Vite, Docker, Hurricane Update, Board Games, and Pixar Movies
Why is Canada populated at all? Why are there people in Canada? I don't understand. Long time no talk.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Know. You skipped last week.
Speaker 1:I skipped last week.
Speaker 2:Bitch.
Speaker 1:So That's funny.
Speaker 2:We had to replace you with someone. So I wasn't here talking to myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That sounds more fun, really. I'm sure people enjoyed that. You're welcome everybody. I'll skip Not really.
Speaker 1:I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I feel like if I threaten that, people are gonna freak out. Sometimes I do just think like, is this the slow fade? Am I not gonna disappear?
Speaker 1:I'm just gonna slowly fade out of the Internet and Literally, all of my
Speaker 2:the guy that made that bingo card of our podcast. Is Oh, like
Speaker 1:Is this one of the things I said?
Speaker 2:One of the things.
Speaker 1:Let's try a new stuff. Should I leave the Internet? Let's Yeah. Let's try let's try new material. Man, I I don't wanna go back to the bingo card, but I really do need you to catch me
Speaker 2:up on lots of things.
Speaker 1:It's just one of the things I need from you in this relationship.
Speaker 2:Has anything happened? I don't know. What's new?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Maybe nothing. That's fine. That's actually great.
Speaker 2:I guess the main thing was, Beats finally announced their round, which they, like, closed a long time ago, but Veats? Didn't go public. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So how's that work? I mean, in the sense that, like, Evan is doing a lot of things. So Veat is like a company?
Speaker 2:Well, they established a new company called Void Zero and their goal is to make a unified JavaScript tool chain.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Which I think if puts them in the same category as Bunn, more or less, I think that's, 100 Okay. Almost near overlap. Like, it's a runtime.
Speaker 1:Bunn?
Speaker 2:I think Bunn is a super set in a lot of ways. Like, I think Bunn would consider even if they're not focusing on the same things right now, I think Bunn would consider everything Void Zero is doing as something they eventually wanna do. I don't think Void Zero is gonna build a JavaScript runtime. Don't think I think that's outside their scope.
Speaker 1:Okay. So so Bunn has executed really well. Are they gonna have similar business models? Or have either of them picked a business model? They've both raised money.
Speaker 2:I went on Primestream a bit, to talk about this a bit because I I was giving you this spiel real quick. So Yeah. With, a lot of these projects, these, like, yeah, open source projects that are very free and, like, fundamentally need to be open source and free, The question of like what's the business model always comes up and that's a valid question. But the point I made was, I don't if we talked about this already, but, these are venture scale companies very different than a traditional company. The example I gave was if search engines didn't exist and someone invented a search engine today, people would ask what's the business model?
Speaker 2:And the company would be like, oh, yeah, we'll give you like 10 free searches a day and then if you wanna go over that, we'll charge you $10 a month, right?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And you would probably make a lot of money doing that, especially if it's as good as Google is and there was no other search engine. But it would never be a product that every single person in the world used. Yeah. Right? Like there's natural friction with with the paid tier.
Speaker 2:And eventually someone would build a version that's not paid. And if you do build a version that's not paid and everyone in the world starts to use it, you now have this opportunity to build a, like, trillion dollar ads business, right? Which is really, really hard to imagine ahead of time. Like, it's so hard to imagine
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, if
Speaker 2:every single thing if we capped a 100% market, like, what are
Speaker 1:the business models? Like, none of
Speaker 2:us would have come up with like, Google just serves ads not on their own properties, but, like, across the whole Internet and other sites. Like, it's like a giant giant business that came out of this thing, and it feels like really random and unrelated. So with these companies, it's the question isn't really what's a business model. The question is, do they have a big enough goal? In Bun's case, it's every piece of JavaScript ever executed should happen inside Bun.
Speaker 2:That's a really big goal. I can see that. I can see that potentially. Same with Void Zero, like their goal is, all JavaScript builds, anything like pre runtime, building, linting, whatever, that should all run through their tooling.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And if they get to that level, there's probably gonna be interesting business models that open up. It's gonna be hard they have to invent them. Like, there's companies like Docker that got to that level and then like really struggled to figure out how to invent the business model. But the moment Docker did find something, they went from like zero to a 100,000,000 ARR in a year. So it's just like that's kind of what venture scale stuff is.
Speaker 2:Like, it's really hard to see business model upfront, but when you crack it, it's like boom. So to be fair, I don't I don't know if this stuff is actually gonna work out. I'm not saying that it will, but yeah, it's just very unclear right now and but that's like just not the question. The question is like, can they actually grow to that level?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I think all that tracks for me if it weren't DevTools. I just feel like the DevTools part Mhmm. Is this I mean, Docker is an example.
Speaker 1:There aren't isn't Docker struggling? Like everybody uses Docker. But doesn't Docker like have all these issues and they have to put all these restrictions because of I mean, the the nature of images and bandwidth is unfortunate. So maybe that's inherent to their type of business or their tool. But are they struggling?
Speaker 1:Did they make it? Because everybody uses Docker.
Speaker 2:I think for a very long time yeah. It's an interesting they're actually a really interesting story for anyone who's want to understand. There's like some write up about their whole business history and it's a if anyone wants to understand this space, it basically captures every type of thing that can happen. So they did the impossible. They made something that like changed the world.
Speaker 2:Like every single, like Docker is massively impactful, Totally changed how we deploy stuff. It's everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. But the immediate winners were incumbents. Google Cloud, AWS. Like, all the all the big cloud just added it.
Speaker 2:They're in a distribution, add Docker support. Docker does not see really a penny of any of that. Yep. So Docker struggled for a long time. And then it seemed like they're about to go under and then they, just really focused on Docker for desktop, I think, which is
Speaker 1:like really weird. I don't really understand it. They like just sold hate it on my Mac. I just hate Docker for desktop. So
Speaker 2:that's why I laughed. And I don't know if it's a good product, but it just it it was just an angle that they could take, that the big clouds would never and that's where they made a bunch of money. Is that like super long term sustainable? I don't know. But they did hit a 100,000,000 ARR with that which justifies, you know, like billion, multi billion dollar valuation.
Speaker 2:So Yeah. Okay. It's it's hard because I just thought that they had to do two things, right? They had to like do the first impossible thing then like somehow capture value dodging all the big giant companies trying to get there before you. And they did, they're always gonna get there before you.
Speaker 2:Even if they get there later, they're just gonna win. Like, Bunn for example, the same situation. Like, if Bunn becomes the default way people do JavaScript, obviously, Google, AWS are gonna add support for it. Mhmm. So it's gonna be tricky.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I agree. It's hard.
Speaker 1:Everywhere the JavaScript runs except for the browser, right?
Speaker 2:Except for
Speaker 1:the So browser, the browser still is this its own thing. But all the back end JavaScript being bunned Yeah. And all the local development tool chain, that's the bun goal.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then we're gonna have ads in our terminal. I'm just saying. We'll see. Then maybe that's not very imaginative of me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, who's to say? Like, like the Void Zero thing, like, the most obvious path for them is, if they are handling all these, like, heavy crazy builds, giant companies need like really really good caching systems and typically pay for them or willing to pay for them.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So they could build like a service that that matches that. Again, I don't know if that's a venture scale thing, but it's like not totally out of the question that there's there's ways that even now we could imagine what they could do. But again, this is not the goal. There's no point in monetizing something that doesn't win when it comes to venture scale. So try to win first.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Try to win. I mean, yeah, that makes sense. I guess I said the DevTools thing and then I forgot SST is also the same situation. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm not saying
Speaker 2:And that's why I know it's like it's I have mixed feelings because it's I know how unlikely and hard and difficult it is and how the I think the problem actually is that everything I just described, I actually don't even know if the founders in this space understand what this is what they signed up for. I technically didn't when I joined SST and I understood this a lot better Yeah. A couple years ago. But yeah, if you don't understand this, then what you're gonna do is like focus on like the business model too early and then it turns out like your product doesn't even win and like the whole thing is a waste of time. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What what we I mean, statmuse is like consumer. It's a sports statistics website, by the way. I was on the bingo card.
Speaker 2:On the bingo?
Speaker 1:Like, we we were pre revenue for like five, six years, something like that. Mhmm. But it's like different because it's a consumer website. And I think It's
Speaker 2:not different. DevTools is like very I would say DevTools is close to b to c companies.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I guess so. Yeah. I guess so. There's a lot of developers.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't know where I was going with that. But like we were it was like very fun to be pre revenue because nobody judged your revenue when you don't have revenue and we could just kinda keep not having revenue. But I feel like it was very predictable that like we're gonna have ads on a website. It's just how it works.
Speaker 1:We have a lot of traffic on our website, now we have ads on the website. We didn't get more creative than that, I guess. Not yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I mean, if it if it works, it works. Yeah. But yeah, exactly. Like, I think there's like a over rotation on it's just I think when you're in when you're observing some of these things, I feel like you get the right conclusion but not really, right?
Speaker 2:So, we had a period of time where there was these like really big blow ups of like overfunded companies that just never had a business model and never made sense. Yeah. And a lot of people witnessed that. So now there's like this thing of like, anytime they see a company saying something like, pre revenue or like, we'll worry about the business model later, they're like, oh Mhmm. It's one of those.
Speaker 2:It's gonna like blow up and fail.
Speaker 1:And DevTools in particular had a lot of money. It was a very hot VC segment. So I think there's also like tangential but not completely the same blowback on DevTool stuff for that reason. Like there's like venture scale across all the industries has its own taint from Is that a word I can say? I I don't know.
Speaker 1:Is that is that a bad word? It's a
Speaker 2:technically a fine word that also has a more intense meaning.
Speaker 1:An urban dictionary meaning? Okay. Yeah. Like venture scale as a term and as a concept was tainted by lots of free money. But then DevTools, if you're a developer, you've kinda like soured on some things about DevTools because of poor usage of venture money or like memeable usage of venture money over the last few years and that still goes on.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's kind of a double whammy when I hear like venture scale dev tools, I just I think of all the negatives of both sides.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not fair though.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's it's it's just easy to remember the negatives and forget the positives because the ones that win become so normal that you like just don't ever think about them that hard. Yeah. Yeah. Again, Docker, venture funded. All the HashiCorp stuff, venture funded.
Speaker 2:Like Ghosty technically wouldn't exist unless Yeah. You know, he had a nice exit where he can kind of focus on that.
Speaker 1:True.
Speaker 2:All the Hashic a lot of the Hashicore stuff is is really great, like like Terraform, a bunch of things like that. So, yeah, it's just that the the ones that are good do the thing that's hard, which is you become invisible because you're just like a default.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And nobody talks about it. Yeah. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Some of this stuff is really crazy. Like we were talking internally yesterday about like, okay, if our growth continues, what will our competition look like? Because we start to eat into places that technically are competitive with companies we aren't competing with today. And it is a funny dynamic where it's only a problem once you start making money, like a lot of money.
Speaker 2:Otherwise, people just look at you as like, oh, that's a cute project. Even if you're growing a ton and become really popular, they'll like not really copy you or try to like stop it. Yeah. So there's a lot of benefit to staying small with your revenue for as long as possible because it catches the competition off guard as we're spending into their markets. Because a big established company is never gonna be like, oh, this like open source project is getting really popular, we need to make sure we clone it.
Speaker 2:They'll just be like, what do you mean? Like, they're not making any money. Why would we waste time on that?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:By the time they see it, by the time it actually starts to impact them, it's like too late. So, yeah, there's a lot of funny dynamics with being pre revenue, some like advantages or low revenue rather.
Speaker 1:Speaking of pre revenue, can you catch me up on the hurricane? There's a hurricane hitting today. Sorry, yes. I'm known for my transitions.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's a it's funny. No. They keep pushing the landfall time further and further. Hurricanes move slow.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think I've caught that.
Speaker 2:Do you know the speed of a hurricane, like, in terms of how fast it travels?
Speaker 1:No. Like, across the ocean?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because you always hear like wind speeds of a 165 miles an hour, but the hurricane itself is moving at like below 10 miles an hour. Are you
Speaker 1:serious? Wow.
Speaker 2:It's so slow.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Does it speed up or slow down when it gets over land?
Speaker 2:So land absorbs a lot of the hurricane's power. You'll see as it hits land, it like weakens. But right now, it's still forecast to hit Tampa. I'm not gonna be affected
Speaker 1:It's like a category four now? I just googled it.
Speaker 2:It went from five to four to five again. They think when it hits, it'll be the three.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. Well, that's better than a five. Right? It goes that direction?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's weird because it's it's almost like binary. There's just a bunch of structures that are still not able to deal with any kind of hurricane. And when they get a direct hit, all those structures are affected.
Speaker 1:It blows my mind actually. Whenever something like this is about to happen and they point out it's been like a hundred years since Tampa's been direct hit. It's like in the Gulf Of Mexico. How is that possible? I feel like hurricanes are like constant in the hurricane season.
Speaker 2:There there's this feeling there's like this feeling I wish I can communicate properly. When you see all these hurricanes flying around, it feels like you're just like it's like it feels like you're playing dodgeball and like the ball is just like flying around you and
Speaker 1:somehow Like, they're you know, not where the bullets are just dodging.
Speaker 2:But it's funny though because like the hurricanes sometimes have crazy pads. Right? Like, this hurricane started in The Gulf which I like didn't even know was a thing. Like, it can start from the left side. Like, what the hell?
Speaker 2:Actually, they
Speaker 1:all came from Is that the right no. I didn't know that didn't happen. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2:That's I mean, I I guess they do.
Speaker 1:I just never
Speaker 2:I don't even know if they're typical. I just never realized that. But, like, the last one, I guess I think it was last year, it was gonna hit Tampa, but then I think it went south and hit Naples. Yeah. It came from the right, like, hooked around and it came back and then hit
Speaker 1:I think I saw that. Yeah. Saw the path of that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it it feels like someone's throwing these, crazy trick shots, like, at The US. The
Speaker 1:the we just had one. Right? The the the Asheville situation's super bad, which is crazy because it's so inland. And it makes me rethink all of my like, I'm safe from hurricanes in the Midwest. Cause like Asheville's in the mid not Midwest, but it's like, I guess it was like a dam situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, it was like over flooding in the mountains, washed out the city basically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. I mean, that that's what's funny. It's like random canals which are like everywhere Yeah. Even if you're not by the like by the coast will just overflow and then cause all the all these problems.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I wanted to look up I feel like there's probably like a list of cities that there's like possibility of catastrophe if a dam breaks. Like cities that are down river from a dam. It's probably way too many. It's kind of like when Katrina happened so so long ago.
Speaker 1:It's like, why do we have cities that like rely on structures to stay out of the sea? Like, what are levees and why did we build them? Why not just not build a city there? Like, why don't we just go out and build the Atlantic Ocean, like, build a big, like, tunnel and be like, here we go. Let's put a city here.
Speaker 1:Why do we do this? I don't understand it. Or did it start out higher above sea level and then it just like the water rose?
Speaker 2:I I I think the reality is historically, there was no possibility for any kind of wealth unless you were a port and you could tap into trade. To every major city just on the water and now there's like a side effect of that is you're exposed to any kind of water natural disaster.
Speaker 1:Is that why we're so poor in the Ozarks? There's no ports here. Turns out
Speaker 2:we're all think yeah.
Speaker 1:Like Maybe.
Speaker 2:What major city is
Speaker 1:Like wealthy?
Speaker 2:And then Like, Teddy Lee's Chicago, but chick isn't Chicago
Speaker 1:Chicago's all Chicago has a port. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the Great Lakes, so they I
Speaker 2:don't know. But like, didn't they use that to trade with like don't know. I'm some shit up.
Speaker 1:Stirrup from Canada or something. Maple syrup.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:What's what's the scenario?
Speaker 2:Where like everybody was like stopping around in the Canadian woods like trapping Yeah. Raccoons and shit like
Speaker 1:Oh, that's funny. Yeah. I guess they probably do have ports in Chicago. I mean, why would they be on the water otherwise? Like, what's the point?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And even things like Philadelphia, like it's on the river so they could Yeah. Trade They can head into the
Speaker 1:Yeah. That makes sense. I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 2:That said, humans, I've always felt the thing you were saying, like, why did we establish a thing there? I feel this way about the whole earth in general. Like, if you look at the whole earth, there's clearly places that are way nicer to live, where the food's more abundant. Why are a bunch of humans in the middle of the desert? Like, how did
Speaker 1:Why why is Canada populated at all? Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's Why are
Speaker 1:there people in Canada? I don't understand.
Speaker 2:We're just like, we'll live anywhere and we'll just make it work. We're not people aren't It really
Speaker 1:is true. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, some people just want their space, I guess. Like, they just like don't want to be where everybody else is.
Speaker 2:Even then, like, it's crazy to me that like, there's so many these crazy cities in The Middle East. Oh, I guess there's oil there now, which is what
Speaker 1:Oh, Oil.
Speaker 2:Built those those cities. But but even historically, right? Like, I mean, all the ancient cities I isn't like the original, like, Mesopotamia? Is that like actually, no, that was on a river, does that make sense? But yeah, I just feel like there's like the desert case, but then there's also like the really cold, like Scandinavian, like, area.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What did they do Why did
Speaker 2:you guys go all the way up there? Yeah. Who are you following?
Speaker 1:Like Yaks or something? Yeah. I I started playing Risk with my nine year old. We we got it out. Grandma still had it.
Speaker 1:My mom. Risk is so fun. Have you played Risk in a long time? Because it's so fun.
Speaker 2:Is it fun one on one?
Speaker 1:Not as fun, but I didn't know this. I growing up, we played one on one all the time. Me and actually, me and my co founder of Statmuse, we grew up together. And we played Risk all the time and I'm pretty sure we played one on one all the time. Never did this.
Speaker 1:But there's like a neutral you set like neutral armies up. There's like a third player but like you both control it. That's how you play one on one and it makes it better. That's how me and my son have been playing. We gotta talk the other two into it though.
Speaker 1:My my my other son and my wife need to just play with us because that would be more fun. But he's five, so he's probably gonna be into Yeah. It's I think
Speaker 2:it's challenging. But your your wife is a little over
Speaker 1:wanna control a whole continent. Yeah. My wife is old enough. Yeah. We could just stay up late with my nine year old.
Speaker 1:That'd be fun. Yeah. Risk is great. Old board games. Good stuff.
Speaker 1:Who is it that's really into board is Chris into board games? Did I make that up? Somebody Oh, we talked to Matt
Speaker 2:met a lot of people recently that are super into board games.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I wanna get
Speaker 2:more into it. I actually have one here that I borrowed that I need to play.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, because we go to Target and all of them are garbage. Like, you just look at the wall of them, they're all bad.
Speaker 2:That's what's so crazy. Like, I don't know why I never put this together. It's like all the ones that we know of Like, Risk, like Risk is fun, but it's not like someone, like, tried really, really hard to come up with, like, the coolest thing ever. And there's like a whole world of that of people that have tried that hard.
Speaker 1:Like they figured out Yeah. How to make really good board games.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like there's board games that take like an hour to set up and you play over several days and you need to like leave it.
Speaker 1:It's crazy. Like Monopoly? But like I've never finished the game of Monopoly. You have it more fast. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Monopoly, I feel like, literally, I think it's actually a very bad game and the only thing it has going for it is like the money feels so cool and fun.
Speaker 1:And I
Speaker 2:think that's like the only reason anyone is ever like, oh, let's get Monopoly or let's play Monopoly. But the game actually
Speaker 1:Driven by Yeah. No, I get that. The game of life also has money. Is it it's not really as popular. I do feel like there's a certain like lore around Monopoly or it's just like embedded enough into the pop culture.
Speaker 1:Oddly enough, they apparently knew what they're doing when they did the McDonald's stuff. Cause I feel like I like Monopoly more because of my memories of peeling out those stickers off McDonald's cups. You know what I'm talking about? Like collecting Yeah. Like was that Monopoly like paying McDonald's I guess to be That's
Speaker 2:a really good question.
Speaker 1:Like some promotion? How how did that work? They they just were trying to like get I
Speaker 2:McDonald's might have played Monopoly. Paid Monopoly.
Speaker 1:Paid Monopoly for the rights? See, it's interesting because that could go either way. Like, when it comes to a deal like that, like, could see either side benefiting like McDonald's.
Speaker 2:But who has like, Monopoly is not gonna move more. Like
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. It doesn't make sense that they would advertise on McDonald's cups, like, so people would buy Monopoly. Because everybody owns Monopoly. Well, that's a great point. Like, what does they well, they have nothing to gain.
Speaker 1:They are just IP. But that's interesting to think of Monopoly as IP as like
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:Marvel characters. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Like That is true.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, McDonald's is like, hey, you know what would give us some credibility? Monopoly. That's just funny. And who owns Monopoly?
Speaker 1:I guess Hasbro or something? Like there's this one company that owns all the board games?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 1:Like who did did like a startup create Monopoly and then sell the Hasbro? Like how's that work?
Speaker 2:Hasbro has owned the rights to Monopoly since '91 when it acquired Parker Brothers, the maker of the game.
Speaker 1:Parker Brothers? I've heard of this. I just started typing in like a live code playground, Parker Brothers.
Speaker 2:I just saw a picture of the Monopoly board and just like it just brought back the memories.
Speaker 1:Have you ever played Monopoly Go?
Speaker 2:Oh, is it like a mix of
Speaker 1:It's like a card game. It's like a shorter version of Monopoly. It's kinda got the feel of Monopoly, it's like oh, that just reminded me it's like the Apple Store ad just popped up. Have you ever played like digital Monopoly? That's fun because it's like animated and there's like the car is driving and like blowing exhaust and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Good times. There's like a million different Monopolies like every so their licensing IP there's just so much money flowing around when it comes to Monopoly. Like, Monopoly apparently is paying Harry Potter, the franchise, to like get rights to their that's so interesting to me.
Speaker 2:It must be like a rev share though.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because like Harry Potter benefits from it, I guess. But does I don't know. With something like Harry Potter, like they're on everything. Do they need more exposure?
Speaker 2:No. No. I think it's just ways to sell more like if I own Harry Potter the brand, I'm just gonna like partner with every single product maker to slap my shit
Speaker 1:on that, you know? Sell more stuff. Do you ever think about that though? Like, you're you're what's her name? Who's the lady that wrote Harry Potter?
Speaker 2:JK Rowling.
Speaker 1:Yes. You're JK Rowling. I'm assuming she owns most of the Harry Potter enterprises or whatever. I don't know. Maybe she has shareholders now.
Speaker 1:But like she has this giant empire that is Harry Potter and she's made more money than she could ever need or spend. Do you think she like thinks about like, oh, if we move into China with this stupid product, we could sell, you know, like 10,000,000 next quarter. Does she care like at this point? Who cares at this point like how much product they move?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It it must just be like the Disney machine that's just like Yeah. She's on now really so good at consumer products.
Speaker 1:You know what Disney own Harry Potter? No. They don't own Harry Potter. They bought everything else.
Speaker 2:Nothing. Marvel, Lucasfilm. I'm pretty sure Disney is like their publisher or would like the equivalent because like
Speaker 1:Oh, jeez. So complicated.
Speaker 2:Oh, is it Universal?
Speaker 1:Oh, yes. Because Universal Studios because they
Speaker 2:have they have the they have the it's Universal. It's not a Yeah. Which is baseline because that's that's who did the movies.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think so.
Speaker 2:So they are remaking Harry Potter as a HBO TV show and
Speaker 1:We're old enough to remake Harry Potter?
Speaker 2:I really don't see how this is a good idea because the original Different actors. Harry Potter movies Yes, different actors.
Speaker 1:Oh, don't do this.
Speaker 2:Movies were very good. You can watch them today and they don't feel outdated. So I can show them to someone new and they don't feel outdated.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:And I feel like this can really only be worse.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's How's it gonna
Speaker 2:a story. And I don't want like, we've we've all seen this story like a billion times already.
Speaker 1:Why do this? This is like when there's a new Spider Man. Every time I hear there's a new Spider Man, know we've talked about this on the podcast at some point. Because every time I hear there's a new Spider Man, it's like, I don't know if it's a continuation of some story or they're like going back to the first one again. This is like every ten years.
Speaker 1:It's not they don't wait that long.
Speaker 2:They're like I know.
Speaker 1:New Spider Man. It's the new actor that everybody knows. And like, look, we did it again. I don't get the whole like it it really people make fun of Hollywood for like not coming up with new stuff, but it really is true. Like, they really just keep remaking the same stuff and it's kind of cringe.
Speaker 1:I just used the old cringe in a sentence. That was awesome.
Speaker 2:I I mean, I've been thinking about this a bit and I've seen some people on Hollywood talk about it and it's so funny. It's like the same thing that happens in business, which is eventually organizations just become crazy risk averse to an irrational degree, right? So if I'm someone that's gonna produce I work at a movie studio, I'm gonna produce a movie. If it fails, that looks really bad on me. If I attach it to some existing IP, nobody could say that it was a bad decision.
Speaker 2:Because like
Speaker 1:that Mhmm.
Speaker 2:There's like a safety there's like a perceived safety net of like, well, I wasn't taking some crazy risk, I was just like betting on a sure thing, you
Speaker 1:know? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So there's been so many cases that I've heard of where there will be a script, brand new concept, new script. Yeah. They will take the script and attach it randomly to some existing thing just so it feels like more derisked.
Speaker 1:So dumb. I mean, know I'm sure I do it too. It's probably like some human nature thing. In the right situation, I would do the exact same thing. But it just makes your soul die a little bit.
Speaker 1:You just want people like it makes us I think that's why we look up to the people who've taken huge risks. It's like Yeah. Even if they have flaws and you don't like that person, like, there's something about, I don't know, real artists, you know, people who step out there. This just reminded me of a thing in the NFL. It this like, this whole idea of just avoiding risk at all cost even at the detriment.
Speaker 1:Like the the New York Jets, they're like doing poorly. They just fired their coach. They're kinda in the news. But before they fired the coach, it's like this year, they're all in on this this organization, like the GM and the head coach. If they don't win this year, if they don't do well, they're all gonna get fired.
Speaker 1:They all know they're losing their jobs. So they all just like go for broke and they hire all these really old people with bad injury history. And it's like everybody knows this is not best for the New York Jets for the next five years, but it's like all that matters is the people making the decisions are trying to keep their job this year. So it's like, what that that reminds me of something we've talked about where it's like every the people who make the decision can just completely jeopardize the future because it only matters to them right now. Is it monetary policy?
Speaker 1:What is it? We've talked about this.
Speaker 2:There's something yeah. I mean, I feel this comes up this comes up a lot. Yeah. It's super annoying and I feel like this is happening like, brought up football. I feel like it's happening everywhere where we're just in this like weird phase of it's like really short term minded and you would think that looks like craziness, but it actually looks very boring.
Speaker 2:You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's like Yeah. It's very boring.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like this Yeah. The thing with Hollywood is like churning out sequels and stuff. There has to be some like corrective thing that kicks in. Like at some point, do these movies just start doing bad or is it like
Speaker 1:Haven't haven't the Marvel movies started doing
Speaker 2:Yes. They're definitely past their peak, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, there is a saturation point where people are like, you know what, I don't care about Ant Man seven. Like, I'm I'm I'm done with the story. I don't care. Ant Man was kind of a dumb character.
Speaker 2:But do you see what they're doing? No. And I I will say I this worked on me. Oh, no. So they're like like their their like headline thing is like the Avengers movies, right?
Speaker 2:And that series ended with like all the famous actors from the last ten years, like, their stories ending and, like, their contracts basically. So that's why they're kind of struggling now.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But they're making the next series of Avenger movies and the main bad guy in it who's playing it, Robert Downey Junior. They just like brought him back as He different
Speaker 1:Iron Man. Wait.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:He's gonna play the villain? Yeah. Is it like Iron Man became the villain or it's like, no, just ignore the fact that
Speaker 2:this is Robert Barry. It could be it could be like in a different dimension like Tony Stark want that or it could just be he's a totally different person. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:Like at some Comic Con, a bunch of these masked people showed up on stage and the one guy in the front removed his mask and it was Robert Downey Jr. Everyone went nuts and I'm like, yeah, like this is like another flavor of this rebooting thing where they're rebooting the actor, you know.
Speaker 1:It's so nuts to me. I don't know. I wanna care about something. I wanna like be into something that's worth being into, like, when it comes to media. I haven't watched stuff in forever.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We we've really struggled too. There is still some good stuff and even within the zone of like, they're just like doing the IP thing. Have you seen The Last of Us?
Speaker 1:No. I've heard of I think I've
Speaker 2:heard of The Last of Us was a really good video game, like, narrative narratively. It was like one of the best narratives in
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Any video game ever and they made two games. And HBO made a TV show. They did one season of the first game and now the second season is about to come out, I think, at the beginning of next year.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Like, phenomenally good. Like, really,
Speaker 1:really Give me give me, like, the TLDR, like, what what's the setting? Is it sci fi?
Speaker 2:It's a classic, like, post apocalyptic thing, like, some kind of in this case, it wasn't a virus, it was
Speaker 1:like a fungus and it like
Speaker 2:destroyed society. There's some people that are surviving. And if you get even scratched or something, you get you like turn into like this crazy zombie thing.
Speaker 1:Oh, jeez.
Speaker 2:And they they there's this girl that got scratched so everyone's like, you're fucked and they usually just kill them right away but for a reason they didn't kill her and she started to recover. So the story is this really reluctant, guy who's like, kinda like a he lost his own daughter like, way at the beginning, right when everything was going down
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:In a really, like, crazy way. And he's, like, reluctantly agreeing to take this girl to some research facility, like, across the country. So they travel across the country. And it's, like, some of the most intense, like hard to watch situations that they like run into. And the acting is amazing, like everything is done really really well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that's technically just like this IP shuffling thing, but they did a really good job with it, which
Speaker 1:Well, yeah. I guess it's not inherently bad to use IP. But like, are TV series better than movies now? Is it like I feel like the good stuff people talk about are like HBO TV series. They're not movies anymore.
Speaker 1:Do they replace because they're all competing for the same attention. Right? Like, I don't view them differently. If you have two hours to watch something, you could watch two episodes of a series or you could watch a movie. What's the difference?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think the production quality of TVs have gone up TVs TV shows have gone up a lot. Because that
Speaker 1:was glaring like twenty years ago or ten years ago or whatever, like TV series being so much lower budget. Like the effects, everything about them, they were limited. They had to almost be like a drama to be any good. Yeah. But that's changed?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's changed a lot and it feels like the gap is closed. But if you actually like because there's been some things that have been even like an animated movie an animated TV show that gets a movie, you're like, oh, what's the difference? It's just like a two hour long episode. But they actually look Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's still like a gap if you like pay attention. But like obviously the gap gap is closing. But I mean now there's some shows, mostly actually failures that, like their budgets are like $30,000,000 an episode. If that Oh, episode is one hour, that's roughly the same budget as like a $100,000,000 movie. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, the budgets are are are closing in. But they're still really good movies. I still think the movie side, they're still really good ones. There's just a lot of junk. It's junk on both sides, I think.
Speaker 1:That reminds me. So we still have like a family movie night. I haven't watched any movies just on my own that were good in a while. But we watch like we go back through the Pixar catalog and all that. We just went through all the Toy Stories and I have something to say about Yes.
Speaker 1:Like revisionist history here going back to Toy Story one all the way through them. I don't know if you realize how so I've read like the Creativity Inc. Have you listened or read that book about Pixar?
Speaker 2:I know the stories of I like know a bunch of stories from that book. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the first Toy Story, not very good. I like not just that they weren't there technologically with the graphics. I I remembered I thought like Pixar came on the scene just amazing at the storytelling, all that stuff. It wasn't until like Toy Story three, think it was three, the one where they go to the daycare Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That like the story was like maybe it just resonated with me and Casey because we have kids. But it was like heartstrings, all the stuff you think about Pixar now where they're so good at like emotional storytelling. The first two, not so much. It's like kids play with toys. I can
Speaker 2:see that. Yeah. Toy Story three came out the month that I graduated high school.
Speaker 1:Really? Oh, your parents just ripped their heart out and stomped on it. Because that's like
Speaker 2:the whole story is
Speaker 1:he's going off to college and
Speaker 2:Even for us as like it was really intense even just for like
Speaker 1:Oh, for the kids, like for high schoolers. High schoolers.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was really
Speaker 1:But I feel like that they went several years there, those first couple where I don't feel like they had the Pixar magic. Maybe maybe they did. Maybe I'm just too critical or I didn't resonate with the stories, but it didn't feel nearly as Pixar as the modern Pixar movie.
Speaker 2:I think they definitely got better at that. I think it's similar to video games where it was such a technological effort at first that like also executing on narrative on top of that was really difficult. But then you've seen over time that they're hitting like like video games are hitting like movie levels of like narrative and acting and I think that probably similarly happened to the animated stuff. Have you noticed that every Pixar movie and a lot of kids movies, the plot is we got lost, we gotta get home. That's what the plot of so many kids Yeah.
Speaker 1:That reminds me of Homeward Bound. Do you remember those
Speaker 2:like Yeah. Talking animals. Yep. Yep.
Speaker 1:That That was
Speaker 2:the Finding Nemo, like, the
Speaker 1:same exact story. Wow.
Speaker 2:Is. Yeah. And obviously, it's the stuff that happens in between is different, but the rough you start off with
Speaker 1:Yeah, the you're
Speaker 2:home, some some mistake happens, you're not home,
Speaker 1:then you have to
Speaker 2:get back home. Yeah. Well, Home Alone is Home Alone's fine because that's a reverse.
Speaker 1:Oh, he was home. Well, not the New York one. He was not where he was he was away. He wanted to get back home. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah. No. No. No.
Speaker 1:There's something universal about that, I guess. We're just trying to find our way back home. That I tried to sound deep there but that just sounded really cheesy.
Speaker 2:No. Wait, what else? I got I'm looking at the Pixar movie. It's Coco. Again, he gets lost in the Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Afterlife and he has to get back home. Ratatouille is different. You seen Ratatouille? No. Ratatouille is very good.
Speaker 2:It's very,
Speaker 1:very Is it cooking cooking mice or
Speaker 2:rats? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's actually Is it Pixar?
Speaker 2:Really good.
Speaker 1:Yes. Okay. I need to go through all the Pixar movies. Just
Speaker 2:the little girl
Speaker 1:Seen I've that gets lost
Speaker 2:in the monster role and has to get back home.
Speaker 1:It literally is the plot of every movie. Yeah. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:Was it the plot of Up two? Like, they also get lost in
Speaker 1:the house at Up two? There's one that I'm trying to
Speaker 2:remember It was
Speaker 1:a lot but I know it's so painful.
Speaker 2:Up up you just can't watch. Could I couldn't watch it.
Speaker 1:It It
Speaker 2:was hard as a kid and then now I'm
Speaker 1:getting sad just thinking about it. Yeah. Ugh. Ugh. The mortality.
Speaker 1:Ugh. Why'd you have to remind me? I just don't even know that that movie exists. That was Pixar two, Stinking Pixar. Just crushing Oliver.
Speaker 2:Cars. Also, he gets lost and he has to get back.
Speaker 1:So I can't tell Teej this. I've just not been able to say I've never seen Cars. And I know Teej just like has a lot of cars in his orbit and I've just I've never seen it. I have nothing to say. I don't know anything about You
Speaker 2:should definitely watch the first one. It's a it's a classic. Good. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just forget all these franchises are Pixar. They really are the best at this. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think the thing that they do great is it's a kid's movie that's really entertaining as an adult. So, it's truly like a family movie. It's like there's like two
Speaker 1:Two things going on at once.
Speaker 2:Like two storylines, yeah. Yeah. And that way you're like not bored as an adult, you know?
Speaker 1:Yep. Oh, Inside Out, another one. I don't know if you saw the latest Inside Out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did. Yeah. Those movies are fun. I like I think that metaphor is brilliant and just leads to like
Speaker 1:a lot
Speaker 2:of really funny funny things that can I do with
Speaker 1:will say, we we watched that one and I couldn't help but notice that I am anxiety? Like, Casey and I talked about this, it's like, oh, geez. I I'm watching that movie the first half and I didn't realize like, oh, this is bad. You don't wanna be like this little orange person. I was like, this is yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I agree. You should definitely think through all this stuff. That's probably wise. Yes. I didn't realize like, she's she's kind of the bad guy.
Speaker 1:Like, oh, this is not good. And then it was like, oh, I let that little person run my brain and I shouldn't. Got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's
Speaker 1:the the moral of the story.
Speaker 2:Have you noticed that when they zoom into their parents brains that a different emotion leads them?
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't notice.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like like for for the main character is Joy, but then the dad it's anger and then for the mom it's sadness or like whatever. Interesting.
Speaker 1:Like the Joy is not the default leader. That's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I didn't The catch
Speaker 2:metaphor is so good. They they can like think through all these little things. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Love I love those movies. They're really brilliant. And the core memories, all that stuff. I feel like I've learned stuff about our brain from watching those movies somehow.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Personality Islands. Okay. I really have to pee. We also really need to record two episodes today.
Speaker 1:I'm just
Speaker 2:gonna pull
Speaker 1:the curtain. Yeah. We're gonna pull the curtain back. We're gonna talk again immediately after this and pretend like it's a new episode, a new week. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But they won't get
Speaker 2:to hear it till next week.
Speaker 1:That's right. We're just gonna string this up. Yeah. This one has a to be continued.
Speaker 2:So To be continued.
Speaker 1:This story is to be continued. Okay. Be right back. Alright.
