The Dog Episode
I thought there was a copy machine or something next to you that was running
Speaker 2:I just took his food away. He's just looking at me like, what the fuck?
Speaker 1:This is the dog episode for sure.
Speaker 2:So Adam, you have a wife and two kids and you live in this nice house with a bunch of land, but you don't have a dog. So I wanna know, are you guys dog people? Are you gonna get a dog? My like I said, I feel like you wouldn't have a dog, but I don't know. Tell me.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I'm hesitant to tell you because it's kind of fun to watch you try and think about this and decide whether I'm a dog person or not. It's kind of enjoyable for me. I don't know. Could we just live in this moment for a little bit longer where you don't know whether we like dogs or not?
Speaker 2:Let let me explain why I think you guys won't the the vibe you guys have, something about it feels like you wouldn't have a dog. I don't know. Is it because you guys are vegan?
Speaker 1:Like, you think we hate dogs?
Speaker 2:No. Not that not that you hate dogs.
Speaker 1:Because we're vegan?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah. You you Don't Isn't that mean eat your dog at the end
Speaker 1:of We would love animals more. Right? No.
Speaker 2:No. No. He said, yes, but I can't explain it. I feel like
Speaker 1:We just don't seem like dog people to you? Do we seem like cat people?
Speaker 2:You don't seem like you'd have pets. Okay. And maybe just because of pictures of your house are just like very like everything's like in the right place at all times and the chaos of a dog. I just don't know if that fits.
Speaker 1:I see that. That So that we're a little OCPD. We're a little we have a clean problem. Like, things have to be just so
Speaker 2:Which you can still maintain when you have a dog. So I don't know. It's something it's just like a gut feel, I feel like.
Speaker 1:No, you can't. You can't. I know this because we had dogs before we had boys. We so okay. So we had a dog mostly.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you about both of our dogs. Marley, who my parents now have, is a little miniature, what are they called, Yorkie. Actually, the coolest dog in the world. So Marley is a Yorkie. Yorkies are normally, like, just a little high energy, you know, just a little too much.
Speaker 1:This one, totally calm, the most relaxed. They called they named him Marley literally after Bob Marley because he's just so mellow. Like, he just lays around. He's just the coolest dog. He's now, like, 12, 13.
Speaker 1:I don't know. We had him since he was little. And then when we had kids, he was peeing on everything in sight. I think they get jealous of kids. I don't know.
Speaker 1:And he went to my parents, and that's where he lives now. But we also had a boxer for, like, six months, like a young, full grown, but baby boxer. And it was he had a lot of energy. He needed to be, like, run around the neighborhood all day long to just, like, get it all out, and we were not good at that. Well, this was also when we had our first, who's now eight.
Speaker 1:So it's been almost a decade, I guess, since I've had dogs. But we did have dogs. They were our little children. We had pictures of them in our phone. It was just constantly like, look at what the dog did.
Speaker 1:So I get dog people. I understand it. But, yeah, once we had kids, it was just very hard to take care of the dogs as well. So they found new homes.
Speaker 2:I see.
Speaker 1:But I'm still a dog person. I still like dogs.
Speaker 2:Are you do you guys are you guys gonna get one at some point? Do your kids want one?
Speaker 1:This is a this is a conversation that started creeping Now that, like, the littlest is three and he's more manageable all the time, we started saying, like, are we gonna get to the point where we're like, life is too easy. We should get a dog. And I'm afraid it's gonna happen. Afraid one of the boys is gonna get attached to some neighbor dog or something and be like, yes, we need a dog. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I it just sounds like actually, I could see myself being talked into it. I couldn't see my wife. Casey's probably not gonna be down
Speaker 2:with the dog. It's probably not happening. I see. Yeah. I mean, Liz describes in the same way.
Speaker 2:She's like, our entire life is just we hit a point of stability then we just bring on some, like, new form of chaos and Yeah. And then we're just back to Exactly. The same place over and over, repeat.
Speaker 1:Why can't we just have nice things? Why can't we just enjoy life? Why do we have to do this ourselves?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Interesting. So maybe, but you have to convince Casey.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, I enjoyed like, the boxer was actually the sweetest dog in the world and it was so much fun to have a boxer for a while. We we let him in the house. Like, he lived in the house with us. It was just this giant dog.
Speaker 1:We'd always had little dogs. Like growing up, I had a little poodle, like a miniature poodle, all all of my growing up years. So I've always been around small dogs to have like a giant oh, I'm sure Zuko is huge. Like, it's just a different experience. Big dogs are totally different.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I will say I'm obviously biased but here's why I like having Dobermans is so they're big and I think with a big dog, you just get a bunch of things you don't with small dogs. Like, you just like connect with them more and like, they feel more like people in a way. And they're like Yeah. They're definitely, like, more intelligent in general, so you can bond with them a lot.
Speaker 2:But Dobermans are, like, they're, like, kind of, like, related to Great Danes. So And you know how they're super lazy, like, Danes are, like, super lazy and they're so big and they're lazy. Yeah. Romans are kind of similar in that, like, Even when he was a pup and he's still a pup, he just turned one. But, like, he, like, is really chill when he's inside for the most part, despite his size, like, he's not, like, knocking shit over and everything.
Speaker 2:Of course, he's still a dog so they're, like, to some degree, like, he will get his little burst. But I had a lab growing up. I had, like, another rescue that was, like, a mix, like, a lab plus an Australian Shepherd mix and those dogs were, like, insane all day. So compared to that, Durbin's like, you know, very, very common. Probably the easiest dog I've ever had, so
Speaker 1:Do they do they shed everywhere though? Are they a shedding dog?
Speaker 2:No. Well, so that's another thing. So I had these like super sheddy dogs. Zuko does shed, but for a while we actually thought he didn't because, like, we weren't really seeing it. But his hair is really short Yeah.
Speaker 2:And black. So when he does shed, it's not, like, super obvious. Ah. And it's really not a lot. He's like not zero shedding dog but he's like a very low shedding dog and, like my other dogs would like dump like entire sweaters worth of fur on the ground and so it's very different.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So yeah, I think all around, you know, calm dog, easy to train, super smart, shedding is not a big deal. The size is the only thing that is like, you know, some people can't manage a dog with a certain size but like, you know, you guys will be fine so
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's my recommendation. Plus, you need security on that property.
Speaker 1:I know the security element. Yeah. It's that aspect of it is very attractive. And the I don't know, Zuko Zuko, like, I've never really had opinions about Dobermans. But seeing all the pictures in the video of Zuko does make them seem pretty cool.
Speaker 1:I've considered it. But, yeah, we gotta talk Casey to We'll see. Okay. I think I've just gone from like, no, we'll never have a dog to like, now I just gotta talk my wife into it. Just in the space
Speaker 2:of this everyone's wives end up not liking me because I just create problems for them.
Speaker 1:I could see that. I could see that. Speaking of dogs, did you catch the congressional hearing with, Sam Altman? The thing with the dogs. It was not like a slight
Speaker 2:saw the pictures and like the memes and I saw like one or two lines but I will like for a reason, just was like, I don't wanna see this. But yeah, I'm interested to hear about it. Like, what did you take away?
Speaker 1:Well, the the main thing I took away or the the thing I heard, I did not watch it and I have not really consumed much about it. But I did hear the line he said about not having equity. He doesn't have equity in OpenAI? What's that about? What I know he's not just like altruistic.
Speaker 1:There's something we're missing.
Speaker 2:No. I mean, I'm sure he has like a bunch of indirect stuff where like he invested in a fund that invested in OpenAI. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a setup like that.
Speaker 1:Well, it don't don't they have some plan for some cryptocurrency or something?
Speaker 2:No, that's a different company, the world coin thing.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's a different company. Oh, okay. Not related to OpenAI. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So on one hand, I'm sure he has some connection but on the other hand, I can also kind of believe it because like, he has more money than he ever can spend probably so
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 2:I don't know, why not? But something I mean, the whole company structure is so weird, right? Because they were supposed to be, like, a
Speaker 1:They they were open, right?
Speaker 2:And they transitioned to something else. So it's because in a in a typical company, you absolutely want the CEO to have equity because like, that you need them and bought in and invested, like, it's like weird that they wouldn't have any.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But given the history of this company, I'm like, maybe that's why it ended up weird. I'm sure there's some like like, high benefits in some indirect way. I don't know.
Speaker 1:So you do you dislike do you like Sam Altman or you have problems with him? What are your opinions on Sam Altman?
Speaker 2:I don't I don't think I have much of an opinion because I don't think he is a very strong personality. Not it's not a criticism. I just feel like
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. It's true.
Speaker 2:There's there's, like, not enough there to either like or hate.
Speaker 1:He's not like Paul Graham. Like, Paul Graham has strong personality. I think I just dislike anyone associated with Y Combinator. Why do I dislike everything about Y Combinator? Oh, you're associated with Y Combinator.
Speaker 1:I think I just dislike you and everything you're associated with.
Speaker 2:It sounds like someone got rejected and has been salty forever.
Speaker 1:Listen. I did. Okay. Here's the thing. I have applied to Y Combinator twice, and neither time did I want to apply to Y Combinator.
Speaker 1:It was in both situations, the person I was involved with really wanted to be in accepted into Y Combinator. And I have always had the similar the same stance that it's like the epitome of Silicon Valley to me, and I hate it. I hate Hacker News. I hate Y Combinator. I hate everything that's like, you should hire people in the bay because they're better.
Speaker 1:I know that's just an Ozarks chip on my shoulder. Like, I just don't like, I don't know, people in the big tech hubs basically.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I get that too. I've I've always kind of felt that way about San Francisco. I like wanted to always do stuff outside of it but I definitely get that. I think the the YC thing is I go back and forth because I have applied several times and I've been mix of accepted and rejected.
Speaker 2:And the times where they've rejected, I've always felt like, this oh, is a 100% a lottery. Of course, I'm gonna feel that way. Yeah. But I don't know, it to me, it it is a lottery. Like, anything at that scale just becomes a lottery.
Speaker 1:There's so many applicants Yeah.
Speaker 2:When there's yeah. So, like, SST went through YC and that was before like, they were in YC, like, right when I joined or they were the tail in the YC when I joined. So I wasn't, like, part of it really. Yeah. I like Frank and Jay because they, like it's almost like a technicality that they went through it.
Speaker 2:It was not like like, people never know that we're like a YC company. They're they're always surprised
Speaker 1:didn't know. I mean, I think I was surprised whenever I did find out.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So they're both they were both, like, already very experienced in, like, building companies and they did appreciate the YC experience because, like, I can tell it's almost what they talk about they learn there and it's all like like good stuff. And it just removed like a whole class of problems in terms of when we wanna raise like, you know, the initial steps like it just like removes like getting those meetings and stuff. But yeah, they definitely get give off the vibe where like, yeah, it helped but like, it kinda would have been if they never went to YC, like, just it kinda wouldn't have mattered in the history of the company.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't for what it's worth, I don't dislike people who participate, like companies that get into YC. It's more the leadership and the people at the top that bother me.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Yeah. One of the other thing I was the way I was gonna end that was there are other companies that go through it where it just feels very much like they could only have ever existed if they went through YC and all their customers or other YC companies that are also VC funded and it's just like moving the same money around in circles. There's definitely a lot of that in that world. And I think all that law is coming to an end because it just is not possible anymore, but I get it.
Speaker 1:Wait. What do you mean it's not possible? Is is the is the venture capital thing is it actually drying up?
Speaker 2:It is. Yeah. It's like it's depends what you mean by drying up, but
Speaker 1:Well, it's just been like it's been a decade of, like, historic levels of capital injected into startups. And I've felt like with the changing monetary policy and all the stuff that's happening, macroeconomic, whatever, I felt like there's it's the venture capital market should be tightening.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The first
Speaker 1:There was just a, like, a big lag, it seemed like, between the real changes and then what's maybe happening now.
Speaker 2:No, it it is tightening. It's continuing to tighten and I think it's reverting back to okay, I just refer to the last five years like the weird years. And if I look before then, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'd like remember what it was like before then, it was different.
Speaker 1:And it
Speaker 2:feels like it's reverting back to that now where Yeah. When you're raising a series a, like, you need a business model and you need to have proved out that you can earn money and you need to be earning money, like, those are all things that people ask about now. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's how it used to be. Like, people wanted to know if your business could be a business, like, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It is like quote unquote drying up but it's to I think technically it's just returning to a sane place.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Relative to where we were, it feels like, oh, it's like, you know, tightening. But I think it's going back to normal place. But it is a lot harder for people to raise series a's now, especially companies that were set up to like, not have to think about making money to like a b or c. Now they have to think about that for their a and they're not set up that well and their team is too big and, yeah, it's gonna be tough like, I know of people's companies that are trying to raise like, know, like a $20,000,000 round and they have like 5 figures of revenue per year and just like Oof. That's just not gonna be possible at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We tried to raise a $20,000,000 b when we had no revenue. We didn't even have like a plan for how to to raise or how to actually make money. Like, it was it was laughable, actually.
Speaker 2:But did you guys have a lot of traffic at least?
Speaker 1:Back then, no. I mean, when we tried to raise our b, this is, like, five years ago, six years ago. We had it was just our a was so easy to raise. It, like, kinda let itself three months after we closed our seed. It just kinda like, we had multiple options come to us.
Speaker 1:The a was so easy that it was just like, oh, we used up those two that $10,000,000 or we have plans to use it up pretty quickly, so let's go out and raise 20. Let's just let's get back on the trail. And then we were met with a rude awakening. But they they don't just hand you $20,000,000.
Speaker 2:In hindsight, do you think you could have made that $10,000,000 last to the point where you never had to raise again?
Speaker 1:I don't know about never raise again, but we could have made it last a lot longer. We definitely went out after we raised our a and just, like, played startup, like, hired 10 people immediately. And we had no reason to hire 10 people. Like, we didn't actually have it wasn't driven by good organic reasons. It was just like, we have capital.
Speaker 1:We should use it. And that's mean, to be honest, that's like what the investors are telling you, and the investors make up your board at that stage. And it's like, yeah, deploy the capital. Hire people. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Market it. Do something. The whole, like, poking with stick thing. Just like do stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But we could have made it last a lot longer, surely. I mean, if we would have hired like two or three people and just stayed pretty small.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we're gonna be raising an a round in the next probably start in the next six months or so. And, yeah, it is gonna be tougher than it would have been before. We're in an okay position though because we have just three people and we're making money and we're gonna like the next six months are all gonna be
Speaker 1:Yeah, you guys have the dream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we we have, set up really well. So at this point, again, who knows what's gonna actually happen? But I think the range of possibilities are over the next six months, we can either, like, really grow our revenue because that's what we're focused on, and then maybe we'll grow it to a point where we have we technically don't need to raise. And if we raise in a situation like that, then we're not gonna have to, like, give up. If we do give a board seat, it's gonna be, like, very selective to someone that, like, we can really decide.
Speaker 2:Yep. If we're in a situation where we have to raise, I think we're still gonna be okay in being able to do it. But it might be that we have to, like, you know, give a board seat to someone that we don't necessarily want. So that's at the range of possibilities right now, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's just that's how life works. It's that way it's that way for everything, not just fundraising. Right? Like, you wanna be in a position of strength Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Whether it's looking for a new job or whatever, they'll have better options on the table if you don't need it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So much is about timing. Like, if you can wait like one or two months, like your dream outcome might be sitting there versus having to like take whatever's on the table right away. Yeah. It's crazy how it all like comes down to that a lot of the times.
Speaker 1:You Did you have something you gained from the the congressional hearing that we talked about like ten minutes ago?
Speaker 2:I think there there's like a few principles that I just Not many but there's a couple principles that I just like fundamentally believe in. And I think I saw one of those kind of come out in this because Sam Altman was saying that you need to have so he's going to the government and he knows and when you're a company like that, that big at the forefront of something, you have pretty much only one strategy which is the government is gonna come and try to regulate what I'm doing. So I can't really resist that, like it's gonna happen. So you flip and you, like, welcome the regulation. You're like, I want regulation.
Speaker 2:You see this like a lot of times with big companies and you can at least shape it to hurt your competitors that haven't even that don't even exist yet, right? Like if now that they're up and running, if there's like a bunch of regulation, like they're fine, they've already raised money, they can do it all. A new startup is not gonna be able to, like, get past that regulation. And this happens in every industry, like Facebook was doing the same thing when they were asking for regulation.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But I really hate that. I'm, like, extremely opposed to
Speaker 1:It's annoying. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm really really opposed to that. Especially when it's a new industry, we don't really know how anything is gonna work. Yeah. Premature regulation just means that, oh, you just solidified the incumbent. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You just picked the winner right there. So yeah, I didn't like that and I was like I'm like very skeptical of of any any like big company asking for that.
Speaker 1:How how would they even now we're two people that didn't watch or listen to the hearing, so what do we know? But they how would they even regulate AI? Like, in these stages, what would that look like? Can you think of anything that would be actually good?
Speaker 2:I have no idea because one, I don't really I don't even know what they would do. It's just so, like, made up at this point that the problem is made up and the solutions are gonna be made up as well. So I I have no idea and it's like, it's just like technology so anyone can open source something and someone you can't stop someone from running it on their own. Right. Like, I don't I don't know.
Speaker 2:I feel like we're, like, really ahead of ourselves. I felt that way with the with this fight from the beginning, like, we're getting, like, really ahead of ourselves if we're talking about, like, having to, like, drop bombs on other countries' data centers because of this AI threat and I'm just like
Speaker 1:Oh, jeez.
Speaker 2:I don't Like, it's all really cool. I I I can actually hear I saw something today that was amazing. So Aaron and I forgot his name. Aaron Budeman, I forgot. He's the CEO of this company called, Replicash, which I talk about a lot.
Speaker 2:I use it. He wrote he really wrote, hate to be another person writing a thread about AI, but here are my thoughts. He had a really good point, which is the feeling that we're all feeling right now is we saw a bunch of things that seemed impossible go from being impossible to possible. Mhmm. And the natural effect that we're that's that comes from that is now we think that anything that's impossible is now possible.
Speaker 2:So I think we're in that phase where like we just saw a bunch of creative stuff happen. So now it's like, oh, we think this is gonna lead to like everything, you know? But there actually is no direct tie with the stuff that was accomplished is amazing and it's gonna change the world a lot, but that doesn't mean like we have like Zuko. We're gonna have like he's squeaking his toy now.
Speaker 1:It's it's a dog episode. It's fine.
Speaker 2:Go ahead. It doesn't mean we're gonna have like, know, this is a this is this might not even be the path to like Sentient AI or anything, but we're like all operating as though we know for sure it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. The the whole, like, Microsoft research paper where they said sparks of AGI, that didn't help because I've heard the the truthers now. Like, that's the thing they're clinging to. Like, it's already AGI.
Speaker 1:We're already there. Yeah. And I don't know if it does anyone even know, yeah, what that would look like? At the same time, there's two things in my head. It's like we do need to, like, protect ourselves from, I don't know, AI doing things that it shouldn't do, I guess.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. But, like, is the government ever gonna be capable of doing that? I don't I just don't I don't know how those two things reconcile.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That that's the other side of it. Like, I'm also I think it's, like, very few things that the government can solve. And then government can, like, nudge things with incentives but I don't think they can like actively solve a problem directly because those solutions just need to emerge from the people that are Yeah. More entrenched in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like really like do you think like, I don't even get what the point of these hearings are, like it's clearly like just like a show for show thing, right, like
Speaker 1:Probably. The
Speaker 2:politicians don't learn anything really, they couldn't have you know, have their assistant tell them and like, they actually gonna come with any any solution? I don't I I don't know, it's all like a weird show thing. It's like all made But that's kind of what the government is, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's all entertainment at this point. Everything has turned into entertainment. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I sound like old man yelling at Cloud right now.
Speaker 2:I think I have a slightly less cynical view of it. I think the government is there and everything they do, they do to make us feel like we're somewhat represented so we don't freak out and just start killing everyone and try to become the next dictator. And as long as they're doing that, like, if they can just guarantee that we're not flipping that switch. Yeah. Like, just if you can maintain that long enough, I think you just become a good society.
Speaker 2:Because most societies are just like, they do well for a while, then, like, some rebellion happens, a new dictator, and they kinda reset, like, over and over and over
Speaker 1:and over. Yeah. Do you what do you think The US is capable on that front capable of? Like, do you think our society could ever crumble and go into just complete chaos? Like, the I don't know.
Speaker 1:People talked about all the tensions, you know, with Trump and with, like, his following. Do you think there's ever a world where there's actual, like, civil war in The US and governments are being overthrown? Or is that just, like, so out of the realm of possibility that it's never gonna happen?
Speaker 2:I don't know. But, like, the system the job of the system is to make sure that everyone feels represented enough that they're not gonna do that. Like, I think people think, yeah, democracy should figure out, like, they're they're optimized to figure out problem solutions. I don't think that. I think they're just optimized to, like, chill everyone out for a long amount of time so that everything else can work around it.
Speaker 2:So from that point of view, I think, yeah, our system works really well. That said, like, it's all like, we talked about the other day, I feel like it's all scale dependent. You know, at our scale of country, that probably is the best system we can hope for. That said, there's, like, these mini dictatorships that exist, like pseudo dictatorships that exist that are, like, kinda nice, like Singapore, for example. Like, that effectively is, like, like, fascist state in a way, but it's small and it's, like, well run.
Speaker 2:So they get,
Speaker 1:like Mhmm.
Speaker 2:It's it's like a nice, it's like a kind of a paradise in a lot of ways and like everything works well and the infrastructure is great and and all this stuff is good but you couldn't just scale that to a country, The United States size and have it all work this way. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Makes sense.
Speaker 2:Feel we'll always kinda be jealous of other places like that are like specifically better. But you know, at our size, like, is the best we can do.
Speaker 1:Okay. This is this we started with dogs, then we got into geopolitics, AI. I don't know where this episode lands, but I think it was better than the last one though.
Speaker 2:I I remember when we were in track when I was in track, we when I was in the track team, we would have like our normal workouts and then once every month or once every two weeks, we do like a really insane workout that none of us were really suited for. Mhmm. So it would suck and we would just do terrible at it. But it was like, it was good to like Pushes you? Yeah.
Speaker 2:A little bit? Yeah. But like it feels bad in the moment because you just suck. But I think that's what we just went through.
Speaker 1:I guess we didn't say ever on the podcast that we just recorded for this week because we're gonna be gone next week. Well, I'm gonna be gone next week on vacation. Yeah. And our editor is also gonna be gone on vacation. So
Speaker 2:And I'm gonna be getting a ton of work done because of those.
Speaker 1:And Dax is just gonna get stuff done because there's no distractions Yeah. No podcasts. Okay. Bye.
Speaker 2:See you.
