Remix acquired by Shopify
So, Adam, I was excited to see by how excited you got when you heard about the news today about the acquisition. You're on your stream and you just I'm so excited. Yeah. So, yeah, I'd love to hear more about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. You you told me, like, Shopify acquires Remix. And then I went on and on about how excited I was before I realized half of what you were saying. You you, like, explained that it was, like, Hydrogen.
Speaker 2:They were the first to adopt React components, but I'm, like, not reading chat. And I'm just, this is so crazy. Oh my word. And then, like, I didn't understand half the plot.
Speaker 1:So it's easy write. Hole goes deep in this one.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. I can't wait to unpack it. I don't even know where to start. Would you do you have thoughts on where to start here?
Speaker 1:No. I guess, let's just, like, lay out what happened, I guess. Yeah. And so it's so it's still all happening. It's, like, unfolding right now.
Speaker 1:So, you know, this is gonna be more of this probably happening as we're talking about it. But, yeah, news this morning, Remix acquired by Shopify, which is, you know, pretty crazy because people have been wondering, you know, Remix is the underdog. Are they gonna be able to take on Next. Js on their own with Vercel's backing and all this stuff? But now, you know, they're backed by Shopify.
Speaker 1:So one huge on its own. Then, Fred from Astro tweeted he, like, actually read through the blog post and the road map, and Shopify seems to be suggesting that their own framework, which they've been building, Hydrogen, which was the only other React server component framework, is gonna be moving away from RSC, which is a really big deal. I think the narrative is really interesting where, you know, Next. Js conference happened, React server components was released. Everyone wanted to try it.
Speaker 1:I know you had a lot of thoughts on this, and it felt like half baked, terrible, like not good. Then Shopify is announcing, well, we're not gonna be using it either. We just prefer to use, you know, React Router and and that whole model.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Can can you can you, like, unpack that for me? Because it it looked like when I read the the post that was I didn't read the whole thing, but I read parts of it, quoted parts on tweets and stuff. It sounded like they were saying, for now, like, are they is there a chance they're gonna still use RSCs in the future?
Speaker 1:Did you see that? Hedged a lot. And, like, every single place where someone said something about moving away from RSC, they, like, prefaced it or qualified it by saying, we still believe RSCs are great in the future. And I really excited that we think that's the future of React. But we're not using them.
Speaker 1:Right? So it's like, yeah, it's it is interesting. So I
Speaker 2:think
Speaker 1:ultimately, and we we were just having a meeting at SST, and we ended up talking about a bunch about this as well. Because now Next and React are so tied together, any fumble that Next does or Vercel does, like, splashes back on the React. Right? Yeah. Oh, sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think RSCs are fine and great, and then they're gonna be really like, they're gonna be good, and they're gonna work the way they're advertised. But I think Next kinda fumbled this release and, like, you know, where people are trying it out and the bundle sizes are bigger. There's a lot of questions and ambiguity around it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I wanna get into that a lot because I I think that's so much of this story to me is the Vercel response, the Guillermo response
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Like, all
Speaker 2:of this stuff. But I I guess, like so to summarize here, Shopify buying Remix. Shopify powers, like, everything that's e
Speaker 1:commerce Yeah.
Speaker 2:But Amazon. Right? Like, they are it for ecommerce. So now you've got Remix, and they they sort of build a lot of tooling for developers who are building storefronts. Right?
Speaker 2:Like, Shopify provides all this like, in the past, they've got APIs for interacting with your merchant account and all that, but they also provide, like, front end stuff. Right? And so now, presumably, Remix is going to be the way people build their Shopify stores. Is that parsed correctly?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think that makes sense. I think from the beginning, Remix felt like a weird set of trade offs, like the way that they say you should build stuff, but that set of trade offs made perfect sense for ecommerce. And I would argue, like, maybe for nothing else. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So teaming up with Shopify is perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that's the Next. Js thing too. Right? Like, it's mostly it it it fits really well in terms of feature set for ecommerce, and that's what they always cite, like, at the conference they just said.
Speaker 2:It's like, here's all the major ecommerce stores using Next. Js and Vercel. So it's a big deal to Vercel if Remix falls into the hands of Shopify where presumably there's a lot of next ish stores built for Shopify, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I think that's where Vercel makes a lot of money because I think we talked about this in a previous podcast where ecommerce stores deliver a lot of traffic with, like, high quality images, like, this stuff, and Vercel gets to charge people for that. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, like, it's really interesting. It goes right to the heart of their their business model, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And did you see any of the Guillermo response tweets? Because there's been some
Speaker 1:I saw the one where he was kinda sub tweeting like, oh, you you don't want your front end coupled with your back end, something like that. Yeah. Which is really odd because I don't think remakes is gonna get like Shopify specific features. That doesn't really make sense. I think it's just gonna be a framework that you can use with Shopify or with other stuff if you want.
Speaker 1:So I think that was kind of weird. I think he like, he should have workshopped that one more. He was really good at response out. And it just drew attention to the fact that, well, actually, next JS and Vercel are coupled.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly. That's the big subtweet. Like, everybody's sort of piled on that Yeah. The pot calling the kettle black.
Speaker 2:I I don't wanna just keep talking and going jump jumping straight to Vercel and Next. Js, but that's just where my head's at right now. I guess, like, for the Shopify Remix situation, the they're gonna continue to operate Remix as this open source unit. Like, they're gonna keep doing what they've been doing. The Remix folks aren't, like, suddenly working on Shopify internal stuff.
Speaker 2:They're building Remix just as they have been, but they've got this backing. So now I think one of them, Michael Jackson or or I can't remember, Ryan, one of them pointed out that it's a huge deal for a framework like this, just for any open source framework, to now have, like, an indefinite timeline. Like, they have financial backing. They don't have to worry about money. They can focus on building.
Speaker 2:This is a whole another element to this whole thing. Is that all accurate? Did I get all that right that they're steady? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think so. And for a company inside of Shopify, this is the numbers are probably pretty low for them. It's probably, like, a good deal. Even though they're probably really high, like, objectively.
Speaker 1:But for them, you know, to hire two developers of of that quality Yeah. To work on something like this, like, it's like a tiny fraction of anything else they spend their money on.
Speaker 2:So Shopify gets to mean, it's an acquisition. Right? They're acquiring like an acquihire. I don't know if you can acquire MIT licensed software. But
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But like they're gonna have some say right over Ryan and Michael's focus, like what they're building into remix, like, it's gonna be better and better all the time for ecommerce use cases, I would imagine.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I wonder to what degree, like, even need to specialize that hard. I feel like justice just their model, just making that better and more complete and, like, seeing through their vision, coincidentally happens to work well for ecommerce. So I think that might be enough for Yeah. For a long time.
Speaker 1:And I'm sure they, like, negotiated all of that because they'd probably after working independently for so long, and they'd have probably wanted to retain Oh, yeah. That control. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Sorry. And then on the Shopify benefits side, like what they're going to get, I assume they're gonna like, I wasn't jumping to conclusions. Was I that they're gonna, like, package some of remix up into their dev tools that they provide to merchants? Is that presumptuous? Or does it say in the blog post?
Speaker 2:I should read the blog post.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think well, I don't think they explicitly mentioned any of that. And I think if they do that, it'll be I don't think they need to do that anytime soon. But, yeah, I guess hydrogen I think I think they're gonna do
Speaker 2:to me because I've never used or known anything about hydrogen.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm I'm also a little bit I'm, like, not super familiar with it to or I'm not I don't know it to a crazy degree either. But, yeah, it is a React based framework that it's kinda what you're describing. It's it's a little bit more they give you stuff to build storefronts with and predefined things where it all works. And the interesting part is they really focused on the architecture of it so that, you know, it renders in a way that is efficient for ecommerce.
Speaker 1:So I think they will I honestly feel like the Remix team might just go work on React Router more and just make all the Remix feature. And they've already been doing this. Yeah. But just bring all our features to Remix or sorry, to React Router. And then Hydrogen will just use React Router.
Speaker 1:So they're still kinda independent, but, like, you know, there's a nice synergy there. And Hydrogen can be, like, the very focused effort.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I can remember I've played with Shopify in the past. I was building a thing that involved a Shopify plug in. And I can remember, like, if you wanna build a Shopify site for your store, your ecommerce store, and have it be completely headless, kinda getting to Guillermo's tweet where he said, like, they should allow Shopify merchants to build with any front end or whatever and use their back end APIs. They do allow you to do that unless things have changed.
Speaker 2:You just have to have one of the, like, expensive premium accounts. Had to be doing business.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So the like, the current if you're not one of those premium customers, you build with all the Shopify, like, UI stuff, and you don't think that part or is that hydrogen? I'm not sure I understand, like, how it all fits into I'm a merchant. I want a store on Shopify. Am I choosing Remix and Remix like technologies more in the future, or does it not affect it at all based on this deal?
Speaker 1:I think yeah. I do think they have to figure out their pricing model because you can't yeah. You're right. It's it's the the tier is so high. I think it's, like, several thousand a month
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's a lot.
Speaker 1:For for the headless API. And I do wonder why they structured it that way, but it, like, eliminates the type of person that's gonna pick up remix and try to build an e commerce site because you literally can't do that.
Speaker 2:But also the kind of person who would take a Next. Project, like, build a Next. Js storefront, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's it seems like they're really focused on the funnel of when you're small, use our no code tools. When you're successful, build your own thing. Yeah. And I think that funnel has made sense historically, but I think now there's there's just so many good tools for building ecommerce front ends, like remakes next year, like all these things.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, yeah, I feel like they gotta figure out the pricing there. So Does it makes sense?
Speaker 2:So the bigger story here then I think I'm still missing the plot because I I think I keep circling around trying to find something bigger. But the big story here is maybe a a not vote of confidence. What's a lack of vote of confidence? An an anti vote of confidence for RSCs in Hydrogen and the financial backing that now the remix team will have to continue competing with Next. Js and Vercel and the others.
Speaker 2:Is that accurate?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think I think the vote of no confidence, I guess. I don't know how
Speaker 2:you phrase that.
Speaker 1:I again, I don't know if it's that dramatic. Like, they hedged everywhere they said stuff, but you can say stuff. I think the actions matter more. Like, they're not betting on it now.
Speaker 2:And Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like a they have a business they're running. They have to make bets that make sense. Yeah. And they're choosing not to bet on RSCs for the time being. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Just the timing of everything, I think, is is insane. Like, I think there's been all these negative feelings around there's a confusion around RSCs and next 13. And then now someone who should really be pro RSC that's been doing it for a long time Yeah. Is also bailing. It's just like Yeah.
Speaker 1:Doesn't look good.
Speaker 2:So so let's talk about all that confusion. This is the thing that I'm most it's most in my head right now. So Next. J s 13, they just launched at NextConf. And I thought Next.
Speaker 2:J s 13 would be the thing that was pretty baked. Like, if Turbo Pak is a thing that is clearly very unbaked, they're just still mixing stuff in the mixing bowl. Then I thought, like, Next 13 and all the routing stuff, the LayoutsRFC, all of that, I assumed, was pretty well done, like, for public consumption. But so far, it sounds a lot like the next 13, the layouts, the routing, all of it makes sense except it's still a giant client bundle no matter what you do with server components. There's server components by default in the app directory.
Speaker 2:As far as I know, there's people building projects, and I I should do this. But with entirely server components, no client components whatsoever, and it's, a bigger bundle than ever. So is this a you said maybe this is the Next. Js fumble, a Vercel fumble, not so much a React server component fumble, But can you what do you understand of the whole thing? I've been asking.
Speaker 2:I don't seem to get any answers.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I was gonna ask you how you have you seen anyone get a good result yet? No. Because I saw people in replies being like, well, you did x y z wrong.
Speaker 2:Oh, no. I've not seen a single example, like a single project that was like, look, here, you did the right thing. You turned on the right experimental flag or whatever. Now the bundles are tiny. Haven't seen it.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. So I from what I understand about RSCs, I feel like this is it's just not packaged. Like, I don't know what they're doing. They did something wrong. It shouldn't be worse than next 12, which is what I'm
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Seeing. That seems impossible. Like, RCs can't be that bad. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think I I don't know. It just feels like maybe I haven't heard anything from them either. I feel like there's, like, this big vacuum of Yes. Wait. What?
Speaker 1:And I'm I haven't seen anyone anything from their side clarifying. Even just saying, oh, you guys are right. This isn't working right now, but it's gonna work. So This vacuum is weird.
Speaker 2:Saw Dan or some somebody. I think it was somebody from the React team say that, oh, yeah, Next 13 is missing this x y z optimization, which sounds like the whole thing. Like, if it's not pulling JavaScript out the bundle, isn't the whole point what we've been sold on the whole Next 13 server components? All of this was, like, small bundles and not shipping JavaScript if you don't need to. And that's not the case.
Speaker 2:And when is it gonna be the case?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. I think something clicked for me. I think what happened was Vercel was very excited about the API changes that RSCs provide. Right?
Speaker 1:Before you had, like, get server side props, all these things. And now there's, like, one clean way to do everything. Yeah. Like, whether it's client, whether it's ISR, whether it's SSR, like, there's just one very natural React way of fetching data. That's probably what they were super excited about and excited to demo.
Speaker 1:Because that stuff works. Right? Yeah. But I think everyone what maybe what they miss is everyone is so trained on these performance things now just because it's been the conversation for for the past year. Everyone's obsessed with this.
Speaker 1:So I I almost feel like people are are, like, don't really care about the API chains, which are, I think, good, and we'll clean up all your code. It just seems like everyone's glossing over that, and they're just focused on the performance thing, which maybe Vercel expected it to be the other way around where, like, oh, they can wait for the performance stuff. They're gonna be excited about the API.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You I think they just didn't read the room. Like, you've got all these HTML first frameworks that are making more and more buzz. Everyone's really excited about shipping as little JavaScript as possible. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, I mean, for ecommerce, that makes sense. Right? Like, you should be shipping as little JavaScript as possible. Like, a 160 k bundle for a storefront, that's bad. Like, right?
Speaker 2:Am I crazy? No.
Speaker 1:That that is bad. And I feel like like, really interactive apps I've built haven't even been that big. So
Speaker 2:It's worse than, like, a spa, and it's not supposed to be. It's supposed to be this other thing. So I I just think, like, most of the conversation, at least in Twitter circles and wherever else, like, of the conversation these days is very performance aware. Like, people know how big bundles are and how big the React runtime is and, like, all these things, people are very aware. So I I think it's pretty crazy to me that no one on their side expected this kind of pushback or this kind of confusion when the bundles are giant and we're using server components.
Speaker 2:And that was the whole thing,
Speaker 1:I thought. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Old man yelling at Cloud. That's how feel right now. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What else what else happened? I think oh, there were some more details about Remix as a business. I don't know if you saw that. Ryan Florence tweeted some stuff about it. He mentioned that do you remember that Remakes used to be a private a proprietary framework license?
Speaker 2:Pay for the license. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So he said they were closing in on 200 k ARR prior to their one point o.
Speaker 2:ARR annual. Okay.
Speaker 1:Recurring.
Speaker 2:200. Okay. So, like, okay. 10
Speaker 1:k plus a I think the license must renew every year or something. Otherwise, it's just a one time. It wouldn't be ARR. Yeah. So then they pit they, like, then they decided to raise VC so that they could what did they say?
Speaker 1:So they could
Speaker 2:Oh, I did see this tweet.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. So they could skip, like, having to focus on growing ARR in the short term. Yeah. And acquisition And now that was focus.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So that was interesting because everyone's been curious about, like, what was their business model and what did it look like when they were charging. So yeah, 200 k ARR, you know, for it's not that big, but
Speaker 2:I'm surprised it was
Speaker 1:Yeah. Was gonna say, for what it was yeah. For what it was, I'm pretty surprised. Proprietary framework, 200 k r, like, very good.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Interesting. I don't yeah. The whole remix crap, I I just don't know, like, I've never played with it. Have you actually built anything with remix?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I played with it. We actually support remix on SSDs. I wanna we we don't support next very well. We we support remix incredibly well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, because it's a lot easier to deploy. Right?
Speaker 1:Like Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Is a nightmare to deploy. That was funny. I saw a a Guillermo tweet. I keep bringing all this back to Guillermo Yeah. In Vercel.
Speaker 2:But I saw a Guillermo tweet that was, like, about he was trying to combat the whole argument you can't deploy Next anywhere else, and it was like, you can deploy it on AWS and yada yada yada yada, and, like, I've know all these sites that that are doing that. It's impossible. I mean, not impossible, but it's a lot of work. And to have all the features is just a fool's errand. You're just not keeping up with all the features they roll out.
Speaker 2:Next 13 now, I don't even think the open source solution for deploying Next. Js on AWS is that serverless Next. Js framework. It's like an open source library. There's, a single maintainer, and he's trying to get out.
Speaker 2:They're so on
Speaker 1:this. Oh, it's abandoned. It's yeah. Completely abandoned.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was on next 11. They couldn't get next 12 done, and now there's next 13. So yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You definitely can deploy. And we like, we we've tried. We have really tried. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So so the remix, what is it with the remix crew though? Why are they why are they so bitter? That's the only my only question is like, why are they so angry on the internet?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:This is like especially if they're
Speaker 1:getting fire. Yeah. It's a great day for them. And I feel
Speaker 2:like the last month, they've surely known this and why they been salty at all? I'd be like, doing my victory lap, just not saying it yet. Like
Speaker 1:Yeah. Everything's kinda out amazing for them. But I think I just feel this is the way they they'd like living their life. Like, is what they're into. It's the way they wanna interact with the world and how they wanna get their stuff out there.
Speaker 1:I think yeah. Like you said, for me, it's like, oh, now I can chill. I'm not stressed anymore. Because we were perceiving it as the angst comes from the stress of being this underdog, trying to get something out there and, like, worried about being crushed. But now they have, like, backing.
Speaker 1:They don't have to worry anymore. But it's still the same. So I guess it was never angst driven. It just like
Speaker 2:They still had the same, like, chip on their shoulder because they're still, like, Guillermo's still talking down to them on Twitter and, like Yeah. They're still having to deal with the, like, are we relevant? Is it just a Next. Js world that we live in? That whole thing, I guess.
Speaker 2:That makes sense.
Speaker 1:That's another thing. I feel like I hadn't seen Guillermo tweet anything specific. You know, like, I've I've been following him forever. I feel like I just generally hear, like, retweets about Next. Js or their events.
Speaker 1:And now all of a sudden, there's, like
Speaker 2:It's getting spicy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Out of nowhere. So that behavior change is also something to note. You know?
Speaker 2:Oh, for sure. I no. I've been reading the Guillermo tea leaves. I can't help it. I, like, I went through his tweets and replies.
Speaker 2:I'm just, like, reading everything he's tweeted in the last twenty four hours just after this announcement. And I I've just not seen him be this, like, vocally against other it always felt like Vercel was kind of up on this mountain above everything else. They just above the fray. They didn't have to think about other competitors or, like, acknowledge their existence. That has definitely changed in some tangible sense.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting that they just came off their big conference, big moment for them. This should be, like, peak Vercel excitement and does not seem that that is the case. I mean, just based on Guillermo tweets. I don't know. I'm reading into a lot, but we got it.
Speaker 2:It's just it's so fun. All this drama. It's just so fun. I was
Speaker 1:so excited when I saw it today. I can't because I I saw it this morning, and I started watching your stream, and I was like, I'm an idiot. How did I not bring this up already? It's been, like, twenty minutes. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I brought it up and you're, like, boom, like, like, flew into it. This
Speaker 2:is so exciting. I yeah. I just I feel like things are changing the most they've changed in the web landscape in a long time. I do think this is the year I think it's there's a high likelihood I feel like five years from now, we're looking back at this kind of time period where things started to change. And I don't know what it all looks like, but I do think there's a lot of interesting players in the space, like a lot of frameworks that are very compelling and look more compelling all the time.
Speaker 2:And if you already were looking for a reason not to use React, you're just kinda tired of it. If you've been building with React for five years, there's there's a lot of interesting places you can look now.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We were talking about this earlier where we love like I said, we have a Remix construct that works perfectly. We love building stuff for these new frameworks, like Remix. We're doing one for Astra. We're doing one for Solid Start.
Speaker 1:We're gonna do one for SvelteKit. It's so easy for us because all these frameworks standardize around HTTP requests. We do our magic. Here's the HTTP response. Just make sure you serve that correctly, and everything's just gonna work.
Speaker 1:And that is, like, so easy for us to implement. We can just support all of these frameworks on AWS really easily. And it really feels like, oh, these projects are architected for, like, the future. Like, every they're gonna be deployed serverlessly on AWS, on Cloudflare, like, wherever you need it. It's gonna work exactly the same way.
Speaker 1:That feels definitely different than Yeah. The story around NextJS in Vercel.
Speaker 2:Yeah. NextJS feels like it's designed around building something that only Vercel can run. I mean, it has to be right. Like, there's no way I know they would never, like, admit that. But there's no way that doesn't play into their consideration in terms of their road map.
Speaker 2:Like, they know they got a way to deploy Next. Js. A lot of people use Next. Js, and you need to run it on Vercel if you don't want pain. And they can point to a few cases of huge companies that deploy it in other ways.
Speaker 2:But ultimately, like, that's that's their whole thing. And the it drives has to drive their product road map, I would think.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I think, like, who's who actually offers a commercial solution for next j s outside of them? I think I think Netlify has
Speaker 2:Netlify. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And amplify.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amplify switch. I think amplifies is gonna get a little better. I think right now, I don't I don't know what Amplify does, but I think it's getting ready to support more of the features. I I think they're gonna go more the containerized, like the Netlify route where, like, they're running Next. Js and managing the infrastructure for you, not just deploying it into serverless stuff.
Speaker 2:I don't actually, I don't know. Yeah. No. I do know. Amplify not leaking anything.
Speaker 2:This is just the current ample Amplify implementation uses that abandoned open source library. As
Speaker 1:as do we.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Just like SSC. So they're moving away from that into more of the Netlify model, which I think Netlify runs it in containers. It's running Next. Js, so they get all the features just like Vercel does.
Speaker 2:But the only people like Netlify or AWS can compete with a Vercel. I mean, like, smaller it's hard for, like, SST. You guys can't well, maybe you
Speaker 1:can, but run No. It's hard. We can't. We tried, and we've we did I think now we Frank tried, and he's, like, bloodied by by the effort. And we're talking about just offering a container version of it as well because Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, it it's gonna take a full time team to support those features.
Speaker 2:Yep. Oh, man. All the drama. I love it. I feel like I probably missed, like, five tweets that are really juicy just in the time we've been talking.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. And they also announced it in they announced it early. So like me and you, like the time zone we're in, it's like it worked for us. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people woke up to the drama already unfollowed. Oh, People
Speaker 2:on the West Coast.
Speaker 1:So Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They're they're still rolling out of bed in the West Coast, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, the usual people commenting on this, I haven't seen them comment on it yet. So I think they maybe haven't even woken up and seen it yet. Yeah. Think the best is still yet to come.
Speaker 2:Still to come. Well, this has been fun. I really am enjoying this We Can Talk About Whatever We Want podcast. Yeah. Coming from, like, having an AWS podcast, now it's like, there's no no limits to what we could talk about in one episode, really.
Speaker 1:Yeah. As long as the DevRel keeps providing us with drama every single week, I think I think we're safe. Fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I think they'll keep continuing to happen. Yeah. Alright.
Speaker 2:Cool. Do you have anything else you wanna say on this?
Speaker 1:No. I think that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Same. Alright. Thanks, Dax. See you.
Speaker 1:See you.
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