's funny because they actually don't end up thinking they think they're doing this because they're thinking for themselves.
Dax:But doing the opposite of what everything the religion said is not thinking for yourself. You're just doing the Yeah. Opposite of Yeah. You gotta figure out like what if it what parts of it makes sense? What parts of it maybe don't make sense for you, which is hard, but you know, I think that's where we have to land.
Dax:So for me, I know like when I'm gonna have kids and I'm gonna raise them, something needs to fill that place. Like, I I don't know exactly what it's gonna be. Like, I I know there's Yeah. Things in culture that do that extremely well. I think there's some stuff from like traditional religions that also do that extremely well.
Dax:So yeah, we're we're gonna have to figure out what that is. But yeah, I don't wanna throw away everything,
Adam:you know. Yeah. You need to hurry up and have kids because this is a thing Casey and I talk about all the time that we do feel like because we're both kind of at this we transitioned through this together, actually independently. Neither one of us really wanted to break it together that we weren't really believing any of this anymore. But then came to the same conclusions.
Adam:This is actually really cool. We we still talk about with our kids, like, we don't wanna just we don't want them to be wandering and completely lost and lacking a lot of the ritual and tradition that, like, there's a lot of richness to that that people get. And some people just get it, I think what you're saying is, like, with their culture. In America, don't think we have that. Like, I don't think we have a default culture and community that sort of, like, thrives outside of a religion.
Adam:So that's that's definitely something we feel like we're lacking because we're both kind of like wandering on our journey of trying to figure out what spirituality is and we we don't want them to be completely, you know, just lost or susceptible to anything that blows their way. I don't know. Yeah. I I definitely see, like, the impact of religion on society and how it benefits, you know, large people groups. Just when it feels like it's not for you, then how do you kinda, like, get the good parts of it for your family?
Adam:Yeah. And I'd like I'd like
Dax:you to figure that out because I know you're gonna figure it out before I
Adam:do, I've had kids for eight years. So Well, the one
Dax:thing the one thing we everyone's gonna make fun of me for this, but whatever. I I think it's brilliant. But you know how I named Zuko after that show, The Last Airbender? Think we've talked about this before. Yeah.
Dax:The structure of that show is actually very similar to, I would say a lot of religious texts where it's like a primary character that's traveling and coming across various scenarios. And like, through them dealing with the scenarios, you learn something about morality or whatever. Yeah. That's the exact structure of that show. And they do such a fantastic job of like demonstrating all the nuance and gray area of like things that maybe seem obvious.
Dax:And like, it teaches such good lessons where I can imagine like, we could watch an episode and then like, talk about it like three minutes after, like, what what did we learn? Like, like a few things come in my head like, it's In in the world, there's like some kind of like war going on And there's a scenario where, a guy is is stuck. He's like about to get crushed, they're stuck in a cave. And someone uses, some they they come across him and then somebody uses like a power they have to like, to free him. But they're not supposed to use that power because that the oppressing force is saying that you can't use it.
Dax:So they rescue this guy and the guy's grateful. But the guy they saved turned turns turns him in Oh. To the to the bad guy. So even though he was saved. So it's like this really interesting thing on like, is that guy bad?
Dax:Like, whose fault is it? Like, he, like, stabbed that guy in the back even though he was saved. But in situations like this, like, this is kind of how people act. They, like, are like really stressed by this larger force and you can't really 100% blame them. Like, yeah, he did do the wrong thing by turning but this guy also this is kind of what happened in situations like that.
Dax:Right? So it like does it like handles all these like really nuanced things really, really well. And I think that's like ideally what you want from from something like this.
Adam:Yeah. No, that sounds awesome. So we'll just turn on what what's it called? Airbender?
Dax:The Last Airbender.
Adam:The Last Airbender. It's like a lots of lots of seasons. There a lot of these episodes?
Dax:Think it's four seasons. Yeah. I mean, think, I don't know if I don't know if Archer's old enough to watch it but Asa definitely is old enough.
Adam:Yeah. He
Dax:might be into it. I think it's it's it's fantastic even as an adult just to like learn about learn about life and and all those things. And I get I don't understand how the creators did this because, I realized they were actually around my age when they created the show. I was like, wow, they could like do all this? They had all this wisdom and they could like communicate it in this like interesting way at my age.
Dax:Like that's really insane. But again, it borrows ideas from like religions from all over the world or ideas from all over the world. It's pretty good.
Adam:Yeah. So we're I guess we've kind of like we've talked about a lot of religion. Where do you land on like spirituality as like a human, concept? Just like a thing that we need or don't need? Where do you have thoughts on that?
Dax:Yeah. I think it's just like it's personal. Like Liz, obviously grew up Catholic but moved away from more of like the practical side of it, but she still is like very spiritual and she still prays every day and like does a lot of things. Yeah. That's a big part of her life and it's important for her.
Dax:I don't I just don't have that. I never really had that as a habit.
Adam:Same. I've never felt I've never felt like a spiritual person and I don't know, like Yeah. Then when you have religion without any kind of like feeling like you're spiritual at all, it's just like, what am I doing this for? Really random.
Dax:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It always felt a little awkward for me.
Adam:But then I don't know if I should be developing some kind of spirituality. Like, if I'm lacking something that's just like would be very beneficial in life both for me and for my family. Like, I don't know if I'm just accepting that I'm like this very materialistic whatever person. Is materialistic the opposite of spirit? I don't know.
Adam:Like, everything that I can see and touch, that's the only thing that matters.
Dax:Yeah. Material world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dax:I I I'm kind of the same way but yeah, I'm also a little bit I can see myself developing more of that at some point because Yeah. I maybe lost interest in it at some like I think at some age, like a young age, kind of lost interest in it and I just never developed it again. But I can see myself getting into it. If I imagine it, it's not something I'm like, I hate that. It's like, oh, I can see how at some point I could get into that.
Dax:But it's just not something that even clicks or registers
Adam:for me right now. Same. I don't even know how it would like work on it. Like, it doesn't feel like a skill I can like try to flex. I think I was just trying to change the subject.
Adam:It's really hard to talk about religion and spirituality. I only recently had the conversation with my parents, like, in the last eight months, six months, something Yeah. Like Yeah. It's been very recent. Yeah.
Adam:No. It's just it's hard. I don't know. Maybe it's this area. It's a very monoculture where I live.
Adam:Yeah. It's like you kind feel like you're gonna get kicked out of the camp if you don't align with a set of things.
Dax:Yeah. It's a I mean, even here, like I said, if we're we're not gonna send our kids to like school school. I don't think I think we're gonna homeschool them. But if we want to and if we need to because we can't figure out the homeschool thing, the only option are Catholic schools pretty much because public schools are not good. So we would have to send our kids to Catholic school.
Dax:And this is the funniest concept to me. Like, I'm imagining my kid, like, following things that are, like, just so random from my point of view because it's like, what the hell? Like, I don't know about any of this stuff. And there's technically, like, the parents get roped in. They're like, you have to go to church and you get either your kids get in trouble or like you like the school has like a weird power over you somehow.
Dax:Yeah. I don't really understand this. And I'm like, I'm gonna have to start doing all this stuff that just like, for me, like just so random. It was like a weird situation I find myself in and all of us as friends who all complained about like how stupid some of the stuff at the private schools they went to are are sending their kids to the exact same school. Because it's not a big deal like it's it does they're still decent schools and like it's not like the worst thing in the world but Yeah.
Dax:It just is the only option. I'm like, if I find myself doing that one day, it's just gonna be like, I would have just never guessed that.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. It's the same way. Mean, we have most of the private schools here are Christian private schools and Catholic. I don't know.
Adam:It's that same thing. I'm I just offended so many people
Dax:at once. I think from my experience, it's super different. I feel like I think the difference is that I think in Catholicism is the one where you can confess. Right?
Adam:Yeah. Like the priest and you go in and you can Yeah. Yeah.
Dax:Can you do that in Christianity?
Adam:I did I mean, it doesn't no. It's not a concept that I'm aware of.
Dax:I think that that has like a huge difference because I feel like Catholic people are like insane. I feel like they're like way more like crazy. Like crazy really. Like like
Adam:More like a Extreme. Because they can just Trying to frame
Dax:a positive They can confess and reset. It feels like It almost feels like they just don't have religion. And you give them this idea of like, you can confess and still be good. That just makes them do more crazy stuff, you know. So I think in practice, it's pretty different.
Adam:Yeah. I mean, it's it like, when you zoom out though, if you look at it from, a completely detached view, it's like, well, they're pretty similar. Like, if you consider all the world's religions, like
Dax:Yeah. It's true.
Adam:It's funny. Well, even within Christianity, just the number of, like, different beliefs and different groups of people that hold different beliefs and denominations. And Mhmm. There's like there's crazy variety even within one religion when you zoom in close enough. It's kinda like the cup of water.
Adam:Look how I just brought that back.
Dax:Oh my.
Adam:Look how I just look how I just brought back the cup of water and all the little tiny molecules. Do you ever really though, do you ever think about like the big questions? Like, why? Do you ever think about that?
Dax:Okay. So there's one that me and Liz always talk about and we don't have an answer for it obviously, but we have a different concept that's funny. I wanna see if you relate. So there's this concept of like, why something instead of nothing. Right?
Dax:Yeah. And if you sit and really think about it, I experience this really weird feeling when I try to think about it and Liz experiences the exact same feeling. The feeling is my brain like it feels like my brain shuts off or like it's just impossible for me to actually think about it. And it feels like someone put like a block, someone like censored my brain from being able to access this thought process. It feels like every time I try to think about like why is there anything inside there's literally nothing, like, I get this weird feeling.
Dax:It literally feels like we're in a simulation and like we're not allowed to think about that one topic.
Adam:Like you're hitting the the edge, Like you're bumping up against the boundary. Yeah. Oh, interesting.
Dax:Yeah. Because I can't I just can't ponder that at all. It just like just my brain just just stops.
Adam:Yeah. I don't I've never thought about like that or I've never had that sensation. But I've definitely tried to think about some of these things and then you just can't. It's like your brain can't really comprehend much of it at all. I mean, it's just like anytime I spend time thinking about that question, just the why question, it's it's kind of like there's why ask the question?
Adam:There's just no I'm not gonna get anywhere with it. I'm not gonna, like, connect deeper with myself on some level that I don't know. It's just it's like there's no answering it. And that's kind of I don't know. It's kind of fun to me, the mystery of all of it.
Adam:All of this.
Dax:Have you seen that Richard Feynman thing?
Adam:Beauty?
Dax:Yeah. Yes. Because I mean, he talks a lot about that.
Adam:100%. If you wanna know how I view the world, my spirituality, my whatever, my views, that video so sums up so perfectly how I feel. And I know, like, putting myself on Richard Feynman's level, like, yeah, sure. Like, he he relates with me a lot. No.
Adam:I just, like, with seeing that video, you sent it to me.
Dax:Oh, okay.
Adam:It just like so perfectly put words to things and thoughts about doubt, about all these things that yeah. It really that that's about as close to spirituality as I think I've ever felt like I had an experience.
Dax:I'm getting goosebumps just like remembering the video because it's so
Adam:It's such a good video. So now we gotta put the link in the in the show notes or something. Yeah. I'll tell I'll tell Chris.
Dax:It's it's if you just search Richard Feidman beauty on YouTube, you'll find it because it's like it's a video and he's narrating over it and it's like he speaks about this just like so beautifully and well. I I love him as a human, like I think in so many different ways, I feel like he like I just feel like he lived life, like, to the fullest in so many ways. Yeah. Like, obviously was all the science stuff, obviously. But then, like, I don't if you've seen his, like, his letter to his wife after she died.
Adam:No. Oh, I'm gonna
Dax:check. Like insanely beautiful, like, I like getting, like so he like lived the relationship and romance part of his life really well as well. And then he was like, he like played the bongos, he had all these other thoughts and all those other things. I'm just like, he'll just he just wanted it all. He like had every Yeah.
Dax:He like loved life and wanted every part of it. So definitely someone I admire a lot.
Adam:Yep. I've got the letter pulled up. I know I'm gonna I'm gonna lose it. I'm not gonna read it here on this. I'll just completely break it.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So now I want to say like, if you're offended I feel like some people are gonna be offended. I know at least my parents are offended listening
Dax:to this.
Adam:So I just have to say, like, if you're offended, just, like, maybe talk to me, first of all. Don't just, like, stew and be offended. But, like, my goal is not to offend you. I don't wanna offend anybody. It's just not my goal.
Adam:Like, I don't I'm not trying to attack anybody or make you feel bad for how you believe or what you I guess, like, saying that you brainwashed me, like, maybe that feels like an attack. But we've had that conversation. Now I'm just talking to my parents. I'm gonna stop.
Dax:Is the rough conversation here, man.
Adam:I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna stop. It's just a complicated subject, you know. It's just a complicated like, there's a lot of time and emotion and other things invested into it that people it's just a hard conversation to have. But don't don't be offended and not say something.
Adam:Come to me. We can talk about it.
Dax:Yeah. It is complex topic.
Adam:What do you say? Yeah. What do you say to that, Baxter? You're just like you have nothing to say to that.
Dax:No. I don't have anything to say to I I this it seems very personal for you and and your between you and your parents, so I don't
Adam:I really am singling out my parents. It's not just my parents. It's like it's just this whole it's just my whole life. I mean, it's everybody I know. It's it's like you just kinda have to, like okay.
Adam:So that's not true. There's plenty of people in this area. No. You know what? I wanna stop.
Adam:I'm gonna I'm gonna stop. I've talked enough about my my history and my background. I don't need to never mind.
Dax:Listen, it's okay. Everyone so loves you.
Adam:Okay. That's good. That's it. I feel better. I feel better now.
Adam:I'm gonna watch the Richard Feynman video again and then cry. Yeah. And then cry and read his letter to his wife. Oh, jeez. That kind of stuff.
Adam:Did you see the poem that was making the rounds on Twitter?
Dax:Yeah. That was a good dog.
Adam:It's like dadless grasses. Oh my word.
Dax:I did. I refuse to read it. I read like two lines and I was like, I'm not
Adam:gonna read this. It's too much. It's too much. I will say too, like, the topic of religion and spirituality, having kids definitely amplifies this whole conversation a whole lot. It definitely raises the stakes of all of it because you do start like, I don't know.
Adam:You just think about the the finiteness of our lives, the mortal the mortality. Is that
Dax:the word?
Adam:Yeah. I don't know. You just think about, like, it's hard to imagine time without your kids once you have kids. Not that if you don't have kids, you can't experience these. I'm just saying, like, it definitely amps up the the stakes, I guess.
Dax:Yeah. I refuse to think about any of those things. I'm just gonna continue to think about how I'm gonna be a disembodied head floating.
Adam:Oh, yeah. You're gonna float around space forever. So you're not gonna be Yeah. Yeah. And my kids will be with me.
Adam:Okay. Well, we've already gone so long. I'm just gonna go a little bit longer because is that okay? Are you do you need to go?
Dax:No. I'm okay.
Adam:So I will say, like, I definitely went through a stretch when I was first I'm gonna say leaving the faith. That just sounds like a priest or something. It's just like the phrase that came to mind. I'm like, that is that is what it is. I definitely went through a stretch when those when I was really feeling like this I don't I just don't believe those things and I don't wanna associate with that group, an existential dread that I had never experienced before that.
Adam:Because before that, had answers. It's like, this is what's gonna happen. You're gonna die and you're gonna be in, you know, eternal bliss with everyone you love or whatever forever. Once you leave that, then it is this overwhelming sense of like, we're gonna die and then we're not gonna exist. Sorry.
Adam:I did it. I talked about a thing you said you refused to think about. But like, it's a hard thing to think about.
Dax:I'm not gonna engage with you on this because I just I just don't.
Adam:Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's fair.
Adam:Totally fair.
Dax:Well, talking.
Adam:For what it's worth, I ultimately when I land on that that, like, that thought that, like, all of this is for nothing, I just don't accept it. I just don't believe that. I don't I'm not saying I believe there's, like, a person up above the stars that's like controlling things or that there's a god or that that we're all god. I don't have any specific beliefs about anything. I just refuse to accept that it's all for nothing.
Adam:I just think there's there's some mystery to it, and that's where I'd land. I don't know. Does that make me spiritual? Am I a spiritual person?
Dax:I think so. That's a good belief in something you can't literally see. Yeah. But you feel it in your in your core that it has to be that way.
Adam:But wait, why that? Because I I feel like there's a lot of things I believe that I can't see. I believe electricity works, I can't
Dax:see it. No. But you The reason you believe it is because you know there's an explanation even if you don't.
Adam:I don't know though. I almost like love that I don't know much of anything.
Dax:You don't know like What do you mean?
Adam:Like, don't I don't know. Like, it could just be random and this could all just be stupid and why are we spending our time talking on a podcast?
Dax:Are you talking about electricity or are you talking about what you're talking
Adam:Oh, no. Before the electricity don't know.
Dax:It could be all random. It's just like
Adam:No, no. Yeah. The the life thing, the existence, you know. There's something instead of nothing. That that thing.
Dax:Yeah. I think for me that just has never been that important of a question. I think people ask me like, oh, is it all for nothing? I don't I don't know. It's just like it doesn't even click to me as a good question.
Dax:So, I think if I do think about it like, yeah, I also feel like it's too weird that there is even something instead of just there being nothing. So it's like Yeah. That on its own is already like a very special, amazing, incredible thing. So Yeah. That's that's like enough for me for it to feel like
Adam:Okay.
Dax:I guess that's like spiritual as well.
Adam:Yeah. I do feel like this is a touchy subject. I I don't know. Like, maybe you're not the
Dax:only one that feels like,
Adam:you don't want me to talk about this. I'm gonna stop talking because maybe people listening are like, I don't wanna think about this. Just like stop thinking about it. This was good. It was something.
Adam:It was it was good for me. I don't know if it was good for anybody that happens to listen, but it was good for me. Was it good for you?
Dax:I think we're out of the big topics now.
Adam:Oh, we are? This the
Dax:last one.
Adam:This
Dax:is Shut really
Adam:it down.
Dax:What else
Adam:did 33 episodes. Well, I mean, we could go back to not talking about huge earth
Dax:shattering I think for for people that are not into these huge crazy things, we're well, I think we're out.
Adam:We'll get back
Dax:to that.
Adam:We'll just be talking about like PHP next week or something. Something that's much easier to to think about and reason.
Dax:There there's some joke in there that I I I'm not able to put it together on the spot enough. Something about like
Adam:Well, Laravel forever, there's one.
Dax:I mean, I can't I can't forget the joke. Something about Okay. You believing in PHP without ever having used it. There's something there.
Adam:That's it. That's I mean, that's the joke. It's a concept joke, spiritual. Yeah. There you go.
Dax:Spiritual believer of PHP.
Adam:Oh, that's
Dax:funny. Everyone is keeps saying that every episode we record, there's always someone saying that Adam is doing therapy in public.
Adam:I really it it seems like it, doesn't it? So I will say, I don't know if I said this on that last episode where things got a little unhinged, but I feel like I'm better from, like, a emotional health, mental health standpoint. I'm better than I've been for a long time, I feel like. But I'd I'm definitely susceptible to, like, talk therapy is good for me. Like, my problems that I get into isolation and all these things, I think talk therapy is very helpful.
Adam:So yeah, an element of this is a therapy for me every time I get on a call. So I'm sorry, Dax.
Dax:No. It's not a problem. You're my therapist. Think she's rebrand because there's a I don't know if know who Esther Perella is but she's like one of the most famous I see she's like don't know what her actual title is, but
Adam:I've not heard the
Dax:She's a very famous therapist and she does a podcast where, I I've never actually heard it. Liz listens to it or she has listened to it. It's it's just therapy sessions that people have agreed to be posted publicly. Yeah. And, they obviously anonymize the person.
Dax:And she's like an incredibly good therapist. It's always I think it's always couples therapy. And it's a very successful popular podcast, so
Adam:Well, maybe we can have her on and we do some couples therapy.
Dax:I don't know, that's
Adam:where my mind went. Yeah. Just reach out. Another hour episode.
Dax:Look at that. People can people can listen to it on 2x.
Adam:Yeah. That's right. Or just not listen if you don't want to.
Dax:Maybe they
Adam:hear the beginning and like we're gonna talk about religion, they just check out. Okay. Let's actually go. Bye, Dex.
Dax:See you.
Adam:I actually like while while we're in a part that's being cut out, I actually like that we have little things we can say that are just, like, just for the live show. You have to come join us here on Twitch. Otherwise, you'd miss it. Okay.
