NYC Event, OCaml, and Dax Explains Steaks to Adam (Vegan Edition)
Multiple people live in this building? I thought we're the only apartment.
Speaker 2:No. No. There's a
Speaker 1:bunch of apartments in
Speaker 2:this building. Oh, there
Speaker 1:is? Yeah. Yeah. We're just number one?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's kinda cool. We got number one.
Speaker 2:Do we
Speaker 1:have to pay extra? Because there's more.
Speaker 2:This is our third time doing this thing together, meeting up and and streaming.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? Terminal? Yeah. Third time terminal is not a thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because we did it in Miami and Dallas and now we're in New York. And our setup has gotten better each time. And easier. And easier.
Speaker 2:Like, I think we we like rebound some some things and like we got this all set up pretty quickly and it's working.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And my bag weighed like 30 pounds less.
Speaker 2:I know. I think more than 30 pounds. Right? No problem. You had like you had that whole giant separate bag.
Speaker 1:Oh, well the first time. So Miami, yeah. I brought way too much stuff. It's gotten less every
Speaker 2:time. Yeah. Kept trimming it and now
Speaker 1:Next time I'm not even bringing clothes. I'm just gonna be like, showing up no bags. What's up guys? Yeah. No.
Speaker 1:I I had a bag packed that was my full duffel full of equipment and then you sent that text and said we could use an iPhone and I got to remove all of it and just put my clothes in
Speaker 2:the duffel. Really amazing the times we live in. Yeah. And look, I I brought this little thing just in case.
Speaker 1:So podcast, this is the podcast. We're doing a terminal thing. Yes. Did we talk about this thing? Did we talk about this on the top podcast ever that we were doing this thing in New York?
Speaker 2:We must have we must have brought it up. I feel
Speaker 1:like it had to have
Speaker 2:come up, but
Speaker 1:like I feel like in the past, like the Dallas thing, we talked about it every episode for like three episodes. It's like, we're gonna go to Dallas soon.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then it was like, we're
Speaker 1:going to Dallas tomorrow.
Speaker 2:You know what it was? I think it's because that was we said we're playing basketball publicly for a while, and this we haven't even said it. And I guess we can say it now because the podcast wants come out
Speaker 1:on Monday.
Speaker 2:Okay. Wait. Let let's actually just talk about what we're doing. So we're doing another terminal event. This time, it is an event in New York.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. We're here. We rented out a theater. 300 people are coming to watch us, and we're doing a live family. Juggling.
Speaker 2:Juggling. Magic trick.
Speaker 1:There might be a magic trick.
Speaker 2:React 16 update. So no. Rec JS 15, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:How to build the Next JS tutorial. No. We are doing a Family Feud game show. We're producing a Family Feud game show. It's gonna have a bunch of people you recognize from online, from open source, and a bunch of things like that.
Speaker 2:Can you
Speaker 1:name some people? Yeah. We have For my sake.
Speaker 2:I mean
Speaker 1:I don't remember who's playing.
Speaker 2:Okay. We've got Tanner Linsley
Speaker 1:Oh, nice.
Speaker 2:Of TanStack.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:He's coming. We've got Kentsy Dodds. Oh, Kent's here? Yeah. I had no idea.
Speaker 2:Wow. Okay. Let's actually just go to the list.
Speaker 1:Let's just go to the list because I don't know who we're about to get ready to see. This is awesome. Now, these people coming for the there's a conference.
Speaker 2:They're all flying in just for this one. Just for us, they're all all flying in here.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There is a there is a tech conference that is happening in New York or there is a tech conference. Yeah. Is what day is that?
Speaker 2:It's on Monday and Wednesday. Like, it's they're skipping a day in the middle.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay. No. It's complicated. There's a conference called JS Nation on Monday. Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:Then there's a conference called React Summit on Tuesday, and then there's a third day affiliated.
Speaker 1:They're not related to each other?
Speaker 2:They're not, but then on the kind of coordinating, I can't really tell. And on the third day, there is another JS Nation day. I don't know. It's very confusing. The schedule's really confusing.
Speaker 2:We're not actually going to any of it.
Speaker 1:Remember how confusing the React Miami and that other thing going on was?
Speaker 2:What was that? I think about that all the time.
Speaker 1:I get emails still. Really? What was the name of it?
Speaker 2:I can't even remember. Emerge. Emerge America. Right here. Okay.
Speaker 2:So Tanner, Ken Wheeler, although Ken Wheeler. Might have a work conflict, so we're not a 100% sure. Wes Boss is coming. Scott Tolinsky is coming. We got Ben from Krizam,
Speaker 1:who
Speaker 2:is famous for his micro services video. Another guy he works with named Shiva. Carson Gross, who is a HTMX.
Speaker 1:He's coming.
Speaker 2:Yep. Really? Ken C. Dodds, who I mentioned. Chan is coming.
Speaker 2:Chantastic? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, I can't wait to see Chan. Yeah. I haven't seen him since.
Speaker 2:Annie's coming, psychotic. Everyone's really excited for Annie because no one has met her in real life and we're also not sure if she's a real person.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Has she come to anything? She's not like part of the tech No. Conference scene. She's not a developer evangelist.
Speaker 1:So why would she go to tech conferences?
Speaker 2:No. Then why do any of us go? Yeah. Madison's coming. I saw her tweet.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Michelle's coming. The is coming. Yeah. And then we have JJ who's from Vercel.
Speaker 2:He works in Next. Js. Jimmy White who is the engineering manager for Next. Js. And we have Low Level.
Speaker 2:He's coming.
Speaker 1:I knew Low Level was coming. Oh, really? I just happened to be DMing him about unrelated things. And he was like, between me and you. So it may have been secret?
Speaker 1:Was it a secret he's coming?
Speaker 2:Not to me, obviously. Yeah. Different levels of information. Yeah. And they're surprises for me for this event.
Speaker 2:That's crazy. And I planned the event?
Speaker 1:Wow. Was it like kinda low key that he
Speaker 2:was I don't think we've announced anyone really. Oh, right. Just Krizan.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, Krizan because we tweeted that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Good job. And then the last person is Bash.
Speaker 1:Bash, you got a new Basher's comment. She's coming out Monday. Oh, she can be a contestant? Yep. You were just naming contestants?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Just contestants.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, and there's like, yeah, 300 people on top of this. Oh, and here's the best part. After the event, I really hope it goes well because it's gonna be a bummer if we're like, didn't go really well. Whether it goes well or not, we have an after party that we've invited around 70 to 80 people to.
Speaker 1:Wait. Who are those people?
Speaker 2:It's we listed and then we there's other people that we know in New York.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:And there's people that are coming to the event that aren't participants. So there's like 70 people or so we're going to this place. It's actually around the corner. It's like a block
Speaker 1:around So 70 people that will probably know or there's a lot of people I won't know?
Speaker 2:I think you'll know everyone. I don't think there's anyone. 70 people? Let me Well, Liz made a list.
Speaker 1:Let me let me call
Speaker 2:out who.
Speaker 1:By the way, shout out Liz, MVP Yeah. Of this whole thing. I know. She's been on top of it. The messages she'll send are so like organized and like everybody's action items and like adding us all.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's amazing. I feel like such a jerk for being so checked out.
Speaker 2:No. I mean, this is this is like she she genuinely enjoys planning events and she's particularly good at it. It's been a Very good at it. Good situation.
Speaker 1:Your shirt and my pants are the same color.
Speaker 2:My pants and your pants are the same color. I'm wearing all green.
Speaker 1:What? Your shirt and
Speaker 2:your pants match? I always wear it.
Speaker 1:Is that okay?
Speaker 2:Somehow I always end up wearing this exact outfit when I fly because it's like very comfy.
Speaker 1:We talked about this.
Speaker 2:I wear
Speaker 1:the same outfit.
Speaker 2:And I also have I don't even wear this. I have a jacket that's also this color. So I could have been like
Speaker 1:Is that not like against I'm not like the most fashion forward person?
Speaker 2:It's one of those things where like, yes, it's wrong, but if you do it with attention, it becomes right again.
Speaker 1:If you know the rules, you can break
Speaker 2:the rules. That's awesome. Okay. So all the people I listed plus us, which is already like 20.
Speaker 1:There's 50 more to go next.
Speaker 2:Oh, Turk is coming.
Speaker 1:To list all oh, I knew Turk was because he lives in New York.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And we invited him to the party. We invited Rich Rich Harrison. Was going AJ is gonna be here. Right.
Speaker 2:The party. Joe Tenenbaum, he's a guy
Speaker 1:Yeah. Joe.
Speaker 2:From Laravel that works. Me
Speaker 1:and Joe go way back. Is that true?
Speaker 2:No. Oh, I totally forgot. I totally forgot this. Okay. Some I'm gonna call him a kid because he's in school.
Speaker 2:Some kid he's like in in college in Waterloo in Toronto, made a bunch of arcade games in the terminal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Snake, a bunch of stuff. Like this. And I was like, this is amazing. We should host this at arcade.terminal.shop. And Are we
Speaker 1:gonna do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so I I messaged him like, hey. Like, can we just, like, can we just have your project? Yeah. And in exchange, I was like, we'll fly you to New York and you'll come hang out with us.
Speaker 2:Fair trade. Yeah. On Monday. And then so he's gonna come help us out, hang out with us, come to the after party. So hopefully put
Speaker 1:it all on target.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then we'll have like a give we'll have a good giveaway for the highest score or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Jay, my from ST, he's coming and his girlfriend's also coming. Nice. We invited Maher and Yousef, they're they're coffee
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Partners. Yousef's brother. Chris from Twitch, Chris Griffin.
Speaker 1:Oh. Does he live in New York?
Speaker 2:I don't think so, but I saw Oh, that's fine. I saw him on our list, so I added the thing. Nice. And there's a few others. But anyway, point is it's Oh, lot people that we know.
Speaker 1:Like, I'm glad Low Level and Chris will be here. People I didn't get to see because I didn't go to touchcon like Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. There's some people I haven't met here also.
Speaker 1:It's a bummer to not go and then Yeah. Get to see those people. That's great.
Speaker 2:So that's what we're on Monday. But the next two days, we're actually building a lot of the stuff we need for Monday. So we better hopefully
Speaker 1:Yeah. Maybe let's double dip here. Let's we get to say what's on this podcast. And I say we're gonna talk through what we need to build tomorrow. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then Saturday. Okay. Or Saturday and Sunday.
Speaker 2:There's not that much but
Speaker 1:because they Tige and Prime are building stuff. Yep. And we need to build stuff. Can we just hit real high level of what we need to build? Yeah.
Speaker 1:So this is coming out on Monday, but it's coming out Monday. This episode come out before the thing. Probably. But they'll know what it is because we'll see
Speaker 2:Yeah. We will be it's not it won't be secret at that point. Yeah. So there's we we basically have a few components. I'm about to talk about the big problem that we haven't solved.
Speaker 1:Alright.
Speaker 2:So we have the scoreboard, which needs to go on the screen. That's gonna be a web app.
Speaker 1:You said Family Feud.
Speaker 2:Right? Yes. Family Feud. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I said that. So I built like the control plane for it. So there's like a web socket server. When you say control
Speaker 1:plane, that sounds so official and I feel like I should know what that means.
Speaker 2:What does that mean? I gotta be honest. That's the first time I use word. Oh, really? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm using it for Family Feud Evolvings.
Speaker 1:It just sounds like this official like technology term like it's in the design patterns book or something. I don't know what it means. The design pattern of control planes
Speaker 2:states that. I don't know what the why the word plane is in there. It's just a control panel or like
Speaker 1:Is it like an API? What do you mean?
Speaker 2:I guess it's like this. Okay. Point is there is a system that this a back end system over WebSocket will connect to. We can send events to the system and there's like a state machine that like tracks the state of the game. Okay.
Speaker 2:And it'll sync that state to the scoreboard and we can render stuff off of
Speaker 1:it. Okay.
Speaker 2:So we can send an event like reveal answer and then it'll like transit that event of course, so I can like play the ding noise, but then it'll also update the state with the answer that's revealed. Okay. So it's like a nice system to do that kind of thing, and then we have to build the UI that wires up.
Speaker 1:Have already sourced the ding noise?
Speaker 2:Yes. Sound effects are I searched Family Feud sound effects and somebody Was it an actual one? Somebody made a sound board.
Speaker 1:Because it's like an iconic Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. No. We got the actual one. Prime and Teeth are gonna build a system that pulls the audience, gets thousands of answers, then uses AI to categorize them into, like, you know, six or seven for the for the round.
Speaker 1:What could go wrong? I know.
Speaker 2:So and we're gonna do this all this weekend and then it's gonna run live.
Speaker 1:So Oh, jeez. This is like the worst live demo ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Don't worry. I I have secret backups of everything. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But we get to build they're not building the UI.
Speaker 2:They are building the UI.
Speaker 1:The the scoreboard?
Speaker 2:No. Not the scoreboard. They're building the UI for the the survey answers which is just
Speaker 1:survey answers, that's gonna be participants in the crowd and they're gonna be on their phones Yeah. On a native app
Speaker 2:or a web app? It's a web app. Yeah. Okay. And people at home too.
Speaker 2:Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, and that's why you said thousands. Anyone watching Yeah. On Twitch can also Yep.
Speaker 2:Yep. And we'll get we'll get that. And that's what we have to build. But you know, here is the
Speaker 1:Sorry. Are we having David design that part too since everyone's gonna be downloading it and using it? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think if we have time we should do that. But obviously, scoreboard is a priority. Yeah. But here's the thing we haven't figured out. Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:The big problem.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Buzzers.
Speaker 1:Like physical buzzers? Yeah. That's a physical problem. We don't solve physical problems.
Speaker 2:No. No. Listen. So we we I don't think we brought them. We actually have buzzers at our house that we bought, but the issue is they're not they just like make their own noise.
Speaker 2:I want a buzzer
Speaker 1:gotta go
Speaker 2:through sends over Bluetooth to something. And and this exists on Amazon, and maybe we can same day ship it over the next two days. But again, in the physical theater, like, is is it gonna reach the laptop it needs to reach? So we gotta like figure out something there.
Speaker 1:So okay. My mind first question goes to what kind of buzzer do these on the actual game? Because now that I know we have the actual sound, is it like the little hand clicky one or is it like a
Speaker 2:No. No. No. It's a thing that
Speaker 1:you smash. Big button. Yeah. And each contestant has their own button? Ideally?
Speaker 2:No. No. No. So the button only there's like at the beginning of each round, there's one face off in the center. So, there's only two buttons to get in.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. Yeah. So, there's two buttons and they're in one spot in the center. So, there's just two buzzers. Yeah.
Speaker 1:This seems like a solvable problem.
Speaker 2:But what but like
Speaker 1:It needs but it also needs to make a noise for in the venue.
Speaker 2:That'll happen because it'll go it'll it'll go over the event will go into our event system, come back down to the thing that's the scoreboard, that's displaying the scoreboard and that and that web app will play the noise.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's playing on the projector. Like that web app is gonna play noise in the venue too?
Speaker 2:Yep. Exactly.
Speaker 1:So buzzers will play in the venue.
Speaker 2:Yep. And that audio will go to everyone streaming at home too.
Speaker 1:Real life is hard. I know. Events are hard.
Speaker 2:So I'm gonna try to see if we can order like a Bluetooth buzzer or even just like a USB buzzer and we can like connect it to a laptop and just have
Speaker 1:a laptop on the podium. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And that laptop can send the events over. But yeah, I'm just like, I need like the buzzers we we got were just like battery powered buzzers.
Speaker 1:So they make those like Internet of Things buttons that can like hook up to if this then that. Oh, true. But those would have like the physical hardware connect to WiFi or whatever. You need like a WiFi connected button?
Speaker 2:That's Oh, that's that's so true. We can just You get a WiFi connected button. Okay. Yeah. That's definitely solved.
Speaker 2:We can go to Best Buy and get something from there.
Speaker 1:But then we need to like make it look like a big buzzer. I don't know. Maybe getting into stuff I don't wanna think about.
Speaker 2:Okay. So that's like our big
Speaker 1:That's big problem. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's that's basically what we're building.
Speaker 1:And who's hosting? It's Prime and Teej that are hosting?
Speaker 2:We'll have three rounds. We're gonna have the first round with two teams of guests. Second round, two teams of guests. Brian and TJ are gonna cohost each round. The third round, we're gonna randomly pick from the audience five people.
Speaker 2:Oh. And if we can do this in a fun way through the little thing, it's like everyone goes to a screen and then it like lights up saying
Speaker 1:Like golden tickets?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I wanna golden tickets. So that would be fun.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:And it's gonna be the terminal team, the five of us against five random audience members.
Speaker 1:Nice. And whoever gets picked
Speaker 2:will get invited to our after party again. I don't know if they're gonna be able to to go, but it's a nice gesture.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's cool. So the team that plays the random audience members get to come to the after party. Yeah. You guys really thought through all this stuff. I know.
Speaker 1:I'm very impressed.
Speaker 2:We had a lot of time. Like we actually Yeah.
Speaker 1:Plans for a while. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, wait. We forgot. In the middle of the rounds, we're gonna air two commercials. Is that I didn't notice too.
Speaker 2:I just Well, Sentry paid us. Sentry So this this whole event is sponsored by a few sponsors. Sentry is our biggest Sentry. Sentry. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I heard it like c e n t and I was thinking like SentryLink. I was like, no way we got the old school ISP to sponsor this. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:No. Century is our biggest sponsor. You know, we got here's the craziest part. Our next three sponsors are all OCaml related.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. I shouldn't laugh. They're sponsors. Thank you
Speaker 2:for your support. Actually, one of them hasn't paid us yet, so they might end up getting the sponsorship. Let's put
Speaker 1:some public pressure on it. Call them. Name them.
Speaker 2:So we have three OCaml related companies that have MTJ
Speaker 1:I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Stop it. There are companies.
Speaker 1:There are three OCaml related companies. Yeah. There are three
Speaker 2:OCaml related companies. Well, one's big, HRFs. You probably Yeah.
Speaker 1:They just use OCaml?
Speaker 2:Yeah. They use OCaml. The other one is like an OCaml company. Like they like either consult OCaml stuff or like they do I don't know. And then the third one's actually an individual that is working on OCaml stuff.
Speaker 2:And just wanted to sponsor? Yeah. So tomorrow everything that TJ and Prime are gonna be building They're gonna be building it in OCaml. Wait a minute. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Hold up. So okay. Now I need to actually understand what OCaml is. It's a language. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Does it have a runtime? Does it compile down to
Speaker 2:It's very similar to Go. It's like
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:It fits fits fits the same spot as Go except it's like a nice functional language.
Speaker 1:Fit into a web app.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's been a lot of work to let you write. There's this I think one of our sponsors actually worked on this. There's like a OCaml to React. Like OCaml to like React pipeline.
Speaker 2:Okay. So they're gonna build it in that. And again, our UI is super simple where it's not really
Speaker 1:Yeah. So they're building the front end in OCaml?
Speaker 2:Yeah. But there's also gonna be a back end system to like receive the answers and like process them with AIs. And
Speaker 1:trying to help style that would be in JavaScript?
Speaker 2:No. It's gonna be in OCaml too.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So they just gotta give me a container I can deploy and then and that's what it'll be the back end for that.
Speaker 1:Okay. So it's actually a React app in the browser authored in OCaml.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't know if I it's a what TJ was showing me was React. I think this process is just OCaml to JavaScript. Okay. But there's but also the the guy that made React then made Rescript.
Speaker 2:I don't if you're familiar with that. Rescript. So Rescript is a compiled to JavaScript type solution like TypeScript. When you say
Speaker 1:the guy who made React. Jordan Block. Okay. I was gonna say it was like Facebook. Right?
Speaker 1:So the employee Jordan
Speaker 2:Yeah. At Who famously was He's not not considered? He's he was like not in the React documentary.
Speaker 1:What? Why?
Speaker 2:He's crazy private. He's one of those people that's just very Yeah. Very private.
Speaker 1:But he's the one that actually did it as a side project or whatever. Is that the story at Facebook?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And then they mentioned him a lot in the documentary
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But he just isn't literally in it.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Oh, I can picture his avatar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2:So he made then went on to work on Rescript, which is it's not literally OCaml, but it's very close to OCaml. Mhmm. But it's its own language.
Speaker 1:So like f sharp.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Similar. I mean, you're right. Yeah. I know some things.
Speaker 2:You know some stuff. Research is really cool. Unfortunately, it never like took off and there's been like weird stuff with it where the language kinda got forked and it's in this weird spot. But point being that there's like this whole history of bringing OCaml style stuff to front end. There's a bunch of tooling around it.
Speaker 2:Like, the the I think the one that TJ is using is not this, but there's like I know of at least like three projects in this category. So everything this weekend that they're building on stream is gonna be
Speaker 1:In OCaml. OCaml. As sponsors, the OCaml companies.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's just like Wild. 2024, who knew? Who would spend marketing dollars on this random ass event we're doing? The answer is, oh, Campbell.
Speaker 2:It's like you you know what you would expect? Expect Clerk. You expect this whole thing. There's a Clerk logos up the ass.
Speaker 1:Why is Clerk not sponsored at terminal?
Speaker 2:You know what's so you know, if we were so we're working on this OpenAuth JS thing, and we were doing some research about some other libraries
Speaker 1:stuff. Has the sponsor. Sorry.
Speaker 2:No. That's not why. Okay. And then we found this library. Oh, this looks really cool.
Speaker 2:And we scrolled down it's on GitHub. We scrolled down, and the first thing in the read me is a big ass Clerk logo. So we're like, wait, like Clerk makes this library? But this seems like really competitive. Like, why would they waste time on this thing?
Speaker 2:But no, they don't make the library. They just sponsor
Speaker 1:They sponsor the library. And it's an alternative?
Speaker 2:To be like, oh, we support authentication If you wanna roll your own. Yeah. But like, it's the first it's a it's a full length width. Sorry. Full width of the read me and it's like it's all you see and you're just like what the yeah.
Speaker 2:Anyway. So we're like, I guess we could get them to sponsor open off.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:But like at some point we'll do we'll go pitch Clerk something, and it's gonna be, like, a 100 k. I I see what you guys spend. Like, this is gonna be a
Speaker 1:100 k for you guys. Oh, that's funny. I mean, they do spend. That's the thing about Clerk.
Speaker 2:I know. We all know about Clerk. Yeah. We'll do and we'll do well for them. It'll be one of their most successful things.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think
Speaker 1:so. I mean, someone at Clerk is listening right now, and they're like, not sponsor those assholes. I love you Jeff.
Speaker 2:Who's Jeff? Oh oh, Jeff from Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We go way back. You keep
Speaker 2:saying this about people. Like, do you actually go way back? Is it was way back literally like React Miami? Yeah. Which was less than a year ago
Speaker 1:I think I've actually been like, that was less than what?
Speaker 2:That React Miami was less than a year ago.
Speaker 1:Well, That's not surprising. Is that surprising?
Speaker 2:Doesn't it feel like so long ago? No. It doesn't?
Speaker 1:Oh, no. I haven't had any significant events in my life. You must have had a lot of memorable things happen.
Speaker 2:No. Was just Did
Speaker 1:talk about these?
Speaker 2:Yeah. But it was just other terminal events. It was like Dallas and this and
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, it seems like what was it? Six months ago? I guess six months.
Speaker 2:March, April, May, June, July, August, September. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Six Something like that?
Speaker 2:Seven months. To me it feels like a different era.
Speaker 1:I mean, yes and no. I guess like my like being connected to anyone online has been like three, two, three years. So like, I don't know. That's not very long time. Everything feels like Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's pretty recent.
Speaker 2:Okay. I mean, you're right. It is literally not that long ago. But to me it Maybe feels like
Speaker 1:you got a lot going on. What you got what you got going on?
Speaker 2:Just this. Just a lot of life, terminal. Terminal stuff. Yeah. Anyway, so that's what we're doing.
Speaker 2:That's what you have to do. Today. If you're listening to this podcast, it's gonna be today. On a day where we've run out of time. So hopefully we've we've done everything.
Speaker 1:Hopefully we've written all the camels. Hand me on camels.
Speaker 2:Written ridden all the camels.
Speaker 1:Oh. It's just funny when you learn of a new language or like I've heard Heath talk about OCaml a million times. And I've probably seen him write it on stream. But like if you've never really like gone to the read me and like started down the journey, you don't even know what it is. Like you don't know if it's like, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Like Yeah. Is this a thing that I can run-in like a lambda function or something? I don't know. There's not like an OCaml runtime. So is it just compiled down?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Is.
Speaker 1:It's like there's those
Speaker 2:there's All different a last mile question. Yeah. Yeah. How do you actually use this thing? Well, you were saying about OCaml companies.
Speaker 2:There's an extremely famous Ocaml company, James Street.
Speaker 1:Okay. I gotta say, I don't know who James Street is.
Speaker 2:Okay. I'll tell you.
Speaker 1:And I know it's like really cool because I know when Tiege got to go there, was like a huge deal. But I don't know. I don't have the context. Like he spoke there at Jane Street.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And when he said that, I didn't know if it's a college,
Speaker 2:if it's a business.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it is. So please tell me, what is Jane?
Speaker 2:Jane Street is just a hedge fund. It's just a it's it's just another financial company like I mean, we know a bunch of people that work at equivalents to Jane Street.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But the weird quirk about Jane Street is like, they went really hard in on OCaml, which is so random.
Speaker 1:That's so random. They must have I mean, they only do things for competitive advantage. Right? Hedge funds? Hedge funds?
Speaker 2:Or no? Yes and no. It's like It's also mutual. Whatever story you want. Like, if you talk to them, yes, they have a really great story about how this is critical to their business success.
Speaker 2:And I'm sure that's true to some degree, but I feel like there's also hedge funds that do the exact same thing as them that don't use Ocaml. So like, it's like for those people, it was the right choice, and they're really happy with it. Yeah. That's what motivated them. Anyway, the reason they come up a lot is because for one I I guess, like, maybe they do this on purpose.
Speaker 2:Hedge funds and companies and finance in general are really, really private. They're very private about, like, anything you think is, like, so trivial, like, they'll be, like, really cagey about. Mhmm. But Jane Street, for some reason, like, stuff, like, quote unquote leaks all the time. Like, there was this thing that was going viral because they were looking for an intern, and the starting salary was 250 k.
Speaker 1:The the starting salary was 250 k?
Speaker 2:For an intern.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For interns. Wow. Internship. I was like, this is insane.
Speaker 1:Is crazy.
Speaker 2:So you're
Speaker 1:a development intern?
Speaker 2:Yep. Okay. And I was like going nuts about it. And it's true. It's a crazy amount.
Speaker 2:For an internship.
Speaker 1:Remote? Sorry. That's not my question.
Speaker 2:No. They're all in person. Oh. Yeah. And in New York?
Speaker 2:Yep. And they actually their office was right next to my old apartment. I would see them all the time. We're right
Speaker 1:next to your old apartment. No. No. Not right next Your old to workplace.
Speaker 2:We're next to my old workplace. Yes. But like finance is crazy. Like that's that's like very normal in that space, and the ceilings are, like, insane. But, like, for some reason, their stuff I think just because, like, they use OCaml and there's, this, like Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Mystery around them.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, that's what and we try to get them to sponsor us, and we got a funny response. We were like, we have a company policy that we don't do sponsorships anymore because we did one and it went really badly, but we can't tell you what happened. But maybe I can tell you in person. So I'm just like, what the fuck happened?
Speaker 1:That's so interesting.
Speaker 2:But if they could sponsor us, yeah, we asked them to, like, 100 k. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Headphones have money. It's funny. Our YouTube got out of sync. I think it missed an episode or two cause I don't remember why actually. For some reason, it's like a different person puts our videos on YouTube versus the podcast platforms.
Speaker 1:And there's like, if you look at the numbers on the podcast on YouTube, there's like two or three that are missing and one came a week early. So it's just like totally different experience if you listen to us on YouTube. Totally It's on Spotify like you're getting very different episodes.
Speaker 2:I think they might even get more listens on YouTube.
Speaker 1:Probably. Maybe. Crazy. I don't think we do. We get I think we get like a thousand views on a podcast episode on YouTube, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I guess that's probably not like a
Speaker 1:I wonder Does transistor count YouTube? Now we're getting into really
Speaker 2:stupid stuff. No. The most meta thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Podcasts.
Speaker 2:I'm excited for dinner. Tonight? Yeah. Yeah. Booked a nice Korean barbecue place as their tradition.
Speaker 2:Love.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's become the tradition. Korean barbecue, my favorite. They always have white rice with these guys for a white guy
Speaker 2:like me. That's beer. That's beer
Speaker 1:in here. White rice. That's what I call my my NeoVim config, white rice. This is me ricing as a white person. That's kinda confusing
Speaker 2:because that makes me think it's gonna be in light mode, but it's not.
Speaker 1:No. It's all dark mode.
Speaker 2:Dark rice, brown
Speaker 1:rice. That's It's at 08:00, which is totally normal to have dinner at 08:00.
Speaker 2:Did you see my tweet that I had dinner I had dinner reservation the other day at 11PM. I did see that. I'm so fucking cool. I saw
Speaker 1:it. I 11PM. That's insane.
Speaker 2:And you know where it was? It was at the Korean barbecue place that we went to in Oh, the one in Miami. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Was a nice place.
Speaker 2:It's been every time
Speaker 1:You were there at, eleven that
Speaker 2:night. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Every time
Speaker 2:I go there, the waiters are, have you
Speaker 1:been here before?
Speaker 2:I'm like, have been here so many With like every person I know. Every person I know in my life, I have taken them here.
Speaker 1:Like, remember me. 11PM. That's just you're just trying to make a statement at that point. There's no reason to eat at 11PM unless you just wanna be cool.
Speaker 2:Right? Well, what happened was no. I was I was just really craving. After eating steak for two months straight, two two meals a day.
Speaker 1:I wanna hear more about that.
Speaker 2:I was just craving more steak. I was like, because we have to go here today and the only slot they have is left.
Speaker 1:Can can we talk about the steak thing? So you've been eating I heard you say this. You've been eating exclusively steak. Like, you don't have like cereal for breakfast? Nope.
Speaker 1:Like, all you eat
Speaker 2:Well, it's is steak. There there's It's not like It's not religious. So there's Like during the weekdays, I pretty much do groceries for enough for two steak meals for every single day for five to six days.
Speaker 1:So you eat stuff with the steak?
Speaker 2:I will have mixed vegetables. Okay. But then and then on the weekends, you know, we might go out, we might do other things. Yeah. I'm not like just sticking to it that crazy, but so I was just like, I wanna try this.
Speaker 2:I wanna see how I feel. Yeah. I feel bad?
Speaker 1:So it's more about the nutrition side than it is like, you just really like steak and you
Speaker 2:wanna eat it. Well, I also think it's one of the most delicious things to eat Yeah. Especially if you get really good at cooking it, which I have gotten
Speaker 1:That's the other thing, you're trying to practice Yeah. Making it better. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I've I've like I've like narrowed down my style and I'm like hitting like some crazy levels of steak quality now.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:To the point where when we were at that Korean barbecue place, was like, this is good, but some of these things are actually worse than some of the stuff that I've made, which I'm like, that's pretty cool to get to.
Speaker 1:Where do you get your steak? You said sourcing, you said that earlier. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's the hard part. So I have two sources. One is this Argentinian farm that someone in the You would. In the this isn't something that I did. Somebody Have you visited this farm in Argentina?
Speaker 2:No. No. No. Somebody in like the sixties, there was like a wave of migration from Cuba to The US. Maybe there was maybe people came from Argentina.
Speaker 2:I'm not exactly sure. But anyway, Graziano. The Graziano family arrived
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:In Miami with nothing but 2 pennies to rub together or without even 2 pennies to rub together. And they set up this business that was a restaurant slash market that was a steakhouse, and they set up a supply chain from Argentinian farms. Interesting. And Argentina is known for really good cattle.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah. I I feel like is there like are there Argentina steak houses? Yes. Is that a thing?
Speaker 2:Well, the Australian steak house will sound very similar to Argentina.
Speaker 1:No. I think I've seen Argentina. Okay. Yeah. Argentinian.
Speaker 1:Now I'm adding myself Yes. That I've not actually seen it.
Speaker 2:So they set up this business and it's doing really well in Miami. They have so many locations now. It's been around for, like, fifty or sixty years. So they set up this pipeline, and what's great is they have a market. So you just go to the market and get really good steak from Argentina for, like, not that expensive.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So that's one source.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:The thing so I've also gone to beef grading. Here's here's what's here's what's crazy to me. Okay?
Speaker 1:You think What's the subreddit? I gotta know.
Speaker 2:No subreddit.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. I mean, I I'm not I'm I think everything has a subreddit.
Speaker 2:The subreddit isn't good enough. Oh, not even
Speaker 1:good old enough. School forums.
Speaker 2:So we're like, okay. There's grades of beef. Obviously, there's grades Beef of that makes total sense,
Speaker 1:you know.
Speaker 2:Choice, like, select a choice prime, etcetera. Learn all that stuff. Mhmm. But then you start thinking about it, you're like, wait. This is a government agency.
Speaker 2:It says USDA. What? There's we literally established a government agency to be like
Speaker 1:It's a great
Speaker 2:That steak is good. That steak is better.
Speaker 1:I know. What is it based
Speaker 2:on? It's very simple. Like, 90% of it is based off the marbling, which is like Mhmm. How much intramuscular fat is there.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And you can visually see like You want more or less? So prime is the most amount of intramuscular fat for American cattle and it that's the best. If you if you find prime cuts, you should buy it, especially if it's at a good price.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:This Argentinian place I go to, if I want rib eyes again, got into like the different cuts and everything.
Speaker 1:And I wanna get into that too. Yes.
Speaker 2:So I
Speaker 1:had that question.
Speaker 2:The rib eyes are like the most traditionally popular. Let me imagine a steak from a steak house, you're probably imagining a rib eye. I think it's a little overrated because it's just the most popular, but it is it is quite good. The Argentinian place does not do prime rib eye and they save that for the restaurant. Oh.
Speaker 2:So their prime cuts are a little bit like
Speaker 1:prime rib. That's what prime rib is. It's a prime grade rib eye?
Speaker 2:No. Prime prime rib is a little confusing because they just call it prime rib,
Speaker 1:but you
Speaker 2:can have like prime grade prime rib or you can
Speaker 1:Oh, jeez. Yeah. Okay. Prime rib is a different cut?
Speaker 2:So I'm trying to think I think a prime rib is actually a full rib eye. Prime rib is like this giant piece and if you cut it into one inch slices, those are rib eye steaks.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:I think. I'm like Okay. I'm forgetting the exact terminology.
Speaker 1:What's your favorite cut? You know, let's just get I wanna I gotta know.
Speaker 2:Well, the rib eye is great. I think it's a great choice. And I've been doing a lot of flap steak because Argentinian place has a prime grade flap steak. And it's it's it's pretty good and the price is is great. But these last two weeks, I went to my second source, which is Wild Fork.
Speaker 2:Wild Fork is a little bit more accessible. There's probably a Wild Fork, Not not a ton of locations, but they're like all over the place
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:In the country. They source really good meat and they immediately fat flash freeze it, like, right away. So the thing with meat is the faster you freeze it, the less. Like, you put raw meat into your freezer, it's gonna destroy it. It's gonna slowly freeze it, which, like, crystallizes too much and, like, fucks up everything.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. So if you flash freeze it or blast freeze it, I think they call it, it's, a really good way to freeze and preserve the meat. And they ship it straight to their stores, and you can go and they actually deliver your house, whatever. So you can get some really good cuts there. Again, decent price.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So every week on Sunday, I will get a week's worth of of steaks. If if I do rib eyes, I'll get, like, five rib eyes and I'll cut them in half and have one half for each meal.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I've been getting crazy to It's cooking been about two I've been like my my mom visited for like ten days and she was cooking and like so I've been on and off it, but pretty much for two months, I haven't had mostly steak for
Speaker 1:everything And how what are you how are feeling?
Speaker 2:Totally normal, which is good. Like, it's not like I degraded anything. I probably need to do blood work to see like how it's impacted certain things. People that eat I don't think I'm eating enough for this to be a case, but people that eat a lot of meat to like carnivore diets, they have high iron
Speaker 1:I was gonna guess iron.
Speaker 2:Okay. So they they get too much iron in their blood. Yeah. Super simple They just donate blood. They literally donate blood.
Speaker 2:And then they It's
Speaker 1:your blood factory.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly. Like a
Speaker 1:healthy blood thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly. So if it's too high, you donate blood.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's fixed. So I feel great. The one noticeable plus thing is my knees feel like I'm like a high schooler again. Like, I'm just used to like, if I'm like squatting and I get up, it's just like Yeah. My knees aren't happy And about they pop and Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then there is still some crackling there, but there's like no more like discomfort. And I'm like, this is this is interesting. I don't if it's a 100% related, but that is the one change I've noticed. Other than that, totally normal, I asked Chad GPT. I was like, if I only eat steak, what what am I missing?
Speaker 2:Like, what I was like, what one other okay. This is how I phrased it. I was like, I'm gonna only eat steak. I'm willing to eat one other food. What should it be to balance out what I'm missing from the steak?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it
Speaker 2:said sweet potato. It says sweet potato. Here's all the things steak has. And steak is like a super food. It has almost everything you need.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then sweet potato has everything else. But I was like, don't want something high carb, but something low carb I can do. And they're like, okay, if you're willing to eat three foods total, eggs and broccoli, you got everything you need. So I literally just eat steak broccoli and those will make eggs for breakfast occasionally.
Speaker 1:So I just realized I haven't used ChatGPT in a very long time. I forgot about ChatGPT. Wow. I mean, I use AI coding assistant stuff. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't use Chateap ZM. When I say Chateap ZM and Cloud, I use Cloud a lot.
Speaker 1:Oh, like in the browser? Yeah. I just had I'm realizing I haven't like
Speaker 2:No problem.
Speaker 1:Past normal life stuff. I've only used coding assistance Really? For months. I hate using Google now. Really?
Speaker 2:I like start to Google something, just switch over. Because I'm like, if it's not gonna give me the exact answer right away, like
Speaker 1:And you feel like you there's where yeah. Where are we at in like hallucinations? That was really bad in the early LLM era?
Speaker 2:It's still about the same, but like Okay. It's fine. It's like for the looking it up.
Speaker 1:Is Claude like connected? Is it like up to date or is it
Speaker 2:No. April 2024,
Speaker 1:I think. Yeah. Yeah. I just can't believe I forgot about him. I used to use him in everyday life like
Speaker 2:That's an interesting data point.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Am I just Am I weird? I'm probably the outlier.
Speaker 2:It's still an interesting data point. If if if there's one of you, there must be more of you.
Speaker 1:We were using it for like some schooling stuff and like I definitely It was part of my my routine site in months.
Speaker 2:There's some data analytic data point in their database being like Yeah.
Speaker 1:What did
Speaker 2:we do? Lost them for
Speaker 1:Yeah. Re engage.
Speaker 2:How do you
Speaker 1:do that?
Speaker 2:You gotta ask AI. Yeah. So anyway, but the other thing I wanted to say is, I I was telling you this earlier, I've been devouring YouTube content about cooking steak. Yeah. And I've tried I found this guy, and I feel it's the type of thing that you like.
Speaker 2:There's so many myths around steak. They're like, when you cook it, don't touch it. Like, let it completely finish one side and flip to the other side after. Or like, the pan has to be really, really hot. Or like, once you're done cooking, you have to let it rest.
Speaker 2:Don't cut into it for whatever. Yeah. And he does these crazy ass science experiments to like his views are so well produced and like Yeah. You know, it's so good to like bust all these myths and figure out like he'll do like these different tests and compare different things. Just to figure out like how here's what actually happens.
Speaker 2:The most interesting thing I've learned recently, and this has had a huge impact on the way I cook, the way I understand how steak cooks is almost obviously, there's like a limit to this, but whether it's medium heat, high heat, whatever, the heat does not make it to the center of the steak faster. Whether if you put it on high heat or medium heat or even like low heat. A steak will always need ten minutes to cook on the inside to medium medium well or like medium rare rather.
Speaker 1:No matter the temperature?
Speaker 2:Yes. No matter there's obviously a limit like you're putting it in like a fucking furnace. But for most cooking temperatures It always Yeah. So here here's a mistake people make. People make it really hot to try to get that char on the outside because the outside will cook differently depending on how it's exposed or the temperature.
Speaker 2:And they'll be like, oh, nice. They got the char. They'll have to wait for the inside to reach temperature and then the outside gets burnt. Yeah. And the inside is correct.
Speaker 2:Or they're like, think it's done because the outside looks done. They'll cut into it and it'll be like way too raw. So the trick with cooking steak is my approach has been I cook it in high heat to get and now I can eyeball it to get the right level of crispiness on the outside. Mhmm. Then I go back down to low or medium heat to let it just let the inside temperature come up to the level I want.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And the outside isn't getting it really any crispier at that point. Yeah. And the second trick is I use beef tallow.
Speaker 1:What is that?
Speaker 2:It is the weirdest thing ever.
Speaker 1:Is it like the joint in between the joints or something?
Speaker 2:No. No. It's made out of that's collagen. Oh. So that's what they make the jello with or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So if you look at beef tallow, it looks like a they come in these big tubs. Mhmm. It looks like a tub of like melted plastic or like something that just does not look like it came from nature in any form. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it is like butter, like one of the oldest forms of fat that people Oh, cow. Kinda matter. It's made from
Speaker 1:It's like lard.
Speaker 2:It's like lard. But it's like lard that comes from a cow. But it has this crazy weird like kinda almost alien consistency. Liz has been putting it on her face for a very long time. People it's like really good for skin care.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But now I've been putting it into my pan.
Speaker 1:Like that's like instead of butter.
Speaker 2:Instead of butter oil.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So
Speaker 2:just a very little amount and that gives it a really nice sear and just makes your steak taste like super super good.
Speaker 1:Just kinda accentuates the beef taste.
Speaker 2:Yeah. By adding more beefiness to it. Adds Yeah. A nice like saltiness like it's good. I've also nailed how much you need to salt it.
Speaker 2:Another weird thing, you literally cannot over salt the steak. Like it's just like so hard. You can't because everyone's salting things you're so worried you're gonna ruin it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It can take a lot of salt. Like, just go crazy. There's a whole thing with like, you salt it, then you let the salt drop the water, then you dry the water. So it's all up like that. Jeez.
Speaker 2:That precision. The last thing I wanna say is I was talking about this grading system. Again, really weird that US government is like, we need to make sure that as a people, as a government, that we are grading our beef correctly. So like I said, it's all about the intramuscular fat. Right?
Speaker 2:And prime is the highest
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:In American breeds. But there are breeds that have an insane amount of intramuscular fat. Like a crazy amount when you look at the steak and it looks white. Okay? Japanese cow, wagyu, butter, wagyu beef.
Speaker 1:Wagyu, I've
Speaker 2:heard this.
Speaker 1:So there's
Speaker 2:a breed of cattle in Japan that for whatever weird genetic reason, it has like this insane amount of fat in its in its just in its body. Yeah. And these steaks are crazy expensive. They produce so little of it and it's probably like, I would say it's a 10 x price difference. Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:But if you try to eat it because people are like, Wagyu, good. Let me get a Wagyu steak. You literally cannot eat more than like two bites. Oh. Like, it is It's just so damn.
Speaker 2:It's so rich. It's great as like an appetizer have like two pieces trying to Yeah. This like exotic interesting thing. But like people buy a lot of it and they're just like like, they they get sick. It is, like, really enriching.
Speaker 2:But it is very delicious if you like that, like, soft fattiness. And, obviously, that can't work on this grading scale because it's just like, you know, off the chart.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But the brilliant thing is people have brought over Wagyu cattle to The US and cross bred them with American cattle. Now a little bit. Yes. Intramuscular fat.
Speaker 2:Yes. There's now American Wagyu and Australian Wagyu. And that's also off the chart, but it's like in a more reasonable place and you're guaranteed to get like like every single Wagyu cattle is like primer plus.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because it's toned down from this crazy amount. Yeah. But it's still way more than a prime. Yep.
Speaker 2:And the cost there is maybe like two to three x of a normal prime mistake.
Speaker 1:You're telling me there's not a single subreddit you've been perusing for any of this information.
Speaker 2:So I I will end up on subreddits through like specific questions I've Yeah. Googled. But again, I I just go to Claude or stuff to ask these questions.
Speaker 1:Wait. Do you hang out on any subreddits? This is a question No. I can't believe we've never talked about this. I don't think we've heard.
Speaker 2:I used to use Reddit like years and years and years and years ago. Maybe when I'm even before I was an adult. Mhmm. But I just don't
Speaker 1:know. Well, you know like I end up on Reddit, but I think what you said like from Google. I ask a specific question on Google. Reddit answers are usually pretty good for stuff like that because it's a lot of knowledgeable people. But every time you end up in Reddit from some Google search, you get this sense that there's like people that just live on that thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. And they're like the people, not even the moderators, just like the people who have all the knowledge about this thing. Yep. And like, what is it like Kind of the
Speaker 2:world expert.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And they have like this community of people that they probably hang out with on Reddit every day.
Speaker 2:That's us.
Speaker 1:Is that interesting?
Speaker 2:That's literally us, just not on Reddit.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah. That's what's weird to me though. It's like, I can't imagine that being Reddit as opposed to like Twitter. Twitter or Discord or whatever feels very natural to me and it just seems so foreign to imagine Reddit being the place. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I send a lot of messages and read a lot of messages and whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's little old school. It's like forum.
Speaker 1:It's old school.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's more of a forum thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So I will say the stake world of Reddit, I haven't found to be that good. Think I'm I'm gonna be
Speaker 1:a little honest.
Speaker 2:I'm be a little honest and maybe a little snobby here.
Speaker 1:Let's do it.
Speaker 2:This is like an expensive hobby,
Speaker 1:I would You're calling Reddit a land of the poors.
Speaker 2:It's I'm just saying it's like you can there's like an angle to this because like any any state can be a good state. So they tend to focus in a specific zone of like practical like Yeah. You know, And I just find like it's it's a little too narrow. So I wanted like a wider wider experience.
Speaker 1:You just backed off from calling reddit people, poor people. Why? Why did you you went so far and then you just pulled it off. No. Because you said because I said Did I pull a cock?
Speaker 1:I mean, you didn't really call out that you were basically saying you have expensive taste.
Speaker 2:Oh, wait. Here's the thing. Right? Like the problem is someone brings up Wagyu. Right?
Speaker 2:The immediate comment is, it's a scam. I don't know why people pay so much for this.
Speaker 1:It's like read it.
Speaker 2:And it's just like
Speaker 1:You know, sometimes.
Speaker 2:So it's like they are right that the underlying sentiment is like, yeah, buying a Wagyu steak makes no sense. Mhmm. But I'm still very interested in Wagyu and like learning all about that and like Yeah. All this stuff. And it's just like they like shut down because they see this obvious reply of being like, Wagyu's not worth it.
Speaker 2:I prefer like, I I really understand this stuff so I prefer the thing not for tourists. Yeah. There's a little bit too much like I'm trying
Speaker 1:to prove
Speaker 2:something about my identity on Reddit.
Speaker 1:Earlier in the car on the way over to Manhattan from the airport, what was it? Who asked like where's the first place you would go in New York? Did Liz ask you that? If it was your first time in New York, where's first place you would say And I just so badly wanted to be like, the Empire State Building.
Speaker 2:Oh, we we said Times Square.
Speaker 1:Oh, really? Is that that's not too touristy for you?
Speaker 2:No. No. We the You're saying
Speaker 1:to take somebody
Speaker 2:Ask someone that never didn't know about New York. Oh. Would I Yeah. Or like Yeah. Just go to the tourist That's
Speaker 1:what you're saying. Okay. But that's so your personality is to like not do touristy things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I generally don't do touristy things. But I just find them I just hate being around crowds of people that are like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a whole thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I hate feeling like I'm a guy on vacation and bringing around people with better guys on vacation.
Speaker 1:No. I am sobby about that too. Like there's a Legionnaire. I think I've talked about the like budget airline that flies out of Springfield. Yeah.
Speaker 1:They don't have first class and it's like everybody's in Hawaiian shirts and it's like, you know, inflatable pool toys are ready to go to the beach and like that's every flight. So if you go on a work trip on a Legion flight, you're just I got my laptop and I'm doing work and dad's throwing whatever across the point. Yeah. It's a party bus. So you might wonder why I would wanna sit and listen to you talk about steak for fifteen minutes when I'm a vegan of twelve years.
Speaker 1:And I find it very fascinating anytime somebody's really into something.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And there's just it's like every single thing in the world, there are lots of people into that thing. I just love that. I think that's what I like about Reddit. I don't get on Reddit, but I like the idea that there's subreddits Yeah. For everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Every time I learn of a new subreddit, it's like, of course, there's a subreddit for that. There's people who are moderators of a subreddit for that thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've never thought about that thing for more than five seconds.
Speaker 2:You know
Speaker 1:what mean? Yeah. I just love that.
Speaker 2:It's it's also fun to get hooked on something like It's it's so fun. And now that like YouTube, I'm not a big I just historically haven't been a big YouTube person, but I wanted to like understand it better and like understand like, okay, here's what like well produced stuff on YouTube looks like. But I never had a thing that I could like actually direct on. Now I have this and I've been watching like a ton of YouTube.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I've actually been watching a ton of YouTube too. Not related
Speaker 2:to that.
Speaker 1:But I know I I think I've been in the same space as you of like seeing the algorithm figure you out and just Yeah. Feed you stuff that you want and Yeah. Mine's all like, oh, my Christmas lights are up. I just got a garage notification and you can see my Christmas lights.
Speaker 2:Wait, but what do you mean they're up? They just up themselves?
Speaker 1:No. A guy comes and puts them on.
Speaker 2:Okay. I'm lazy there.
Speaker 1:I don't put my own Christmas lights on. He stores them for me too. Like he does the whole neighborhood. I mean, he just comes by and like puts them up, takes them down at the end of the year, stores them, whatever. All our Reese's.
Speaker 1:It's really nice. I'll send you a picture. I've been watching YouTube to learn about my messed up brain. Complex trauma. You ever heard of complex trauma?
Speaker 1:No. Basically, everyone in our generation has complex trauma because boomers are the worst. Can I say things like that?
Speaker 2:But like my my parents aren't my parents maybe are like the age of boomers, but like they're
Speaker 1:not like
Speaker 2:Well, they didn't grow up in like America. Oh, yes. They would be fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You don't have conflict trauma then. If you're yeah. Probably people
Speaker 2:No. No. Do. It's just it's just coming full of comfort Have you ever heard
Speaker 1:the term?
Speaker 2:No. I I
Speaker 1:haven't heard Is this making you uncomfortable? Do you wanna talk?
Speaker 2:No. It's gonna be uncomfortable. Okay.
Speaker 1:Can we talk about mental health? No. I'm just learning all this stuff about, have you ever heard of, like, roles, like in dysfunctional families?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. The all the referrals.
Speaker 1:Man, I fit one to the t. Yeah. Everything I read about it. Is that like horoscopes though? Is it like everything you
Speaker 2:No. No. No. I think I I think what's interesting about horoscopes and these like very stereotypical things are sometimes you find yourself in a very common situation so that these horoscope like things end up describing it very accurately. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We talked about this before. Whenever I take a personality test, not just me, other people read it and they're like, this sounds like it was written about you. And I think it's just I have a very like standard well defined personality that's existed. Yeah. I think you maybe you're in a role.
Speaker 1:An archetype.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. That's very common.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's a it's a whole thing. I just could not say like I've been on YouTube a lot and I'm not a YouTube guy. Like I don't watch Yeah. YouTube that much before this.
Speaker 1:But now there's like a few different people that make videos about this stuff. Mhmm. And I've watched like everything they make. Yeah. It's very interesting.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting to feel like I'm 38 and I'm learning things I should have known when I was like
Speaker 2:You should have known when you were 20? I feel like Is there Does any 20 year old really know anything? When were 30, but you are 30, so
Speaker 1:It is interesting. I've had this thought and I haven't put it into words in my brain, but I've had this feeling of like, does anybody take advantage of their twenties? I feel like everyone says like, I wasted my twenties. Did everyone waste their twenties? I don't
Speaker 2:think I wasted my twenties.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's not wasting even if everybody kinda has the same experience in their twenties. What did you do in your twenties?
Speaker 2:Okay. Here's this really clear thing that's very clear to me in hindsight. Mhmm. I felt my brain, like, develop. I I can, like, physically feel it develop, like, when I was, like, 26 or 27.
Speaker 2:Because when I think back to everything before then, I was, like, a crazy person. Like, clearly, like, adulthood doesn't really happen to and and this is like, biologically, this is a thing, like, whole frontal lobe thing.
Speaker 1:Like, and it's maybe different for males and females, but I know I've heard something about the male brain doesn't fully develop until it's like 20.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's it's like, I would what the hell was that dude? The way I operated and like none of it made any sense Yeah. Like looking back. And I'm like that's just what I was like.
Speaker 2:And I guess my brain developed at some point. Yeah. You know, became less crazy. But I don't think I wasted it. Like what?
Speaker 2:I spent a lot of time working, which is fine.
Speaker 1:Like Yeah. Same.
Speaker 2:You have zero responsibilities, like nothing. Like, it's a great
Speaker 1:Yeah. Guess you kinda build your foundation.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I was in New York the whole time. I had like a ton of friends, like, you know.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, now you're just bragging. You're rubbing it in because I didn't have any of those things.
Speaker 2:Guess I you wasted your twenties, Adam.
Speaker 1:I wasted my twenties. Which should I have been worked
Speaker 2:a lot. I'm not. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, what I was gonna say before you just were like, my twenties were awesome. I was the best. Before you said that, was gonna say, maybe it's just a reframing and that we all say we waste our twenties, all of us normies, because we're looking at it wrong. We we wouldn't say we wasted our our years four to 10. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't be like I wasted my teens. Like, maybe it's just like need to push back the bar and like nothing really good happens in your twenties. But you're helping me see
Speaker 2:I think it's this brain development thing. I think you Yeah. If there's like you you're like physically a different person.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think the point that like I wouldn't have had the career in my thirties to like provide the ways that I did if I hadn't had my twenties working very hard, figuring out
Speaker 2:how to
Speaker 1:be good at a thing. I guess it wasn't wasted. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's funny though because when I I say work a lot, but then I think about this all the time. I'm like, just with how much is going on in my life, like, the stuff I work on, like, I think back to how I would do these, like, crazy, like, many many hour days like fall asleep working, wake up, take the off time, working in my you know, early twenties. But what the fuck? I get more done now. What was I I put so many hours in.
Speaker 2:You're so much better now. Like I was I must have sucked. I didn't feel like I sucked. Yeah. I felt like I was doing really good.
Speaker 2:And if everyone around me seemed to confirm that. And then like everyone else seemed to be like I felt like above average compared to the stuff around me. Yeah. But like clearly, I get way more stuff done. I think I was just I was spending so much time like rewriting everything.
Speaker 2:I was like, I would do something and I technically write it have to rewrite it. Like now I never have to do that anymore.
Speaker 1:Well. Well. I still have
Speaker 2:to that. But But not
Speaker 1:as much. Maybe not as much. I have similar feelings about the whole thing. About like feeling like I didn't think I didn't get much done. Like I felt like in my twenties I was productive.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I felt like I was moving mountains. But then I can like remember stuff or I can see stuff because I've had it started for ten years now. Yeah. I can see stuff I wrote ten years
Speaker 2:ago. Oh, you can? Mine's all disappeared. I can't look at it
Speaker 1:at all. There's some things and some of it's just memory. It's not like it's still in the code base. There's some things I've done at stat news, and I have, like, employees that are still at stat news that could tell and vouch for just how awful my brain was at times. So I have that data point.
Speaker 1:Like Yeah. I can look back at some of the stupidest stuff that make would make young developers feel very good about themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, probably I I definitely have the same because clearly, like, I put so many hours in and I wasn't getting like
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I probably put in twice the number of hours I've spent now. I was not doing twice the amount of work. I'm doing more work now than I was Yeah. Then. So Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Clearly, I was being stupid.
Speaker 1:Okay. I gotta share the dumbest the dumbest of the dumb things. And this is, like, gonna be so mixed.
Speaker 2:Is that bad?
Speaker 1:It's that bad.
Speaker 2:I deleted a database last week.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna, like, blush. You deleted a database. That's, a cool, like, badge of honor. This is, like, the most twisted shit. Okay.
Speaker 1:I had this system. This was in the Status Code Base. Like, this was an actual thing in the Status Code Base. It was like the name of the directories.
Speaker 2:Why are you laughing?
Speaker 1:Is it not that remembered another thing that's almost dumb. We talked about this about the last sentence off-site, so it's fresh on my brain. There was another one that was just too weird to even talk about on the podcast, but the one I'm talking about right now is, like, there was, like, logic, like, conditions encoded in the names of the directory. Adam. Like, nested directories.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:This is so funny. Do you get why this is funny? Why? You're describing Next. Js.
Speaker 1:Oh my god. It is. It is. I mean, it's like yeah. It's the whole, like, weird, but it was like words.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was like loops and stuff. It was bizarre. Yeah. I'm You're right.
Speaker 2:I definitely did stuff, like, very creative
Speaker 1:stuff like that. Creative.
Speaker 2:That's Quite creative.
Speaker 1:Felt very creative in the moment. Yeah. They were like win directories or something. It was like when this happens, then this happens. And was like each directory had a name that like made the thing make sense.
Speaker 2:That is so wild. It was bad. What I mean, do you remember how you felt in that moment when you made that? Did you feel like you like Was it like something you did without thinking or did you feel proud of it? Because I remember feeling very proud of something.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. No. It was intentional. It was like, I'm innovating
Speaker 2:here. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Let me cook. I'm like, hang on, guys. I got us this far. It made me realize just how much, like, I mean, startups and, like, the technical side of it, the disconnect of that and the actual like product success. Like so much of it was in spite of
Speaker 2:me being this terrible The phrase in spite of I think is so important because here here's what happens. Companies have the correct product. They build the correct product Yeah. And then they and then people that work there start to list out all the reasons why they were successful. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I look at that stuff and I'm like, no. Yeah. In spite of all that dumbass shit you're listing that you're proud of
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The product was so right that it it worked anyway. But that's what you get to do. If you're successful, you get to claim Uh-huh. That any random thing you like was the reason Yeah. It all worked.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't think I'm wasting my thirties at least.
Speaker 1:I don't think
Speaker 2:But they're
Speaker 1:are we gonna say that in our forties, we're gonna be like, man, I wasted my thirties. Remember that time I I don't know. Threw an event in New York and invited 300 people. I know that horribly. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, man.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, we're
Speaker 1:an hour. Yeah. I feel like we both just were like, Did it. Did our time. Okay.
Speaker 1:And it recorded Get out of here. Alright. See you everyone. Oh yeah. We don't have a way to do it.
Speaker 1:Bye. Bye. I'm gonna look at the camera one more time. Okay.
